[Report] Canucks restructuring scouting department

[Gaudette Celly]

4 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I heard Sid, Alf & Tomatosaucy(Devil's advocate) might get pilfered from CDC!

Half of CDC would be more qualified than JD Burke.

[Gaudette Celly]

dp

Edited July 5, 2019 by Hutton Wink

[Gaudette Celly]

TP!

Edited July 5, 2019 by Hutton Wink

[bigbadcanucks]

Need to preface this by saying that I like Jim Benning. 

 

But, I believe he's over-rated on his amateur drafting.  To date, under his watch, the team has drafted 43 players. Of those 43 players, 11 players have played games in the NHL (and this includes Quinn Hughes' 5 games, Michael Dipietro's 1 game, and Guillaume Brisebois' 8 games).  Jared McCann and Gustav Forsling's 366 games have been with other organizations.

 

There's been a lot of wasted picks - Neill, Tate, Stewart, Abols, Pettit, Zhukenov, Candella, Stukel, and Brassard to name a few.

 

So a few changes to the amateur scouting team is pretty much a good thing.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Scott Walker now him.  It seems like other teams are noticing the success of our drafting style and probably wants information on what we do so they are hiring our guys.

 

Like, lets be honest, in the past have this ever happened? absolutely not. teams are taking notice on our scouting success.

[aqua59]

16 hours ago, Alflives said:

Is this an Aquilini ordered penny pinching move?  Benning said some guys will be taking on more responsibility.  Add that to JB doing double duty, and ???  

I love the team JB has built, but something in me doesn’t trust our owner.  Tell me I’m wrong, and I’m just an old man barking at the moon.  

I believe they were courted elsewhere.

[Dazzle]

18 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Need to preface this by saying that I like Jim Benning. 

 

But, I believe he's over-rated on his amateur drafting.  To date, under his watch, the team has drafted 43 players. Of those 43 players, 11 players have played games in the NHL (and this includes Quinn Hughes' 5 games, Michael Dipietro's 1 game, and Guillaume Brisebois' 8 games).  Jared McCann and Gustav Forsling's 366 games have been with other organizations.

 

There's been a lot of wasted picks - Neill, Tate, Stewart, Abols, Pettit, Zhukenov, Candella, Stukel, and Brassard to name a few.

 

So a few changes to the amateur scouting team is pretty much a good thing.

Are you serious? 25 percent success rate is really good. Of course it can get better. Look around the NHl, you'll notice that all teams have misses.  

[oldnews]

On 7/4/2019 at 3:46 PM, Alflives said:

Is this an Aquilini ordered penny pinching move?  Benning said some guys will be taking on more responsibility.  Add that to JB doing double duty, and ???  

I love the team JB has built, but something in me doesn’t trust our owner.  Tell me I’m wrong, and I’m just an old man barking at the moon.  

 

On 7/4/2019 at 3:50 PM, BPA said:

Quite possible.  As with any business, you have to balance the books.  Cut where you can to maintain a profit.  Maybe this is a pre-cursor to send LE down to Utica.  LE will still be paid $6M in Utica but only relieving the Canucks of $1M in cap space (what I heard on the radio).

 

anyone read the article?

[oldnews]

23 hours ago, mayor MCcheese said:

Pro scouting is the department that needs a restructuring. I'd say a complete purging actually.

who are the Canucks pro scouts?   who needs to go?

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

anyone read the article?

Read, what’s that?  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

....and Ron Delorme lives another day.

 

Great Canuck....gave it all every night & took on the league heavyweights even if it meant getting punched out.  But as an amateur scout?  Needs to be moved into another place in the organization.

[Fanuck]

26 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

....and Ron Delorme lives another day.

 

Great Canuck....gave it all every night & took on the league heavyweights even if it meant getting punched out.  But as an amateur scout?  Needs to be moved into another place in the organization.

I think it was discussed elsewhere here but wasn't he the one who initially put Elias on JB's radar as our priority pick that Year?   Nobody else was high on him but Delorme insisted their scouting group and senior management look closely at him.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I think it was discussed elsewhere here but wasn't he the one who initially put Elias on JB's radar as our priority pick that Year?   Nobody else was high on him but Delorme insisted their scouting group and senior management look closely at him.

I would think Gradin would've been the guy scouting him extensively?  Isn't Gradin the European scout and Delorme realm Western Canada?  Gradin was the guy that convinced Burke to go after the Sedins.  Scouted Ohlund & Edler.  

Edited July 6, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Fanuck]

12 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I would think Gradin would've been the guy scouting him extensively?  Isn't Gradin the European scout and Delorme realm Western Canada?  Gradin was the guy that convinced Burke to go after the Sedins.  Scouted Ohlund & Edler.  

It would indeed make sense that Gradin initially scouted Elias, but in this article JB himself gives credit to Delorme for pushing the organization in favor of selecting Elias.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-petterssons-smarts-skill-and-will-became-perfect-package-for-canucks

 

 

Quote

Quote

 

It was the same story when chief amateur scout Ron Delorme and director of amateur scouting Judd Brackett saw Pettersson do his thing. It got to the point where Delorme was adamant the slick Swede had to be on top of the club’s draft board.

 

“Ronnie saw him early and was a loud voice for him right from the start — even before any of us saw him,” recalled Benning. “He was in my office and said: ‘We’ve really got to watch this guy.’ He loved his skill and hockey sense.”

 

 

 

 

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Are you serious? 25 percent success rate is really good. Of course it can get better. Look around the NHl, you'll notice that all teams have misses.  

That's true...can't argue that point.  The numbers could very well improve with the potential emergence of Madden, Lockwood, Woo, Podkolzin, Juolevi, Lind, Gadjovich, Rathbone, etc.  Having said that, I do see some misses with the mid to later picks, and taking out players like Brisebois and DiPietro bring the success rate closer to 20%, which I suppose is still pretty good. 

 

I would also say that McCann and Forsling plying their trade for different NHL teams is also a miss, though they're misses for a different reason than "over-rated" drafting skills/results that I have attributed to Jim Benning.

 

Like I said in the original post, I am a Jim Benning fan (like most everyone else, love the Pettersson, Hughes and Podkolzin picks), and hate to that guy, but would you rather have:

 

Tkachuk over Juolevi?

Aho over Boeser? - this one is a toss up

Point or Pasternak over Virtanen and McCann?

 

And yes, lots of other GMs passed picking those guys that Calgary, Carolina, Tampa Bay and Boston picked.

[McBackup]

54 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

 

Aho over Boeser? - this one is a toss up

 

That ones not really a comparable. Boeser was a homerun at 23 and would be top 10 in a redraft today. Aho was a second rounder which means to some extent everyone passed on him. 

 

Picking Brock at 23 is not at all a strike against Benning's record.

[CanuckGAME]

15 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

....and Ron Delorme lives another day.

 

Great Canuck....gave it all every night & took on the league heavyweights even if it meant getting punched out.  But as an amateur scout?  Needs to be moved into another place in the organization.

People keep trying to dirty Ronnie's name around here with nothing to base it off of.  See these types of comments from time to time.

 

Do you go on the road with him on his scouting assignments?  Are you in the room where the assessments take place?  How else can the conclusion be made that he is a problem if you have never been in a position to see his work 1st hand?

 

I'll trust the guys who have been working beside him for the past 20 years and havent had a problem with the job he does.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

31 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

People keep trying to dirty Ronnie's name around here with nothing to base it off of.  See these types of comments from time to time.

 

Do you go on the road with him on his scouting assignments?  Are you in the room where the assessments take place?  How else can the conclusion be made that he is a problem if you have never been in a position to see his work 1st hand?

 

I'll trust the guys who have been working beside him for the past 20 years and havent had a problem with the job he does.

How did I dirty his name?  I gave him his due as a player.  He as in charge of amateur scouting for Western Canada for several decades.  It’s a result oriented business.  I think Grabner & Sopel  were the only guys this team drafted from this region that turned into a decent NHLer.  Some of it requires an element of luck of which we’ve had never none.

 

Gillis trusting the scouting staff instead of making changes (he didn’t start until it was too late...he himself said so) led to him being fired.  Benning overhauled the staff further. 

 

In in any event, this is just my opinion.  I’ll let the drafting under Gillis speak for themselves.

Edited July 6, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[WeneedLumme]

On July 5, 2019 at 10:35 PM, Bitter Melon said:

That ones not really a comparable. Boeser was a homerun at 23 and would be top 10 in a redraft today. Aho was a second rounder which means to some extent everyone passed on him. 

 

Picking Brock at 23 is not at all a strike against Benning's record.

Absolutely. It would be really simpleminded to criticize the choice of Brock at 23, even if one or two of the couple of hundred players picked after him turned out better. 

[thundernuts]

On 7/6/2019 at 11:34 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

How did I dirty his name?  I gave him his due as a player.  He as in charge of amateur scouting for Western Canada for several decades.  It’s a result oriented business.  I think Grabner & Sopel  were the only guys this team drafted from this region that turned into a decent NHLer.  Some of it requires an element of luck of which we’ve had never none.

 

Gillis trusting the scouting staff instead of making changes (he didn’t start until it was too late...he himself said so) led to him being fired.  Benning overhauled the staff further. 

 

In in any event, this is just my opinion.  I’ll let the drafting under Gillis speak for themselves.

My understanding is that Delorme’s suggestions weren’t always followed by Burke, Nonis, and Gillis, (especially in the early rounds were the GM’s wanted to choose their guys) and that he has survived multiple GM changes because his scouting reports have supported this.