Why can't the Canucks develop a pwf?

[JAVA-1]

5 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Power forward culture is dying.  The NHL is getting faster and smaller.  Its biggest problem is that it is not getting safer.  And no, self-policing isn't going to become a thing again.  A proper reffing protocol and a proper disciplinary system can make the NHL an exciting, clean sport.  We are not there yet.

I think the major problem is the league wants fast entertaining hockey for the regular season...great for small skilled and fast players... but when it comes to the playoffs the league goes back to the old style of hockey which doesn't work for many of the smaller players and requires you to have pwf's or even bigger tougher players to advance. The NHL needs to pick one style and go with it. I prefer fast skilled hockey and the rules are there for it. Quit letting the rules be subjective and enforce them consistently and the players will adapt, they are smart enough and if not they are out of work. We agree on the reffing and as far as the joke of a disciplinary system that needs to remove the old boys club and get a totally unbiased panel in there, one that maybe has autonomy from the league so it can't be manipulated. Perhaps one that is even payed for and run by the NHLPA or a panel run and paid for by both the NHL and NHLPA.

[Ghostsof1915]

Power Forward means different things to different people. 

 

Matthew Tkachuk is an 1" taller and about 20 lbs lighter than Jake. 

But he produces. He always had more points in junior than Jake. 

 

Maybe the 45 goal season Jake had in junior was an anomaly, not the rule. 

Jake is almost 23. I disagree with critics who bitch about his Hockey IQ. 

Jake at least has learned how to play defensively, something that Kassian never could do. 

 

Jake's real problem is he was drafted 6th overall. If he was a second round pick, no one would be batting an eye. 

At least unlike some of the Canucks top 10 draft picks, he's at least playing NHL games. And improving year to year. 

[CanuckinEdm]

Kesler, was a borderline PFW.

[-DLC-]

8 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

Due to this teams complete refusal to sign multiple REAL hard nosed player. It's the culture. Look at the teams of the 2000's. That was the last time this team had a core group of tougher guys that were always willing and stood up for everyone. 

 

Sestito tried, but he was all by himself. The same can be said for Guddy. One guy isn't enough. It needs to be a couple of surrounding bodies throughout the line up that create that culture. 

I do agree, to some degree, that the entire team has to have a leave it all out there mentality.  But I also feel that there are natural tendencies that competitive athletes have (or don't)...some are aggressive by nature and others just aren't.  You can work on eliminating the fear that often is associated with that, but I find the guys like Bert just have a natural chip on their shoulder and that likely wasn't "developed" through the team.  You can't instill it, it has to come from self.    It's an attitude.

So my personal feeling is that's the starting point...if a guy has those natural tendencies or shows that he loves to play that kind of game (I feel Jake does), then you can develop him into more of a "power" forward.  The building blocks are in place.  But you can't just "make" guys power forwards or adopt that "style"....it comes from within.

I love that Petey demonstrates that fight for the puck drive and determination.  No quit.  I can see others trying to emulate that and the real "power" players will rise to the top.  He is not, but he plays like he is.

I have not given up on Jake in that role...I think he loves it and has been conflicted with trying to dance the fine line of being disciplined (not in the doghouse) and having fun/letting loose.  I really feel he's one of those guys who could if given the green light over time and as he matures.  Guys who can one arm the puck as they drive the net while warding off defenders.  Takes strength, balance AND determination that says "no you don't".  Jake still seems guarded to me...unsure of what game he should be playing.  Let that guard down and then see what happens.  Is that team culture?  Maybe you're right...but I feel it is shifting at least.  The more I talk, the more I'm talking myself into agreeing with you.  LOL.

Bert believes in Jake as a potential PW, and so I'm taking his opinion in that as someone who's been there, done that.

[-DLC-]

30 minutes ago, CanuckinEdm said:

Kesler, was a borderline PFW.

Nah, I feel he was one.  Completely.

[BPA]

What I saw of Jake's game is that he tends to circle around the net instead of leaning in and drive to the net.  He needs to be a bull in a China shop.  Good things happen when you go to the net. 

 

He often passes back to the D.  He really needs to be more of a net presence.

Edited July 5, 2019 by BPA

[wildcam]

I sure like the J.T Miller signing 5.3 million solid top 6 forward potential 55-60 points 21-25 G,  playing with Bo or Pettersson

Hayes signed 7million Dollar contract he averages 55 points..

I think Jake will have a solid season 22 G - 45 points using speed and playing more aggressive only 22yrs old...

SO gritty players, Roussel, Jake, Beagle, Horvat, Meyers, Leivo, Miller...Leivo ,can handle himself in fighting department.. Big MacEwen 6'3, 215

[stawns]

9 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I look at Jake and see a guy that lacks a team backing him up . Didn't help when your own captain calls you out on a late hit.( sharks game couple years ago)

Never seen teammates call out the rat or E Kane in the press....

Looking at some of the best pwfs they develop with older guys watching out for them in their early years.Jake has taken big strides this past season with rooster around just think if he had a guy like Reeves or Lucic behind him.

The Hawks have traded more Pwfs then we have seen in van.

Boston has great luck with Lucic and Wheeler coming from there. I'll add Neeley took off there too.

So why is it Van has such a hard time or bad luck with pwfs? 

 

 

 

 

 

Had he played a full season he would have been around 20 goals, with 3rd line mins and very minimal pp time.  What's your issue with that?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, JAVA-1 said:

I think the major problem is the league wants fast entertaining hockey for the regular season...great for small skilled and fast players... but when it comes to the playoffs the league goes back to the old style of hockey which doesn't work for many of the smaller players and requires you to have pwf's or even bigger tougher players to advance. The NHL needs to pick one style and go with it. I prefer fast skilled hockey and the rules are there for it. Quit letting the rules be subjective and enforce them consistently and the players will adapt, they are smart enough and if not they are out of work. We agree on the reffing and as far as the joke of a disciplinary system that needs to remove the old boys club and get a totally unbiased panel in there, one that maybe has autonomy from the league so it can't be manipulated. Perhaps one that is even payed for and run by the NHLPA or a panel run and paid for by both the NHL and NHLPA.

The league doesn't "pick" a style.

[DS4quality]

9 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

Due to this teams complete refusal to sign multiple REAL hard nosed player. It's the culture. Look at the teams of the 2000's. That was the last time this team had a core group of tougher guys that were always willing and stood up for everyone. 

 

Sestito tried, but he was all by himself. The same can be said for Guddy. One guy isn't enough. It needs to be a couple of surrounding bodies throughout the line up that create that culture. 

Guddy rarely stood up for anyone. In one week Schenn did more policing than Guddy did in 3 seasons. But I don't fault him for it. I think it's because he was expected to fight, but he'd rather play hockey, which I think a lot more players would rather do. 

That being said,  I hope we see more of a backbone from the team this year.  I hope Jake takes some MMA lessons this summer, you know just in case. 

[spur1]

4 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

Guddy rarely stood up for anyone. In one week Schenn did more policing than Guddy did in 3 seasons. But I don't fault him for it. I think it's because he was expected to fight, but he'd rather play hockey, which I think a lot more players would rather do. 

That being said,  I hope we see more of a backbone from the team this year.  I hope Jake takes some MMA lessons this summer, you know just in case. 

Guddy was a pussycat after his shoulder injury. Hard to fight with a bum shoulder.

Bo is a power forward.

[JAVA-1]

24 minutes ago, stawns said:

The league doesn't "pick" a style.

When you dictate what the refs have to focus on calling during the regular season and then you don't follow through especially in the playoffs.....what would you call it then??

[EdgarM]

5 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

JaKe WaS nEvEr A pOwErFoRwArD 

WAS? Isn't he only 22 year old? 

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, JAVA-1 said:

When you dictate what the refs have to focus on calling during the regular season and then you don't follow through especially in the playoffs.....what would you call it then??

That's always how it's been, nothing has changed.  

[Highstickin]

Are people actually surprised that it takes time for players to develop into NHL PWFs once they leave junior leagues? There is a big difference in puck retrieval when you are going up against a guy that only max 3 years older than you and likely a similar size and experience compared to possibly a 10 year NHL vet. The experience of a d-man alone can make a young PWF look silly if they are not used to the NHL game.

 

I'm also not sure where people are getting the idea that you have to fighter to be a PWF. There are lots of players that play a high energy, physical brand of hockey that makes life difficult for defenceman without having to drop the mitts. IMO, if a player has great board skills, can dig pucks out from below the goal line, and chase down dump ins effectively then they fit the mold of a PWF.

[spur1]

2 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

Are people actually surprised that it takes time for players to develop into NHL PWFs once they leave junior leagues? There is a big difference in puck retrieval when you are going up against a guy that only max 3 years older than you and likely a similar size and experience compared to possibly a 10 year NHL vet. The experience of a d-man alone can make a young PWF look silly if they are not used to the NHL game.

 

I'm also not sure where people are getting the idea that you have to fighter to be a PWF. There are lots of players that play a high energy, physical brand of hockey that makes life difficult for defenceman without having to drop the mitts. IMO, if a player has great board skills, can dig pucks out from below the goal line, and chase down dump ins effectively then they fit the mold of a PWF.

Bo knows 

[RowdyCanuck]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Had he played a full season he would have been around 20 goals, with 3rd line mins and very minimal pp time.  What's your issue with that?

I got no issues with jake. It's just seeing fans complain about how he doesn't hit like he use too well there's a reason why..... I think Jake is getting better ,every season and we've added players to help him play with more edge like Benn rooster and Miller. You need a pack mentality to get the most out of a player like Jake. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

I have not given up on Jake in that role...I think he loves it and has been conflicted with trying to dance the fine line of being disciplined (not in the doghouse) and having fun/letting loose.  I really feel he's one of those guys who could if given the green light over time and as he matures.  Guys who can one arm the puck as they drive the net while warding off defenders.  Takes strength, balance AND determination that says "no you don't".  Jake still seems guarded to me...unsure of what game he should be playing.  Let that guard down and then see what happens.  Is that team culture?  Maybe you're right...but I feel it is shifting at least.  The more I talk, the more I'm talking myself into agreeing with you.  LOL.

Bert believes in Jake as a potential PW, and so I'm taking his opinion in that as someone who's been there, done that.

Deb, I think that Jake’s stumbling block was the fact that as a rookie he came in and was dissuaded from playing physical by our gentle team. 

 

I remember Jake throwing a big hit as a rookie and then having our “tough guy” at the time Prust publicly say that he’s not going to fight for Jake after he throws those hits. 

 

As far as the game getting faster, yes, it’s true for now but the game always goes in cycles and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a departure from that soon. 

[RowdyCanuck]

5 hours ago, CanuckinEdm said:

Kesler, was a borderline PFW.

Could you picture kes and Jake on the same line.... I know a lot of fans don't like Kes but he would have been the perfect role model for the young guys on the team with his win at all cost type style, same with Burr. I wish they would have traded the Sedins instead of those two.

But with kes injuries it kinda worked out for the best we traded him and before anyone brings it up I mean on ice stuff not off ice stuff with kes being a good role model. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by RowdyCanuck

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

13 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Power forward culture is dying.  The NHL is getting faster and smaller.  Its biggest problem is that it is not getting safer.  And no, self-policing isn't going to become a thing again.  A proper reffing protocol and a proper disciplinary system can make the NHL an exciting, clean sport.  We are not there yet.

I don't think it's dying, that's the media and the message the NHL is trying to send, but obviously watching playoffs that is not the case at all that it's dying. The game is definitely becoming more safer for smaller faster players to play in, but it's still not the model you want to build your whole team around. Right now the best model imo is a a good mix of both still, smaller faster and bigger stronger, and if it's a good balance throughout the lineup, then that will help you succeed the most still.