stawns Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, komodo0921 said: The biggest factors that bring down his price are no arbitration rights and no ability to negotiate with other teams. His agent has no negotiating power. Exactly right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanless Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 hour ago, komodo0921 said: The biggest factors that bring down his price are no arbitration rights and no ability to negotiate with other teams. His agent has no negotiating power. I also believe this is because of his first year being burned by his 9 games stint. We should have the same situation with Hughes aswell but not Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Amebushi Posted August 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2019 I don’t understand how these contracts get negotiated anymore. I like Brock as a player on the ice and as a human off it. I want to see this signed as much as anyone. Making comparisons to long term contracts for consistent 30 goal scorers doesn’t make sense. He has not scored 30 goals. He has been injured two seasons in a row. These are facts, not pro-rated belief. I agree and will happily bet a few bucks that he will be a 30 goal scorer but I wouldn’t be paying him 8X8 for that hunch. Injuries do happen and they do affect you later too. Has his wrist really healed? Is his back going to be the same. The argument that he would score X amount more goals if he played 82 games is irrelevant to me. I have scored in 100% of the NHL games I have played in so that makes me an 82 goal scorer, please send me in the direction of my giant payout please. I miss the days where players that show huge potential but have a couple question marks sign short term bridge deals and prove they have it or they don’t. After that they gain arbitration rights and get paid or fall by the wayside based on performance. Not a fan of the new Dubas model of paying everyone so they don’t sit at home to cry. 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 3 hours ago, stawns said: If Boes is a 30 goal guy, based on an 82 game projection, can you imagine the eruption if Jake gets a contract based on his 20 goal projection? Sorry I'm not understanding your point? 2 totally different players that have had 2 totally different paths. Jake was thrown in way too easily which I believe hurt his developement. One good season from Jake would not justify a big salary. Brock was also thrown in early but handled it, like you said with back to back years of injuries which probably hindered his developement. Like I said I would like to see a full season with no injuries or at least major ones and see what happens especailly with the addition top six players JB has added. Common sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, Amebushi said: I don’t understand how these contracts get negotiated anymore. I like Brock as a player on the ice and as a human off it. I want to see this signed as much as anyone. Making comparisons to long term contracts for consistent 30 goal scorers doesn’t make sense. He has not scored 30 goals. He has been injured two seasons in a row. These are facts, not pro-rated belief. I agree and will happily bet a few bucks that he will be a 30 goal scorer but I wouldn’t be paying him 8X8 for that hunch. Injuries do happen and they do affect you later too. Has his wrist really healed? Is his back going to be the same. The argument that he would score X amount more goals if he played 82 games is irrelevant to me. I have scored in 100% of the NHL games I have played in so that makes me an 82 goal scorer, please send me in the direction of my giant payout please. I miss the days where players that show huge potential but have a couple question marks sign short term bridge deals and prove they have it or they don’t. After that they gain arbitration rights and get paid or fall by the wayside based on performance. Not a fan of the new Dubas model of paying everyone so they don’t sit at home to cry. Players used to get rewarded for what you've done......now players (re agents) want to be paid for what they might do. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Sbriggs said: Sorry I'm not understanding your point? 2 totally different players that have had 2 totally different paths. Jake was thrown in way too easily which I believe hurt his developement. One good season from Jake would not justify a big salary. Brock was also thrown in early but handled it, like you said with back to back years of injuries which probably hindered his developement. Like I said I would like to see a full season with no injuries or at least major ones and see what happens especailly with the addition top six players JB has added. Common sense I'm saying if you pay Boeser big bucks based on projections, shouldn't that apply to all their players? Jake scored 15, but was on an 82 game pace for close to 20..........can you imagine the uproar if he got a contract based on that projection, rather than the 15 he actually scored? People are calling to pay Boeser like a 35-40 goal scorer because that's what his projections indicate........as opposed to the 26 and 29 he actually did score. Edited August 24, 2019 by stawns 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 55 minutes ago, Amebushi said: I don’t understand how these contracts get negotiated anymore. I like Brock as a player on the ice and as a human off it. I want to see this signed as much as anyone. Making comparisons to long term contracts for consistent 30 goal scorers doesn’t make sense. He has not scored 30 goals. He has been injured two seasons in a row. These are facts, not pro-rated belief. I agree and will happily bet a few bucks that he will be a 30 goal scorer but I wouldn’t be paying him 8X8 for that hunch. Injuries do happen and they do affect you later too. Has his wrist really healed? Is his back going to be the same. The argument that he would score X amount more goals if he played 82 games is irrelevant to me. I have scored in 100% of the NHL games I have played in so that makes me an 82 goal scorer, please send me in the direction of my giant payout please. I miss the days where players that show huge potential but have a couple question marks sign short term bridge deals and prove they have it or they don’t. After that they gain arbitration rights and get paid or fall by the wayside based on performance. Not a fan of the new Dubas model of paying everyone so they don’t sit at home to cry. Your logical comparison is off. Brock's sample size is quite large and his ppg speaks for itself, even with injuries. He's so young that injuries most likely will not play a factor moving forward. Managing a team based on hypotheticals isn't the best idea, but rather based on performance and likely continued development and projection is a better way to go, imho. He's suffered so much adversity both personally and professionally, and yet he still produces. Lock him up. He's the real deal. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Your logical comparison is off. Brock's sample size is quite large and his ppg speaks for itself, even with injuries. He's so young that injuries most likely will not play a factor moving forward. Managing a team based on hypotheticals isn't the best idea, but rather based on performance and likely continued development and projection is a better way to go, imho. He's suffered so much adversity both personally and professionally, and yet he still produces. Lock him up. He's the real deal. isn't that what you're talking about here? Hypothetically, he'll stay healthy, but factually, he hasn't been able to thus far. Edited August 24, 2019 by stawns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amebushi Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Your logical comparison is off. Brock's sample size is quite large and his ppg speaks for itself, even with injuries. He's so young that injuries most likely will not play a factor moving forward. Managing a team based on hypotheticals isn't the best idea, but rather based on performance and likely continued development and projection is a better way to go, imho. He's suffered so much adversity both personally and professionally, and yet he still produces. Lock him up. He's the real deal. Clearly my example is a bit off, and I already stated I want Brock signed. Where do you find that a young age guarantees no lasting effect from injuries? I’ve broken a vertebra in my back, it healed up fine but was never the same again. I’m not saying he isn’t the real deal I’m saying pay him for what he has proven. He is not a consistent 30 goal scorer. He is a consistent high 20 goal scorer with a ton of potential and upside. I’m opposed to handing out high dollar long term contracts to unproven players. I also believe that injuries can and often do change careers. The difference between being a real star and being a solid NHL player is not that much. If you want an example look at Edler...I bet without injuries he would have had a very different career. Hopefully you are right and Brock has no lasting effects and fills the net for many years. I’m just saying if he wants a 30-40 goal paycheque he should have to put the numbers on the board. It may cost more long term but I’d rather see our stars paid a little extra than throw money at potential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 hour ago, stawns said: I'm saying if you pay Boeser big bucks based on projections, shouldn't that apply to all their players? Jake scored 15, but was on an 82 game pace for close to 20..........can you imagine the uproar if he got a contract based on that projection, rather than the 15 he actually scored? People are calling to pay Boeser like a 35-40 goal scorer because that's what his projections indicate........as opposed to the 26 and 29 he actually did score. Gotta base his salary on his production not kinda sorta maybe's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) I'm in the camp that says screw it and try to sign him for more now but long term, like 8 x 8. Is it a gamble? Absolutely. Is it an overpayment based on his production thus far? Definitely. The system sucks but it is what it is. Finding players of his Calibre are not easy by way of trade or the draft and sooner or later they always get paid. I'd be willing to gamble that Boeser will be at the very least a consistent 30g scorer just based on who he will be playing with. We might overpay now but in the end it would be a bargain. Don't forget inflation as well. It seems contracts will keep getting more expensive over time so 8 mill a season could be a steal in 5 years time. Edited August 25, 2019 by JC2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Sbriggs said: Gotta base his salary on his production not kinda sorta maybe's Exactly, 26 and 29 goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, stawns said: Exactly, 26 and 29 goals yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz-Pix Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I'd rather see a contract around $5.5- $6 million (base) over 4 years with bonus's incentives. $1,000,000 extra for say 35, over 40 its jumps up to $1.5 million or so. That way he's paid (base salary) for what done... with the potential to earn more if he exceeds expectations. If he gets injured and doesn't hit the bonus clauses then we're not paying for potential that wasn't realized that year. I understand its hard to work with caps in this scenario but surely theres away to figure something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyezone Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, JC2 said: I'm in the camp that says screw it and try to sign him for more now but long term, like 8 x 8. Is it a gamble? Absolutely. Is it an overpayment based on his production thus far? Definitely. The system sucks but it is what it is. Finding players of his Calibre are not easy by way of trade or the draft and sooner or later they always get paid. I'd be willing to gamble that Boeser will be at the very least a consistent 30g scorer just based on who he will be playing with. We might overpay now but in the end it would be a bargain. Don't forget inflation as well. It seems contracts will keep getting more expensive over time so 8 mill a season could be a steal in 5 years time. I agree. Players don’t just forget how to take laser beam wristers. Seems like a safe bet for 10 years top six of winger production. Edited August 25, 2019 by reyezone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Provost Posted August 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, JC2 said: I'm in the camp that says screw it and try to sign him for more now but long term, like 8 x 8. Is it a gamble? Absolutely. Is it an overpayment based on his production thus far? Definitely. The system sucks but it is what it is. Finding players of his Calibre are not easy by way of trade or the draft and sooner or later they always get paid. I'd be willing to gamble that Boeser will be at the very least a consistent 30g scorer just based on who he will be playing with. We might overpay now but in the end it would be a bargain. Don't forget inflation as well. It seems contracts will keep getting more expensive over time so 8 mill a season could be a steal in 5 years time. Except this sets the stage in relative terms for the Petterson contract. Overpaying Boeser by a million or two means you will have to overpay the actual star player by even more. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Provost said: Except this sets the stage in relative terms for the Petterson contract. Overpaying Boeser by a million or two means you will have to overpay the actual star player by even more. Exactly, it's got more to do with the precedent being set and the future track of the teams cap in the next 5-7 years than it does about Boeser, the player........whom I love having in Vancouver. You overpay Boeser now and Petey is, for sure, double digits in two years and Hughes could very well be looking at well north of $7m too. No one wants to be TO or Edmonton with this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Provost said: Except this sets the stage in relative terms for the Petterson contract. Overpaying Boeser by a million or two means you will have to overpay the actual star player by even more. I agree with you but like I said they all get paid in the end. In my opinion what Boeser gets is irrelevant because Petey's agent will just use someone else's contract as an example. Unfortunately overpaying is inevitable. Even if the Canucks decided to trade Boeser instead the player, who had better be of equal Calibre, will eventually demand the same money. I don't like the system but that's the way it is and I don't see players taking any sort of discounts in the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6m x 4 is fair, otherwise we'll have to shift someone and I just hope JB doesn't trade away Tanev if EL is staying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Timo Meier recently signed a 24 million 4 year deal. That seems like a realistic and fair term for both sides. Get it done Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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