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buddyguy

[Rumor] Boeser Camp Eyeing 4 Year Deal Worth $28M

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I am really quite suprised Brock isn't signed yet. It is really best for all if he is signed asap, and he just doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would hold out for an extra .5 or 1m when we all know at the end of his term the guy is getting PAID.

 

Additionally, I feel Benning is typically pretty generous with his contracts (sometimes TOO generous) so I can only predict his agent is the one holding things up in trying to wait to get him top dollar.  

 

I know the story with his father, but I would really like him to step in and tell his agent to get it done. We are all trying to be understanding here, but between missing camp and tarnishing his upstanding image, I just don't see how this is worth it. Eventually fans will start to view him as Nylanderesque, and nobody wants that.

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14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Oh not this again - wasn’t this well covered about twenty pages ago or something?   Rantanen isn’t signing less then McKinnon because he’s not as good, he’s going to get a big gigantic deal or a hefty bridge one of the two, and MT isnt the best player in CAL by a long shot but might end up the richest.   Point will sign a deal that looks like a team friendly one until anyone interested gets out a calculator and adds what it would take to sign the same after tax deal in 27 other teams in the league, but it will still be a big one.  Meir got 6 x 4, Nylander 7 (prorated for the games he missed),  Keller - well you already know this.   It’s not going to matter to the players coming up next on any teams what these RFAs got, all that’s going to matter is what the cap is doing (ie how much it’s gone up) and what the recent market has done.  In four years Horvats next deal might look pretty fair at 8.5-9.  Personally I can’t see him scoring 70, not with the wingers we have to give him, but he will have a seat at the table for the first unit PP and get his fair share.   

Boeser I see as close to a PPGer, equal goals and assists.  We got a glimpse of our future with him in March where he was a PPG down the stretch when it mattered the most.   Heck LE gets six so  does that mean every other 30 point guy gets six too? No.   Players get what their closest comparables who have recently signed since salary disclosure (which is what started escalation in the first place - that and desperation on GMs part.

 

Don’t blame BB or JB for setting the market - it is what it is.   I hope Horvat can command that much as a UFA, it would mean he’s gotten even better with age.   And again BTW I think a fair deal is 5.5 x 6.   But also accept that those days are gone.

  Agreed.  The player wants to get paid what his comparables are, not what some guy sitting on his couch at home thinks will be fair.  I can say that, for most everyone here, you do a job, you do it well, and the market for your services is x, you aren't going to settle for y because a guy not in the area you work in thinks that it would really work out better for him for you to get paid that much.  Give your heads a shake.  Now is the time where JB needs to get it together, negotiate as well as he can, then make the move many of us know is coming, which is either Sutter, Tanev, or Baertschi out for a pick or waive eligible b-grade prospect.

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49 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Oh not this again - wasn’t this well covered about twenty pages ago or something?   Rantanen isn’t signing less then McKinnon because he’s not as good, he’s going to get a big gigantic deal or a hefty bridge one of the two, and MT isnt the best player in CAL by a long shot but might end up the richest.   Point will sign a deal that looks like a team friendly one until anyone interested gets out a calculator and adds what it would take to sign the same after tax deal in 27 other teams in the league, but it will still be a big one.  Meir got 6 x 4, Nylander 7 (prorated for the games he missed),  Keller - well you already know this.   It’s not going to matter to the players coming up next on any teams what these RFAs got, all that’s going to matter is what the cap is doing (ie how much it’s gone up) and what the recent market has done.  In four years Horvats next deal might look pretty fair at 8.5-9.  Personally I can’t see him scoring 70, not with the wingers we have to give him, but he will have a seat at the table for the first unit PP and get his fair share.   

Boeser I see as close to a PPGer, equal goals and assists.  We got a glimpse of our future with him in March where he was a PPG down the stretch when it mattered the most.   Heck LE gets six so  does that mean every other 30 point guy gets six too? No.   Players get what their closest comparables who have recently signed since salary disclosure (which is what started escalation in the first place - that and desperation on GMs part.

 

Don’t blame BB or JB for setting the market - it is what it is.   I hope Horvat can command that much as a UFA, it would mean he’s gotten even better with age.   And again BTW I think a fair deal is 5.5 x 6.   But also accept that those days are gone.

So why do you think Marner is holding out?

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This is ridiculous.... At this point the agents are just comparing dick size. Think about it, if say, for instance Brocks agent signs for a fair deal, how does he look against the other agents comparatively. Does he get more or less future business because he didn't try and get the absolute maximum for his client. This isn't a Brock thing, this is an agent thing. (I know that's consistent with some sentiment around here).. I think realistically, in the future, a player will have to fire their agent over something like this, and set the trend, there's no other way to reverse it..this may just get worse in future years if nothing changes.

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17 minutes ago, stawns said:

So why do you think Marner is holding out?

Because he wants to get paid what his closest recent comparables are getting.   He is the team leading scorer since he arrived right?  Just like I said - the market is set - and the  AM deal was a big part of this - but so was McDavids and Eichels deals before them.   Marner is the best RFA remaining, he will get a lot more then anyone left. 

 

Why do you think Marner is holding out?

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8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Because he wants to get paid what his closest recent comparables are getting.   He is the team leading scorer since he arrived right?  Just like I said - the market is set - and the  AM deal was a big part of this - but so was McDavids and Eichels deals before them.   Marner is the best RFA remaining, he will get a lot more then anyone left. 

 

Why do you think Marner is holding out?

Because yet another agent is busy playing roulette and potentially ruining yet another young man’s future Hall of Fame career totals. 

 

A Cup winning Marner is far more valuable than a non-Cup winning Marner.

 

The Leafs are a good team that should’ve traded Nylander on the spot.

 

The amount of points he has never had has become the par for what he will never be.

 

Marner may be next to never become.

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20 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

This is ridiculous.... At this point the agents are just comparing dick size. Think about it, if say, for instance Brocks agent signs for a fair deal, how does he look against the other agents comparatively. Does he get more or less future business because he didn't try and get the absolute maximum for his client. This isn't a Brock thing, this is an agent thing. (I know that's consistent with some sentiment around here).. I think realistically, in the future, a player will have to fire their agent over something like this, and set the trend, there's no other way to reverse it..this may just get worse in future years if nothing changes.

The only way to reverse it would be to get rid of salary disclosure which will never happen.  It’s made the much richer then they ever would have been otherwise.    There is no reversing it - and because we have a cap the money is going to have to come from somewhere, likely squeeze the middle class more at least until the league figures out handing ridiculous contracts to UFAs doesn’t pay off in the long run.  Also the owners pocketbook - I’m sure the next CBA will come with a couple free buyouts to clean up some dead weight - which is a bandaid approach and limited to two years we won’t likely need ours anyways (unless Myers stinks it up).  

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2 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Because yet another agent is busy playing roulette and potentially ruining yet another young man’s future Hall of Fame career totals. 

 

A Cup winning Marner is far more valuable than a non-Cup winning Marner.

 

The Leafs are a good team that should’ve traded Nylander on the spot.

 

The amount of points he has never had has become the par for what he will never be.

 

Marner may be next to never become.

Yes they should have traded Nylander - not sure about the rest.   Maybe TOs offered him 10.5 x 8 and he’s holding out for 11, who knows what’s actually going on.

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6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The only way to reverse it would be to get rid of salary disclosure which will never happen.  It’s made the much richer then they ever would have been otherwise.    There is no reversing it - and because we have a cap the money is going to have to come from somewhere, likely squeeze the middle class more at least until the league figures out handing ridiculous contracts to UFAs doesn’t pay off in the long run.  Also the owners pocketbook - I’m sure the next CBA will come with a couple free buyouts to clean up some dead weight - which is a bandaid approach and limited to two years we won’t likely need ours anyways (unless Myers stinks it up).  

You could be right.. Although a quicker fix would be a real team player type firing an agent over this, then there wouldn't be this bench mark to compete with, there would be a balance, and an agent could more aptly decide to pursue the fair deal over the lets get rich and strangle hold the whole team ideal which we are seeing now.. And I mean Marner, not Brock, I think he and his agent are held at the mercy of this mess because of things I described above.. The ball will have to drop one way or another.

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7 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

You could be right.. Although a quicker fix would be a real team player type firing an agent over this, then there wouldn't be this bench mark to compete with, there would be a balance, and an agent could more aptly decide to pursue the fair deal over the lets get rich and strangle hold the whole team ideal which we are seeing now.. And I mean Marner, not Brock, I think he and his agent are held at the mercy of this mess because of things I described above.. The ball will have to drop one way or another.

In the end it’s the player that decides to take the deal or not - if they feel it’s fair and that’s important to them they can sign it.  The agent is negotiating and bringing the player the offers/counteroffers.. if TO is lowballing Marner that’s on them - but really I think greed is involved in here somewhere...hard to know exactly who’s being greedy maybe both sides.  The whole things a mess and Dubas played a big part in it if anyone deserves to be fired ...

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7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

In the end it’s the player that decides to take the deal or not - if they feel it’s fair and that’s important to them they can sign it.  The agent is negotiating and bringing the player the offers/counteroffers.. if TO is lowballing Marner that’s on them - but really I think greed is involved in here somewhere...hard to know exactly who’s being greedy maybe both sides.  The whole things a mess and Dubas played a big part in it if anyone deserves to be fired ...

Oh, it's greed I think. Apparently:

 

Inside The Neutral Zone @ITNZhockey

According to @mirtle with the @TheAthletic the #MapleLeafs have made 3 offers to Marner & his agent. 3 Years - $8.75M AAV, 6 Years - $10M AAV & 7 Years - $10.75M AAV #Marner #Leafs

 

Holding out for 11.5? Guess you need those other 2 Ferraris to go with the first 22.

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Marner is the Leaf’s best forward.  He’s led them in scoring two years in a row.  He even kills penalties, which shows how good he plays defensively.  It’s not Marner’s fault Dubass way overpaid Princess Willie, and Pretty Face Auston.  Marner deserves more than Matthews, who got 11.5 over five years.  If the Leafs are trying to get Marner to sign UFA years, then the cap dollar has to go up.  12 million per for 7 or 8 years.  11.5 for five years.  Dubass set the bar.  Marner leaped over that bar, and cleared it be a lot.  The guy deserves to be paid fairly.  Blame Dubass. 

Very good point, I am just pissed we have to suffer.. Suffer for both waiting on Brock to sign and that we have to keep talking about the effing leafs.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Because he wants to get paid what his closest recent comparables are getting.   He is the team leading scorer since he arrived right?  Just like I said - the market is set - and the  AM deal was a big part of this - but so was McDavids and Eichels deals before them.   Marner is the best RFA remaining, he will get a lot more then anyone left. 

 

Why do you think Marner is holding out?

Because Dumbass paid the 4th best player on his team a ridiculous salary that became the standard by which the 3 better players on the team will expect to exceed.  Marner looks at AM's value to the team, compares his own value to the team, looks at AM's contract and says " if Mathews is getting that contract, then my contract should be more because I am more valuable to the team".

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2 hours ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

This is ridiculous.... At this point the agents are just comparing dick size. Think about it, if say, for instance Brocks agent signs for a fair deal, how does he look against the other agents comparatively. Does he get more or less future business because he didn't try and get the absolute maximum for his client. This isn't a Brock thing, this is an agent thing. (I know that's consistent with some sentiment around here).. I think realistically, in the future, a player will have to fire their agent over something like this, and set the trend, there's no other way to reverse it..this may just get worse in future years if nothing changes.

Agents, obviously, play a big part, but ultimately the players are the ones who make the final call.  I think agents may lead them to believe they have more leverage than they do.

 

Regarding Marner, he's one who does deserve big money, but it should still be in the $8mish range........dumbass blew this one big time.

 

The sad part is, one of my work colleagues and huge leaves fan truly thinks dumbass is a top GM in the league.

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22 minutes ago, stawns said:

Agents, obviously, play a big part, but ultimately the players are the ones who make the final call.  I think agents may lead them to believe they have more leverage than they do.

 

Regarding Marner, he's one who does deserve big money, but it should still be in the $8mish range........dumbass blew this one big time.

 

The sad part is, one of my work colleagues and huge leaves fan truly thinks dumbass is a top GM in the league.

Scary!  What do you think the odds of multiple RFA trades are......getting higher by the day I think!

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10 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 My first post on the topic that people were replying to...

 

Or how about the post that started this conversation off, @aGENT you know... the one you first replied to.

 

 

hmmm. seems to me like term was exactly what the discussion is about......haha

 

and you want to talk about embarrassing? derp....hasn't school started yet?

 

 

Nope, it's still you who should be embarrassed. I and many others were talking about the cap hit, and you damn well know it. You're just mad that I once again owned you and you can't handle it. Don't talk about school when it's clear you are the one who needs to learn something.

Edited by The Great Canucks
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4 hours ago, stawns said:

Because Dumbass paid the 4th best player on his team a ridiculous salary that became the standard by which the 3 better players on the team will expect to exceed.  Marner looks at AM's value to the team, compares his own value to the team, looks at AM's contract and says " if Mathews is getting that contract, then my contract should be more because I am more valuable to the team".

Dubas backed himself into this one didn’t he.   AM scores like 20 goals in 11 games and gets his monster contract because he’s going to be the first 100 goal scorer right?  Gets his contract, slows down and gets injured.   Guess we will see if he can score 100 this year ha ha.

 

  So what your saying is the market was set with  AM and now Marner wants that much or more too?   Kane/Toews, Getzlaf/Perry,  Crosby/Malkin - one is not the same but gets/got  paid the same nonetheless (RFA made deals) and never heard a whisper of (well i scored more - or I’m a better all-around player etc) filthy rich is filthy rich.   Oh and I guess we are saying the same thing - that the recent market comparables set the amounts even when one is ludicrous - will add that to an addendum - star contracts when ludicrous still hold up as solid comps.     

 

 TO has cleared enough cap to pay him a ton of money - nobody (including the athletic, that’s sarcasm) - but Marner and his agent know what deals have been offered.   Guess they could leak it but not sure how that would help his cause in TO - and if they did why not a credible source like EF or BM (unless they are being incredibly petty and wanted it out there but from a uncredible source so plausible deniability is in play too). 

 

As far as  Horvats next deal goes (back to your reply from yesterday) what BB does now will have little affect on it - it would have if they signed their deals at the same time and age (were they actually the same age)- a lot has changed in two years though - just like it will over the next four.  And they are not very good comps but if they did sign at the same age BB would be getting more for sure - as Horvat at the time was a good second line center with some upside, while the other one is an elite winger with a ton of upside.   Ranked 8th best  R wing in the league already by THN, right behind Rantanen and ahead of Kessel, Meir, Laine and a whole bunch of others  way down the list is Nylander (22).  Horvat didn’t make the cut for centers and that’s today’s information (annual top 25 right now list).   Of course it’s a more valuable position I do get that.  But he’d be making more (BB) regardless.  In four years Horvat will more likely then not, get overpaid as a UFA for past production just like stars/blue chippers have for decades.

 

Thankfully BB won’t break the bank.  And PIT has shown you can win cups with a top heavy team, same as WSH so there is hope for TO too, in case EPs play gets way up there and he breaks 100 points the next two years and we get top heavy there is still hope.  Hughes contract shouldn’t  be that bad at all, for whatever reason defenseman aren’t included in the new RFA club (except for Ekblad he got paid but maybe that’s part of the reason - harder to really know what you have yet at that age) and even if they are by then it’s unlikely his defensive game will be that great - maybe average or above average, but he should put up points at a decent clip and those guys make money generally.   If I had to guess (way too early) it would be in the 5-7 range.  

 

So even IF EP scores 100 twice and gets  a McDavid contract, we’d still be ok with Boeser at 7-8 (a trade maybe required) and Hughes at 5-7.   We’d get those three and Horvat for the same or less then AM,Tavares and Marner I’m sure. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, stawns said:

Because Dumbass paid the 4th best player on his team a ridiculous salary that became the standard by which the 3 better players on the team will expect to exceed.  Marner looks at AM's value to the team, compares his own value to the team, looks at AM's contract and says " if Mathews is getting that contract, then my contract should be more because I am more valuable to the team".

Oh and that’s a bit of a stretch (calling AM the fourth best on the team)....

 

Tavares doesn’t count - he’s a UFA who earned his contract (unlike the way things are going now with star RFAs) after a very team friendly five million contract 

 

Crosby and Malkin signed the same contract - one is obviously better then the other moreso then these two guys by far.   Toews/Kane ... Getzlaf/Perry... Parise/Suter  (go check theirs out 7.55 x 13 full NMC- just ridiculous). 

 

Players are never exactly the same - but sometimes they do take the same or almost exactly the same contract ... and with AM we really don’t know what he can do - he’s playing with worse players (Marner plays with Tavares) and has had moments of brilliance and plays a more valuable position.  He could actually earn the title of top dog in TO, for now he’s definitely getting paid like one.

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