[Report] 40 players elect salary arbitration

[kanucks25]

44 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You made the claim - it's yours to own and qualify - no one else's onus.

 

You've done nothing there to make your case but post a bunch of graph material with no evidence you're able to understand or analyze it.

I can post a link to Hockey Reference numbers for both these guys - as if that's either a qualification or refutation of your claim.

Got anything?   Btw - I've posted a lot of material in the Myers thread qualifying my opinion of him - my own work/analyis if you want to take issue with any of it.

 

I can't understand or analyze, or you're just being purposely obtuse to avoid being wrong?

 

Pretty much every stat we have access to points to Gardiner being better: raw, relative and rates.

 

Pick your poison. Traditional points? Yup. Possession? Yup. Scoring chances? Yup. Expected numbers? Yup.

 

35 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

And minimally Jim Benning, who did not even interview him.  Not to mention the fact that Gardiner remains unsigned, yet was purportedly the "hot item" in UFA dmen, evidences more that "your opinion" may NOT be the consensus you think it is.  35 other UFA defencemen have been signed, yet Gardiner's still out there.

Kawhi Leonard not signed yet. He must really suck.

 

As for the consensus, make a poll on an NHL-wide forum, try r/hockey or HF main page, see what you get.

 

And (if true) Benning not being interested in a player isn't really an indictment of the player; Benning's pro scouting so far in his tenure hasn't exactly been something to write home about, especially when it comes to his grotesque list of D-men.

Edited July 6, 2019 by kanucks25

[kanucks25]

33 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

You responded to my statement that we could not add any more without being reckless, saying that it's supposedly said we "need not" sign more players, when the reality is that it's not possible to do so.  It's not a matter of lack of desire.

Feels like we're arguing about two different things here.

 

I know we need better players, and I know Benning knows that and wants better players, too. I even mentioned that Benning said himself that the wanted to add more, but couldn't because of cap. I don't deny his desire to add more players or that it's not possible to do so because we're out of cap space.

 

I'm saying we should/could have added more, if it weren't for his bad contracts.. contracts that apologists argued weren't a "big deal" because apparently bad contracts don't matter during a rebuild.

[kanucks25]

6 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Considering our needs; who would you have used the cap space on?

 

And do you really think we are going to be as bad next year as we were this year? Given our upgrades, and resultant increase in used cap, I think we will push for playoffs.

I think we're better and we might even squeak in if things go well (AKA stay healthy, which we know is a long-shot).

 

I don't think we should have signed anyone to a big contract like we did. I think it'll be detrimental to the main goal which is to be good in ~2 years. IMO spending money and being marginally better now when it means nothing is not worth losing flexibility in the future. I thought we already learned this lesson with previous UFA signings but people can't resist that new shiny toy.

[goblix]

A lot of these are just paper trails for players to have a backup or a deadline from the team. Contracts can still be signed and arbitration avoided.

 

The most interesting is Binnington and how much the arbitrator would value a Stanley cup or even if that is even a viable argument towards the value.

[I.Am.Ironman]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

I think we're better and we might even squeak in if things go well (AKA stay healthy, which we know is a long-shot).

 

I don't think we should have signed anyone to a big contract like we did. I think it'll be detrimental to the main goal which is to be good in ~2 years. IMO spending money and being marginally better now when it means nothing is not worth losing flexibility in the future. I thought we already learned this lesson with previous UFA signings but people can't resist that new shiny toy.

Our defence absolutely needed to be changed - Benn and Myers improve that group, no two ways about it. I also think there is a flaw trying to time your  'perfect window' like you suggest is ~2years away. If we don't make the moves we did we don't make playoffs next year.. for sure - now we have a chance. I don't see why you wouldn't want to improve every year.. within reason. What would the likes of Bo Horvat think if we went into next year with the exact same D corps? Or maybe just adding Benn. Are you going to sell him on "hey look at our cap space though!". I think JB did a good job this off season.. this is also his 'show me' year.

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Our defence absolutely needed to be changed - Benn and Myers improve that group, no two ways about it. I also think there is a flaw trying to time your  'perfect window' like you suggest is ~2years away. If we don't make the moves we did we don't make playoffs next year.. for sure - now we have a chance. I don't see why you wouldn't want to improve every year.. within reason. What would the likes of Bo Horvat think if we went into next year with the exact same D corps? Or maybe just adding Benn. Are you going to sell him on "hey look at our cap space though!". I think JB did a good job this off season.. this is also his 'show me' year.

I can see why Benning did what he did, especially when it comes to organizational morale, market morale, and his own job security.

 

I just think if he did a better job we wouldn't be 5 years into his tenure and having to mortgage the future to buy our way into a 1st round exit.

 

We were in a position where we felt like we needed to overpay Tyler freaking Myers to give us "hope?" for the upcoming season. That's not a good position to be in.

[Gaudette Celly]

24 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Feels like we're arguing about two different things here.

 

I know we need better players, and I know Benning knows that and wants better players, too. I even mentioned that Benning said himself that the wanted to add more, but couldn't because of cap. I don't deny his desire to add more players or that it's not possible to do so because we're out of cap space.

 

I'm saying we should/could have added more, if it weren't for his bad contracts.. contracts that apologists argued weren't a "big deal" because apparently bad contracts don't matter during a rebuild.

And I simply and rightly said they could technically sign another if they went over the cap but that it would be reckless, to which you mocked "oh, that's rich".  Now you're changing the goalposts, or else you're just confused from multiple angles.

[Gaudette Celly]

15 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

We were in a position where we felt like we needed to overpay Tyler freaking Myers to give us "hope?" for the upcoming season. That's not a good position to be in.

At least we see the basis of all your angst.  You have to face the fact -- we signed Myers, not Gardiner.  And Gardiner is not coming here.  Like it or not, which you don't, and we get it.

 

The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll get over it and move on.

[kanucks25]

2 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

And I simply and rightly said they could technically sign another if they went over the cap but that it would be reckless, to which you mocked "oh, that's rich".  Now you're changing the goalposts, or else you're just confused from multiple angles.

My mistake, then, because I thought you meant if they acquired anymore cap it would be reckless for our future cap structure, not necessarily for this upcoming season.

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

At least we see the basis of all your angst.  You have to face the fact -- we signed Myers, not Gardiner.  And Gardiner is not coming here.  Like it or not, which you don't, and we get it.

 

The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll get over it and move on.

I never expected us to sign Gardiner, that's not the point.

 

Point is we could have signed Gardiner had it not been for dead cap. He would have made us better, he would have made our defence better, and he would have helped end the tank which is what most people said for the argument to support the Myers signing.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

I never expected us to sign Gardiner, that's not the point.

 

Point is we could have signed Gardiner had it not been for dead cap. He would have made us better, he would have made our defence better, and he would have helped end the tank which is what most people said for the argument to support the Myers signing.

Coulda woulda shoulda.  And what team doesn't have dead cap or bad contracts they've had to deal with?  Things in business and sports aren't so simply tidy neat-and-clean cut-and-dry down-to-the-penny as you seem to believe they should be.  We're dealing with people, not machines or computers.

[I.Am.Ironman]

42 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I can see why Benning did what he did, especially when it comes to organizational morale, market morale, and his own job security.

 

I just think if he did a better job we wouldn't be 5 years into his tenure and having to mortgage the future to buy our way into a 1st round exit.

 

We were in a position where we felt like we needed to overpay Tyler freaking Myers to give us "hope?" for the upcoming season. That's not a good position to be in.

Considering what he inherited and the lack of lotto luck I think we are doing ok. Of course he could have done a better job in the last 5 years but every other GM in the league 'could have done better' in the last 5 years.

 

Tyler Myers is an upgrade on Pouliot, a significant one.

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

Coulda woulda shoulda.  And what team doesn't have dead cap or bad contracts they've had to deal with?  Things in business and sports aren't so simply tidy neat-and-clean cut-and-dry down-to-the-penny as you seem to believe they should be.  We're dealing with people, not machines or computers.

Not expecting a perfect record, just less mistakes that are clear mistakes from day 1 (not revisionist). Simply too many of those on Benning's resume.

 

Loui "3 first round picks sweetener to get rid of him" Eriksson is exhibit A.

 

Lucic was one of the main reasons Chiarelli was fired in Edmonton. It's not something that can be given a mulligan.

[skolozsy2]

The list doesn't even include a single Canucks player filing for arbitration...

 

 

....and yet, 4 pages of arguing.  Solid Gold!

 

 

This is why as a Hawks fan I come for the updates and insights, but I stick around for the entertainment.

[theo5789]

10 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I can see why Benning did what he did, especially when it comes to organizational morale, market morale, and his own job security.

 

I just think if he did a better job we wouldn't be 5 years into his tenure and having to mortgage the future to buy our way into a 1st round exit.

 

We were in a position where we felt like we needed to overpay Tyler freaking Myers to give us "hope?" for the upcoming season. That's not a good position to be in.

If you don't think we should ever trade a 1st round pick to improve the team, then that's just being naive. Teams have been in funks for a decade, so I don't think you appreciate the fact that Benning has built the depth in really what was only 3 years of actual rebuild.

[qwijibo]

18 hours ago, WalkWithElias40 said:

this means, BROCK HAS SIGNED A NEW CONTRACT WAITING TO BE ANNOUNCED !

Boeser doesn’t  have arbitration rights. So regardless of where they are in negotiations he never would have appeared on the list 

[qwijibo]

18 hours ago, WalkWithElias40 said:

this means, BROCK HAS SIGNED A NEW CONTRACT WAITING TO BE ANNOUNCED !

Boeser doesn’t  have arbitration rights. So regardless of where they are in negotiations he never would have appeared on the list 

[JeremyCuddles]

19 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Vancouver has no players choosing arbitration.

 

Trouba and Binnington are the standout names on the list.

My boys Heinen and Bennett though

[Gaudette Celly]

11 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Lucic was one of the main reasons Chiarelli was fired in Edmonton. It's not something that can be given a mulligan.

And yet, you want to bring him here.

[theo5789]

13 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I never expected us to sign Gardiner, that's not the point.

 

Point is we could have signed Gardiner had it not been for dead cap. He would have made us better, he would have made our defence better, and he would have helped end the tank which is what most people said for the argument to support the Myers signing.

If dead cap stopped us from signing Gardiner, thank goodness for dead cap. That's a win for LE finally!