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Thoughts on how Vancouver stacks up to division rivals

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3 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think the Canucks will have the best goaltending in the Pacific and top 3 in the West.........that is going to go a long long way in getting to the post season. If Marky and Demko build on last season and the team can stay healthy, I think they are in the ball park of a divisional spot.

Agreed.

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12 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Doubtful 4 teams from the Pacific make the playoffs. Will more than likely be 5 Central 3 Pacific. 

I was thinking that all along too but Winnipeg lost some key players

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6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not bad... think SJ goalie rank is too high, Jones was way below average last year would swap them with us.  Also ARI Goalies are higher then that.   Would argue are forwards are higher then SJ too, would swap those too.  Would swap Vegas F with CAL although it’s pretty close and move their D (Vegas) down a spot, he’s solid but unremarkable.  LAs forwards are too high...they are going to stink it up this year, and 3 for G is only if Quick is healthy. 

 

This where I’d put Van

 

F. 3. D. 4 G 3 (if Markstrom continues like he did).  

 

On paper at least we are the most improved team in the division.   ARI second, adding Kessel was a boon, and Raanta is one of the best when he plays too.  Team on the rise.

 

SJ ...  well they won’t be as good without Pavelski and Thornton (he may still sign though).   Really their fortunes are in EKs hands now, he wasn’t close to 100%, if he is I’d say they have a chance for first, if he’s the same they will struggle to get a wild card spot.  Team on a decline.  Jones wasn’t that good either, average at best. 

 

Overall only locks are Vegas and CAL.   The rest is anyone’s guess other then LA and ANA stinking it up big time.   Even EDM could surprise.  

Fair points.

 

I agree that Raanta is one of the best when he plays.  Raanta has been terribly injury prone though.  Kuemper has been good but I guess I still don't find their goaltending to be that impressive.  If Raanta can stay healthy though, I would agree with ranking Arizona's goaltending higher.

 

For San Jose, the loss of Pavelski and possible loss of Thornton are tough but I guess I'm factoring in the growth of Meier and Hertl last season.  Kane seems like he has found a good home there as well.  Not the biggest fan of Couture but he is a good top-6 center.  The Sharks also seem to generally have a good depth (though the loss of Donskoi hurts that depth).  Combined with their D, they're a tough team to play.  I agree that Jones was not very good last year but I guess I'm giving him a pass for last season.  Still, it's a fair point to rank their goaltending lower.

 

Overall we agree that the Canucks are improved and are at least around the middle of the pack for each category.  I am looking forward to seeing how it all comes together this season!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, stawns said:

I think the Canucks will have the best goaltending in the Pacific and top 3 in the West.........that is going to go a long long way in getting to the post season. If Marky and Demko build on last season and the team can stay healthy, I think they are in the ball park of a divisional spot.

Gibson and fleury in the pacific?? binnington and bishop and rinne in central? all of them capable playing more than 75% of the games

Edited by wai_lai416

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2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Gibson and fleury in the pacific?? binnington and bishop and rinne in central? all of them capable playing more than 75% of the games

Fleury is getting older and slower, Gibson doesn't have a great team in front of him and who knows what binnington is going to be.......I'd put Marky above all three of him if he plays like he did from Dec on, and has a better team in front of him.

 

Rinne and Bishop are the top two in the conference, for sure

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16 minutes ago, stawns said:

Fleury is getting older and slower, Gibson doesn't have a great team in front of him and who knows what binnington is going to be.......I'd put Marky above all three of him if he plays like he did from Dec on, and has a better team in front of him.

 

Rinne and Bishop are the top two in the conference, for sure

lol you put markstrom over binnington because binnington have been way better than markstrom in the same stretch? st louis defense is worse than vancouver???? what?? gibson doesn't have a great team in front of him but he had better numbers than them for years now and markstrom is better? once again vancouver is over valuing their players

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44 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol you put markstrom over binnington because binnington have been way better than markstrom in the same stretch? st louis defense is worse than vancouver???? what?? gibson doesn't have a great team in front of him but he had better numbers than them for years now and markstrom is better? once again vancouver is over valuing their players

Where did I say st Louis defense is worse than van?

 

Marky, for me, was a top 10 goalie behind a porous defense and injury riddled team.  I think he's going to be in the top 5-7 this season.

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4 hours ago, Canucks_fo_life said:

I was thinking that all along too but Winnipeg lost some key players

Even though they lost some players they'll be better than people think imo

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6 hours ago, stawns said:

Where did I say st Louis defense is worse than van?

 

Marky, for me, was a top 10 goalie behind a porous defense and injury riddled team.  I think he's going to be in the top 5-7 this season.

Mis read, regardless hes not a top 5-7 maybe 10 if lucky not in any particular order these goalie are better than markstrom currently in terms of skill unless they all of a sudden have a massive drop. Gibson Rinne bishop binnington fleury (you cant say fleury is older and slower when hes 34 and say Rinne is top of the crop when hes 36 he still had very good stats last year) vasilevsky price rask Bob and murray. In terms of skill. 

 

Then you add in the goalies that have good stats based on the coach and team structures

Greiss, dubnyk, kuemper, halak and a few others. They all have a much higher save % than markstrom. Even if Markstrom played good in the beginning they will only be similar at best. So to say hes a top 10 goalie is a bit of a stretch. Theres plenty of team out there with just as bad defense and gives up way more shots than the Canucks and have a higher save %

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2019 at 5:25 PM, EternalCanuckFan said:

St. Louis obviously just won the cup so maybe they'll be good again next season but it's hard to say.  Their success coincided with Binnington's crazy run.  Now, Binnington kept that going for long enough that it probably wasn't a fluke, but can he do that for a whole season?  They haven't really made many improvements this off season and while their players who had a down year should bounce back this season, that's not a guarantee.  They snuck into the playoffs and then ran the table but I think there's a chance they might miss this year.

They snuck into the playoffs? They were a point away from 1st in arguably the most stacked division in hockey and were 9 points ahead of the last wildcard spot. St Louis is legit, and will likely have a lot of confidence heading into this season. Theyd be at the bottom of my list of teams that might mis next year. 

Edited by BI3KSA-

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15 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Gibson and fleury in the pacific?? binnington and bishop and rinne in central? all of them capable playing more than 75% of the games

Not Rinne anymore, more like 50 games, and Fluery risks injuries too when he plays too much, both those guys will be kept rested and fresh for the playoffs.  Gibson is so so good.  Wish we had him.   Binnington is still a bit unknown but seems like that’s a fair statement at the least he will get the majority of the games. 

 

Markstrom was one of the best in our division from December on, and had proven he’s capable of a big work load too.   More worried about Demko then him, he’s still unproven and ideally the team is better off if he can steal the job (won’t be easy).   We will only keep one of them on the team, the other will get traded if possible before ED...Markström is also working himself into a big or at least modest raise, and is still young for a goaltender.   If he plays .920 plus for an entire season we definitely have a top goalie in our division, arguably second best depending on MAFs play (he’s getting older, still very good but also has a history of going up and down and he’s due for a down about right now).  

 

Raanta is also a great goalie, he has a hard time staying healthy but if he does then would be up near he top too.  Quick seems to be close to done IMO, too many injuries and old battle wounds to stay healthy and isn’t as good as he used to be. 

 

Should be an interesting year.  Worst case things don’t gel and we miss the playoffs - hopefully we sell if that’s the case at the TDL and play rookies and go full tank mode.  Doubt that will be the case, we improved too much while most stood still and a few regressed.    We won’t be patsies anymore, even last year we weren’t an easy win.  

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7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Mis read, regardless hes not a top 5-7 maybe 10 if lucky not in any particular order these goalie are better than markstrom currently in terms of skill unless they all of a sudden have a massive drop. Gibson Rinne bishop binnington fleury (you cant say fleury is older and slower when hes 34 and say Rinne is top of the crop when hes 36 he still had very good stats last year) vasilevsky price rask Bob and murray. In terms of skill. 

 

Then you add in the goalies that have good stats based on the coach and team structures

Greiss, dubnyk, kuemper, halak and a few others. They all have a much higher save % than markstrom. Even if Markstrom played good in the beginning they will only be similar at best. So to say hes a top 10 goalie is a bit of a stretch. Theres plenty of team out there with just as bad defense and gives up way more shots than the Canucks and have a higher save %

Goal is the most fickle position in the league, often a hot goalie wins the Vezina or is a finalist, then is mediocre and sometimes even drops off the face of the earth (Jim Carey).   Mason wins the Calder and gets Vezina consideration with I think ten SOs to boot, then barely had a decent career after.  Raycroft too.  Heck that guy in Buffalo was on his was last season for a while until the other foot dropped.  Hammond a few years ago won over 20 in a row to start his career and is nowhere now.  

 

That’s why guys like Luongo, Bobrovsky (maybe not so sure), Rinne and MAF are so coveted.  Notice I didn’t include Hart winner “best player in the world” bridge deal to brinks truck Price in that mix?   Even the best have off years but sometimes the best are only best for a year or two (Thomas) but are very dominant when they are on top, then also fall off a cliff.  Hasek was the most dominant for the longest stretch ever, 7-8 years.  That’s the bar right there.  Probably never be beaten. 

 

This year I expect much of the same.  A few great goalies will be mediocre, a few mediocre ones will be great.  Lehner had an incredible season last year and he’s a career back-up (with demons I know).   Markstrom didn’t even rank in the top 31 to start the season given the bevy of back-ups that made the list, this year I’d expect to see him somewhere in the 20’s.  It will take a lot more then three months to move him up to top ten, even if he’s playing like one.  

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15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Goal is the most fickle position in the league, often a hot goalie wins the Vezina or is a finalist, then is mediocre and sometimes even drops off the face of the earth (Jim Carey).   Mason wins the Calder and gets Vezina consideration with I think ten SOs to boot, then barely had a decent career after.  Raycroft too.  Heck that guy in Buffalo was on his was last season for a while until the other foot dropped.  Hammond a few years ago won over 20 in a row to start his career and is nowhere now.  

 

That’s why guys like Luongo, Bobrovsky (maybe not so sure), Rinne and MAF are so coveted.  Notice I didn’t include Hart winner “best player in the world” bridge deal to brinks truck Price in that mix?   Even the best have off years but sometimes the best are only best for a year or two (Thomas) but are very dominant when they are on top, then also fall off a cliff.  Hasek was the most dominant for the longest stretch ever, 7-8 years.  That’s the bar right there.  Probably never be beaten. 

 

This year I expect much of the same.  A few great goalies will be mediocre, a few mediocre ones will be great.  Lehner had an incredible season last year and he’s a career back-up (with demons I know).   Markstrom didn’t even rank in the top 31 to start the season given the bevy of back-ups that made the list, this year I’d expect to see him somewhere in the 20’s.  It will take a lot more then three months to move him up to top ten, even if he’s playing like one.  

agreed here. the big if is playing behind what should be a better D core is whether that translates into Marky and Demko having a better year as well. Most would say they had a decent year in goal last season with Hutton and stecher playing number 1-2 for a long stretch of the season. What could they do playing behind a more balanced D with the additions of Hughes, Myers, Benn and even Fantenberg. The depth of the D improved. Is Myers a Norris guy. Not likely but adding 33% more NHL ready D to your team and increasing the NHL ready depth should help not only the D core stats but also the Goalies.

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9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Mis read, regardless hes not a top 5-7 maybe 10 if lucky not in any particular order these goalie are better than markstrom currently in terms of skill unless they all of a sudden have a massive drop. Gibson Rinne bishop binnington fleury (you cant say fleury is older and slower when hes 34 and say Rinne is top of the crop when hes 36 he still had very good stats last year) vasilevsky price rask Bob and murray. In terms of skill. 

 

Then you add in the goalies that have good stats based on the coach and team structures

Greiss, dubnyk, kuemper, halak and a few others. They all have a much higher save % than markstrom. Even if Markstrom played good in the beginning they will only be similar at best. So to say hes a top 10 goalie is a bit of a stretch. Theres plenty of team out there with just as bad defense and gives up way more shots than the Canucks and have a higher save %

We just see it differently.  Up to Marky to clear it up I guess.

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1 minute ago, stawns said:

We just see it differently.  Up to Marky to clear it up I guess.

If Marky does falter we have Demko to take over.  Our goaltending looks great 

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Not only did JB pickup good steady players Pearson, Leivo,  JT Miller, Ferland, Myers, Benn, and Fantenberg, which improves this team a lot, but he also made sound decisions on player selection who will not be playing for the Canucks ...Pouliot, Hutton, MDZ, Gud, and Granlund...addition by subtraction, which will again improve this team.

Addition by subtraction and plain addition will add up to a lot better team...it will take a few games for these players to gel...and a full season together should bode well for this team.

 

TG should use the preseason to start the gelling process, rather than looking at upcoming prospects...start playing Boeser, EP40 and Miller together and Pearson, Bo and Ferland or JV or Baer together during preseason to get the jump immediately out of the gate for game 1.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2019 at 3:57 PM, aqua59 said:

Im of the opinion that Vancouver has gotten the attention of their fellow divisional rivals. 

 

Have they leapfrogged some of these teams?  They definitely have gotten tougher to play against.

 

I believe they have leapfrogged Edmonton and left any notions of Lucic coming here done. 

 

 Calgary is another team. i say that because of Vancouver's goaltending and the realignment in front of them. Vancouver's goaltenders just got a bit more room. Stellar.

 

The California road trips won't be so hard to watch either.

 

Thoughts?

Well Calgary just did the Lucic with McDavid scenario, but with Johnny hockey I imagine. Balancing skill and brawn is a fine line but it's going to add up to some interesting nights but we can always ice Benn Myers Ferland Miller Rousell to go after their stars if necessary and which in my mind, not a line to piss off and sub in Tree for Myers next season..  hmmm.. wonder how many pounds that would be total? Meh.. 1,100 ish of nasty.. 

Pick on Petey Brock or Bo now? That's asking for it! 

I'm almost wanting "The Rat" to try something... lol

Edited by iceman64
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I don't think Bo needs protection.  He can handle himself. :ph34r:

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7 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Well Calgary just did the Lucic with McDavid scenario, but with Johnny hockey I imagine. Balancing skill and brawn is a fine line but it's going to add up to some interesting nights but we can always ice Benn Myers Ferland Miller Rousell to go after their stars if necessary and which in my mind, not a line to piss off and sub in Tree for Myers next season..  hmmm.. wonder how many pounds that would be total? Meh.. 1,100 ish of nasty.. 

Pick on Petey Brock or Bo now? That's asking for it! 

I'm almost wanting "The Rat" to try something... lol

Totally agree. To top it off,I don't think Lucic has got much left in the fight department . It will however be interesting to watch Ferland and Lucic respectively. Ferland isn't going to let any funny business transpire. We also can't forget Jordie Benn. This guy is tough as nails and sticks up for his pals big time. 

I don't think Calgary is as team tough as they once were and having Ferland staring them down from the other bench will be a reminder of the team toughness they traded away. Calgary stood tall with that beast in the line up. Trading him to the east coast was a way to face him less until now.

You also mention Rousell, that guy impressed me big time last year. not so much in the tough pesky department but in the hussle department. 

Lucic can be tougher than nails but how's he gonna keep up. He couldn't keep up in Edmonton. That was a big problem. McDavid was blazing around and Lucic on many occasions could keep up, the play was done or he late. 

Calgary is a good team. James Neil did nothing last year and Calgary forged onward. They will forge onward with or without Lucic. 

Edmonton on the other hand actually seems like they will be worse this coming season.  

Lucic might have wanted to come home to Vancouver but from what I've been reading that was a pipedream. I'm sure he's glad to be moving to Calgary. 

Now Vancouver has to get rid of Louie. 

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