Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Time for the Calgary Stampede to Evolve... ?


kingofsurrey

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

The score given is based on the performance of the cowboy, and the bull/horse.  These bulls and horses are bred to be dynamic.  They are treated extremely well.  Their owners are proud of them, and care for them like family.  

I understand this - as someone who's family has been involved in the horse racing industry over the years.

 

However, it all needs re-assessing at times.  If it puts people and animals at risk for "entertainment" value.  

 

The problem is, the animals can't consent to whether or not they want to participate.  So it's all good and well to just assume they love it....because they're "bred" that way.  They don't have a say.

 

Truth be told, I can't even watch the horses run at Hastings and if they stopped that element of things tomorrow, I'd still go to "the track".  Because it's mostly, for me, an outdoor venue with spectacular scenery that families can go to on the weekend.   I grew up there and it was a natural progression for me to take my kids there too....but it isn't without inner conflict that I'm really tuning in to.

Sure....the food trucks, music, etc. - that's what I'm drawn to on a sunny Saturday.  The horse racing could end tomorrow and I'd be quite happy.   Because I HAVE seen the animals who've suffered out there on the track as the tragedy tarp goes up.  And it rattles me to my core.  The sickness in the pit of my stomach usually ends the fun element in the day and, often, we just are done at that point.  It's hard to ignore and just go on in a business as usual way.  When that beautiful creature you're just taken a picture of in the parade to the post is suddenly....gone.

 

Those who truly "love their animals like family" don't have to profit from them - proof's in when they don't bring in a buck for you and how you treat them when they're no longer seen as "an investment".  Not an asset with potential earning power - of course they're treated "well".  But that only goes so far.  Keeping them alive is important too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

If money is all you see in life, you're missing a whole lot of other, important stuff.

 

The name calling, in itself, says much more about you than it does the people who make choices that differ from yours.  It's called stereotyping...and it's weak.  It's juvenile and has really grated on the nerves as someone who tries to see both sides.  

 

Try to present a well thought out argument without the grade 7 bully stuff.  People are much more likely to listen.

 

"Save the world" is kind of important, yet you slough it off like it's something dismissive.   Try to think outside the box.

 

The world evolves over time and, thank God, there are empathetic, compassionate people driving that as the neanderthals (dark den men?) stay stuck in their caves (see, two can play at that game, although I'd rather not).

You do realize rodeo isn't just for the money for a lot of people it's a way of life. 

Rodeo is history and rodeo has come a long way and the care the animals get is top notch and when people that know nothing run their mouth before doing any research are the true Neanderthals......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

You do realize rodeo isn't just for the money for a lot of people it's a way of life. 

Rodeo is history and rodeo has come a long way and the care the animals get is top notch and when people that know nothing run their mouth before doing any research are the true Neanderthals......

Rodeo is a way of life.

Rodeo is history.

Lots of things were "ways of life" and "history" and then ... they weren't because we do evolve over time as we learn to evaluate things on an ongoing basis.

 

I've done research.  My family is fully immersed in the rodeo/racing business.  I have a sister in law and niece who barrel race.  I have a cousin who trains race horses (and owns several).  She practically lives at the Cloverdale rodeo grounds.  
 

So please.

 I am not a "go with the flow" - I don't support something because it's "always been".  We would have never abolished slavery if people didn't challenge "history" and "ways of life".  Sure, on a different magnitude when you're dealing with humans...but the same mentality that, somehow, we're more entitled than other living people/creatures.  If there's suffering involved, the reasons (excuses) start to matter little as you explore that end of things.

The horse that dies in a horribly traumatic death isn't "a way of life" for everyone.  Some of us actually count that as more than a blip on the radar.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

All I know is that if I hear the words "Chuckwagon Race", the first image that pops into my head is dead horses. Why is that? Because EVERY YEAR horses die at the Calgary Stampede competing in a crazy dangerous pointless exercise called a chuckwagon race. But hey, I eat meat so I guess that makes me some kind of SJW hypocrite that has no right to speak about anything because reasons. Does anybody else believe the only reason we get so much coverage of the Stampede every July is because CBC has to fulfill a certain quota of Canadian content, regardless if nobody outside of Calgary is actually watching onTV? I mean, seriously, how many time have you ever heard this; "Hey, come on over every night this week and we'll have a Calgary Stampede watch party/barbecue/tailgate party." Me either.

Isn’t that true with most of the tv content nowadays?

Stampede is not something that interests me, but there are people in western Canada that obviously enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

Rodeo is a way of life.

Rodeo is history.

Lots of things were "ways of life" and "history" and then ... they weren't because we do evolve over time as we learn to evaluate things on an ongoing basis.

 

I've done research.  My family is fully immersed in the rodeo/racing business.  I have a sister in law and niece who barrel race.  I have a cousin who trains race horses (and owns several).  She practically lives at the Cloverdale rodeo grounds.
 

So please.

Aslong as there's ranchers and Cowboys and cowgirls there will be rodeo. 

Oh cool. I use to bull ride and also trained ranch horses so I get  it. 

Rodeo is the way it is ,as a rough stock rider I've never cared for the timed event other then barrels. 

Rodeo has evolved and it's called the PBR. Those Bulls get paid and also taken care like champs hell they've gotten better care then I have over the years ha 

they are breed for it but they have to show they will buck ....no one forces them. They put dummies straps on them and if a bull doesn't like it then he won't show promise just like race horses they either have it or not. 

I didn't mean you when I said people don't use research. Dealing with someone like the king that I know doesn't do research kinda ticks me off

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

5 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Aslong as there's ranchers and Cowboys and cowgirls there will be rodeo. 

Oh cool. I use to bull ride and also trained ranch horses so I get  it. 

Rodeo is the way it is ,as a rough stock rider I've never cared for the timed event other then barrels. 

Rodeo has evolved and it's called the PBR. Those Bulls get paid and also taken care like champs hell they've gotten better care then I have over the years ha 

they are breed for it but they have to show they will buck ....no one forces them. They put dummies straps on them and if a bull doesn't like it then he won't show promise just like race horses they either have it or not. 

I didn't mean you when I said people don't use research. Dealing with someone like the king that I know doesn't do research kinda ticks me off

As stated, I'm conflicted (and a bit of a hypocrite because I DO go to/support the track).

 

But I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a growing demand to treat animals ethically and humanely that I am fully behind.  

 

If my entertainment means subjecting animals to traumatic injury and or treatment - then I'm done.  I can find something better to do.

 

Again - the animals don't sign on for it and there are some images that stick in my mind (heart) that tell me this isn't as great, for them, as people want us to believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

 Whatever.  Why do you read a thread on the stampede evolving if you have no interest in the topic.

Very weird.    

Rodeos are beautiful. They are cultural. They are Social. They are fundamental, even to people who live in the city. They showcase beautiful creatures of the earth in a way that they were bred for. They showcase animal husbandry, which is a way of life and very impressive the more you understand it. You see animals being "stressed", I see the world turning like it always has. Some horses die, some cowboys have their faces bashed in, but that's not the point, that is not the entertainment. It's not like NASCAR where there is literally nothing to look forward to except for the occasional carnage, you have it all wrong. Take some kids to a rodeo and tell me how terrible a place it is.

 

If you don't like feed lot's and slaughterhouses, you should have a real appreciation for what the rodeo is: It's life happening before your eyes, maybe you don't realize it for what it is.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Boeserker said:

Rodeos are beautiful. They are cultural. They are Social. They are fundamental, even to people who live in the city. They showcase beautiful creatures of the earth in a way that they were bred for. They showcase animal husbandry, which is a way of life and very impressive the more you understand it. You see animals being "stressed", I see the world turning like it always has. Some horses die, some cowboys have their faces bashed in, but that's not the point, that is not the entertainment. It's not like NASCAR where there is literally nothing to look forward to except for the occasional carnage, you have it all wrong. Take some kids to a rodeo and tell me how terrible a place it is.

 

If you don't like feed lot's and slaughterhouses, you should have a real appreciation for what the rodeo is: It's life happening before your eyes, maybe you don't realize it for what it is.

Replace the word "rodeos" with "animals".

 

Also, "the world turning like it always has".

 

It changes, over time.  All things do.  And kids love everything that involves a carnival like environment.  Throw some balloons up and tell them it's a party and they're in.  

 

I don't buy this marketing spiel.  At all.  Sounds like a pile of cow poop to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

As stated, I'm conflicted (and a bit of a hypocrite because I DO go to/support the track).

 

But I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a growing demand to treat animals ethically and humanely that I am fully behind.  

 

If my entertainment means subjecting animals to traumatic injury and or treatment - then I'm done.  I can find something better to do.

I agree 100% sorry for sounding like an @$$...  It's why I support the pbr cause vets check them before an after rides. Also I've seen a lot of Bulls enjoy it...also with injuries.....every spot has them and usually Bulls get hurt in wet conditions cause they slip....just like you said the track. 

Thats why is this thread was named differently like against the chuck wagon races I would understand but to condem all rodeo is a lil stretch

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I agree 100% sorry for sounding like an @$$...  It's why I support the pbr cause vets check them before an after rides. Also I've seen a lot of Bulls enjoy it...also with injuries.....every spot has them and usually Bulls get hurt in wet conditions cause they slip....just like you said the track. 

Thats why is this thread was named differently like against the chuck wagon races I would understand but to condem all rodeo is a lil stretch

Thank you, for having a reasonable discussion.

 

The bull riding...sure.  I get that - they're big, strong and probably do love to throw people around like rag dolls.  Those guys are crazy.

 

But some of it ... I just can't.  Not all - but the stuff that really does show animals in distress and/or hurt.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

Thank you, for having a reasonable discussion.

 

The bull riding...sure.  I get that - they're big, strong and probably do love to throw people around like rag dolls.  Those guys are crazy.

 

But some of it ... I just can't.  Not all - but the stuff that really does show animals in distress and/or hurt.

You mean the calf roping and steer wrestling ? Which I agree with you on that.  

Most people that go to rodeos go for the rough stock ha and everything else is just a side show. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Positive re-enforcement is the best way your train dogs. Doesn't have to be treats like Rowdy C points out, but they help especially in the early days.

Sure yelling and smacking can work. Not nearly as well, you will be more frustrated and run a higher the risk of having a fearful or aggressive dog.

 

I have a long history with dogs. Boarding kennel business on the farm as a kid. Bred Rotties, and still have a large pack through out our fam of Rotts, Shepherds, Huskies, even a Dachshund...my dog is a Blue Heeler/ GSP.

 

My dog is the envy of the park. Her recall is brilliant, immediate and she is very confident. A far sight form the fearful state she was in when I recused her.

Part of that is how smart Heelers are but I swear once I fully understood how to mark and praise/reward positive behavior the days got way easier. I went to pro trainers that work with service and agility dogs. Worth my investment. 

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Replace the word "rodeos" with "animals".

 

Also, "the world turning like it always has".

 

It changes, over time.  All things do.  And kids love everything that involves a carnival like environment.  Throw some balloons up and tell them it's a party and they're in.  

 

I don't buy this marketing spiel.  At all.  Sounds like a pile of cow poop to me.

 

See what you want to see. 

 

It has evolved, a lot.

 

Animals are now considered sentient beings and not property. Nobody is kicking and beating animals at the rodeo, that is complete non-sense. KoS said what, 61 horses over 35 years or something like that? In the context of the hundreds of thousands of horses that have attended in that time, I don't think it sounds that crazy. Alarmists sitting in tidy little boxes, living in tiny little bubbles might read more into, I guess.

 

Marketing? Not sure what you are on about here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

I understand this - as someone who's family has been involved in the horse racing industry over the years.

 

However, it all needs re-assessing at times.  If it puts people and animals at risk for "entertainment" value.  

 

The problem is, the animals can't consent to whether or not they want to participate.  So it's all good and well to just assume they love it....because they're "bred" that way.  They don't have a say.

 

Truth be told, I can't even watch the horses run at Hastings and if they stopped that element of things tomorrow, I'd still go to "the track".  Because it's mostly, for me, an outdoor venue with spectacular scenery that families can go to on the weekend.   I grew up there and it was a natural progression for me to take my kids there too....but it isn't without inner conflict that I'm really tuning in to.

Sure....the food trucks, music, etc. - that's what I'm drawn to on a sunny Saturday.  The horse racing could end tomorrow and I'd be quite happy.   Because I HAVE seen the animals who've suffered out there on the track as the tragedy tarp goes up.  And it rattles me to my core.  The sickness in the pit of my stomach usually ends the fun element in the day and, often, we just are done at that point.  It's hard to ignore and just go on in a business as usual way.  When that beautiful creature you're just taken a picture of in the parade to the post is suddenly....gone.

 

Those who truly "love their animals like family" don't have to profit from them - proof's in when they don't bring in a buck for you and how you treat them when they're no longer seen as "an investment".  Not an asset with potential earning power - of course they're treated "well".  But that only goes so far.  Keeping them alive is important too.

Horse racing at the lowest levels - Hastings - is disgusting.  They live in small stalls, in terribly dirty barns with poor ventilation, and are sold for meat if they can’t run.  Rodeo animals live on ranches.  Completely different treatment of the animal.  

No horse cannot give consent.  However, much like taking a border collie dog out to work the cattle, the horses do love to work too.  It’s what they were bred to do.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

However, much like taking a border collie dog out to work the cattle, the horses do love to work too.  It’s what they were bred to do.

Huh, it’s almost like you know about animals.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Monty said:

Huh, it’s almost like you know about animals.

I’m a farm boy.  Now living in an ugly high rise in town :sick:  Much prefer the smells of the animals and the farm, to the car exhaust of town.  Oh boy, I can see BC Place from my concrete bee hive!  Again ... :sick:  

Don’t like to see animals mistreated, but understand they have jobs they need to do to be sane.  

 

Edited by Alflives
  • Cheers 1
  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I’m a farm boy.  Now living in an ugly high rise in town :sick:  Much prefer the smells of the animals and the farm, to the car exhaust of town.  Oh boy, I can see BC Place from my concrete bee hive!  Again ... :sick:  

Don’t like to see animals mistreated.  

 

There’s nothing I miss about living in the Lower Mainland. Visiting? Absolutely. Definitely a preference for people, and I much prefer the country life in MB to city living anywhere. Can always visit a city, and do. So much more relaxed and at peace away from it all, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Horse racing at the lowest levels - Hastings - is disgusting.  They live in small stalls, in terribly dirty barns with poor ventilation, and are sold for meat if they can’t run.  Rodeo animals live on ranches.  Completely different treatment of the animal.  

No horse cannot give consent.  However, much like taking a border collie dog out to work the cattle, the horses do love to work too.  It’s what they were bred to do.  

Hmmm, not true (re sold for meat) ... Greener Pastures and other destinations are what I know of.  

 

Some of the horses I know from Hastings live up the road from me...on a beautiful acreage on farmland.  Could be some hidden stuff I don't know about, but that's what I do know.  It's what happens at the track that has me rethinking my love of this "sport".  I've seen too many tarps go up...

 

Border collies are out in a more natural setting.  Not in a crowded fair ground with beer gardens, whips and other "motivating" factors.  

A chuckwagon on an open trail?  Sure.

Racing in side by side proximity on a track?  Not so much.

 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Monty said:

There’s nothing I miss about living in the Lower Mainland. Visiting? Absolutely. Definitely a preference for people, and I much prefer the country life in MB a to city living anywhere. Can always visit a city, and do. So much more relaxed and at peace away from it all, though.

I know the prairie cities quite well, and like that each in not surrounded by suburbia.  (Although Calgary is heading that Way.)

I need my concrete cell now, but greatly miss the farm.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...