the grinder Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said: I do hope you’re right. Still - if the package that I suggest could give this team another Pettersson caliber prospect (while helping us with what I perceive to be our upcoming cap issues, isn’t that a deal you make 10 out of 10 times?). no it not gonna happen no gm is doing that if your drafting number 1 and u have the next Crosby sitting there , your gonna trade him away for that lol you wouldn't be the gm the next day , , don't you read the forums before you post if jim benning had a number one over all pick and traded it away there would be a riot like duh Edited July 16, 2019 by the grinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, the grinder said: no it not gonna happen no gm is doing that if your drafting number 1 and u have the next Crosby sitting there , your gonna trade him away for that lol you wouldn't be the gm the next day , , don't you read the forums before you post if jim benning had a number one over all pick and traded it away there would be a riot like duh My proposed package won’t land 1st overall (I don’t think I said otherwise?) but it should land you into the Top 7.....possibly Top 5. I’m not entirely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said: My point exactly. Can you imagine one of those guys being added to our current core of Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Horvat, and Markstrom?......and Podkolzin in two seasons? The Canucks post July 2021 would be deadly AF. And without cap issues. Well that wasn't your original proposal, so no that trade wouldn't be good at all for us. As for the specific hypothetical of those top players, a team wouldn't give up one of those guys for that package. We can't lose the depth we've finally made. Not a good proposal for either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think Virtanen, Gaudette, Stecher, Tryamkin and Demko are key to the future of this club. There may come a time when JB has to make a choice between Marky and Demko, if both are clearly starting goalies and he may not be able to afford to keep them both. But there is a LONG way to go until 2021-22, don’t panic it could be something like this: Ferland (3.5) Pettersson (10) Boeser (7) Miller (5.25) Horvat (5.5) Podkolzin (1) Hoglander (1) Gaudette (2) Virtanen (2.5) Roussel (3) Beagle (3) MacEwen (1) Motte (1.25) Total F = $46m Hughes (6) Myers (6) Juolevi (2) Stecher (4) Tryamkin (4) Woo (1) Fantenberg (1) Rafferty (1) Total D = $25m Markstrom (5) Demko (2.5) Total G = $7.5m Luongo recapture = $3m TOTAL CAP HIT = $81.5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Canadian said: Five players individually who are all possibly worth a 1st round pick........for one pick? I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't do it. One franchise player can't carry you to the playoffs ie: McDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 44 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: I think Virtanen, Gaudette, Stecher, Tryamkin and Demko are key to the future of this club. There may come a time when JB has to make a choice between Marky and Demko, if both are clearly starting goalies and he may not be able to afford to keep them both. But there is a LONG way to go until 2021-22, don’t panic it could be something like this: Ferland (3.5) Pettersson (10) Boeser (7) Miller (5.25) Horvat (5.5) Podkolzin (1) Hoglander (1) Gaudette (2) Virtanen (2.5) Roussel (3) Beagle (3) MacEwen (1) Motte (1.25) Total F = $46m Hughes (6) Myers (6) Juolevi (2) Stecher (4) Tryamkin (4) Woo (1) Fantenberg (1) Rafferty (1) Total D = $25m Markstrom (5) Demko (2.5) Total G = $7.5m Luongo recapture = $3m TOTAL CAP HIT = $81.5m That’s a pretty good projection. However - with regards to that defense you posted, is it realistic? Is Juolevi projecting to be a 2nd pairing dman right now? Even if he becomes borderline, is Stecher worthy enough to carry Juolevi? On that top pairing, Hughes and Myers will be able to bring offensively obviously, but do you think those guys will be a train wreck defensively? Since injuries to defense is almost inevitable during a season, do you think that above defense would be considered to be deep?.......or, much like the previous 4 years, that defense would be 1-2 injuries away from looking very anemic? The Canucks can walk away from Edler in two years If they want to, but I’d highly recommend that the 6 million be re-invested into another top 4 dman of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Hindustan Smyl said: That’s a pretty good projection. However - with regards to that defense you posted, is it realistic? Is Juolevi projecting to be a 2nd pairing dman right now? Even if he becomes borderline, is Stecher worthy enough to carry Juolevi? On that top pairing, Hughes and Myers will be able to bring offensively obviously, but do you think those guys will be a train wreck defensively? Since injuries to defense is almost inevitable during a season, do you think that above defense would be considered to be deep?.......or, much like the previous 4 years, that defense would be 1-2 injuries away from looking very anemic? The Canucks can walk away from Edler in two years If they want to, but I’d highly recommend that the 6 million be re-invested into another top 4 dman of some kind. All good questions for in 2 years time. I personally see Juolevi-Stecher and Tryamkin-Woo projecting as potentially very strong pairings, equivalent to two second pairings. But only time will tell. No point in throwing away all of their potential for a single pick IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrCanuck94 said: Well that wasn't your original proposal, so no that trade wouldn't be good at all for us. Perhaps something was lost in the interpretation, but I’m pretty sure I said “lottery pick in 2020.” But again - I’m not an expert capologist and so perhaps we would still be able to re-up all/most of our RFA’s. I’m just not seeing the Math however. I’ve seen a few people illustrate examples of where Edler and Tanev money would go towards Pettersson and Hughes, but I think these people are also assuming too much with regards to our defensive prospects: Hughes-Myers Tryamkin-Stecher Juolevi-Woo Is not a playoff caliber defense in my opinion, nor does it project to be two years from now. Hopefully, I am wrong. Edited July 16, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: All good questions for in 2 years time. I personally see Juolevi-Stecher and Tryamkin-Woo projecting as potentially very strong pairings, equivalent to two second pairings. But only time will tell. No point in throwing away all of their potential for a single pick IMO. Fair enough. For the record, I *don’t* want to trade all of those promising prospects for a single pick. Unfortunately, I’m just not confident that we will have the cap space to sign Brock, Markstrom, Pettersson, Hughes, and (Edler/Tanev/10.5 million re-invested into another top 4 dman) and so there might not be another way around it. But again - I’m not a capolgist and so I would love to be proven wrong. Edited July 16, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 35 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said: Fair enough. For the record, I *don’t* want to trade all of those promising prospects for a single pick. Unfortunately, I’m just not confident that we will have the cap space to sign Brock, Markstrom, Pettersson, Hughes, and (Edler/Tanev/10.5 million re-invested into another top 4 dman) and so there might not be another way around it. But again - I’m not a capolgist and so I would love to be proven wrong. I know you don’t WANT to trade those guys and that your heart is in the right place, that you just want to be sure that we can stay competitive. Have no fear. It will work out. The straw man roster I outlined in 2021-22 is unlikely to be accurate, there are so many potential changes, including the Seattle expansion. Interesting point you make about Hughes-Myers potentially not being defensively sound. I have a feeling that Hughes is going to be very dependable in his own end and not a liability. Perhaps even the stronger defender in that possible pairing. But I like Myers size with Hughes and his puck moving ability that I hope will gel with Quin. It is quite possible this is not the pairing you match up against the opposition’s top line. I also think that, rather than looking to sign Barrie as a UFA next year, we should be focused on developing a very strong defensive D corps to compliment Hughes and Myers. I truly believe that Juolevi, Woo and Tryamkin will provide that. I have said it before, and been soundly reprimanded by several posters because we can’t afford him, but the guy I feel we truly need on this roster is Brett Pesce. I would trade any player and picks (except EP, BB, BH or QH) for him: Hughes Pesce Tryamkin Myers Juolevi Stecher Fantenberg Woo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Hindustan Smyl said: Perhaps something was lost in the interpretation, but I’m pretty sure I said “lottery pick in 2020.” A lottery pick is any pick from 1-15. The 15th pick isn't worth that package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: A lottery pick is any pick from 1-15. The 15th pick isn't worth that package. Fair enough. I am at fault for using that ‘term’. What I meant to say was my proposed package should be able to get you into the Top 7......perhaps higher? I’m not exactly sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindustan Smyl Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, BigTramFan said: I know you don’t WANT to trade those guys and that your heart is in the right place, that you just want to be sure that we can stay competitive. Have no fear. It will work out. The straw man roster I outlined in 2021-22 is unlikely to be accurate, there are so many potential changes, including the Seattle expansion. Interesting point you make about Hughes-Myers potentially not being defensively sound. I have a feeling that Hughes is going to be very dependable in his own end and not a liability. Perhaps even the stronger defender in that possible pairing. But I like Myers size with Hughes and his puck moving ability that I hope will gel with Quin. It is quite possible this is not the pairing you match up against the opposition’s top line. I also think that, rather than looking to sign Barrie as a UFA next year, we should be focused on developing a very strong defensive D corps to compliment Hughes and Myers. I truly believe that Juolevi, Woo and Tryamkin will provide that. I have said it before, and been soundly reprimanded by several posters because we can’t afford him, but the guy I feel we truly need on this roster is Brett Pesce. I would trade any player and picks (except EP, BB, BH or QH) for him: Hughes Pesce Tryamkin Myers Juolevi Stecher Fantenberg Woo Pesce would be awesome, but I can’t see Carolina giving him up. A young solid defensively responsible RD at a great cap hit is extremely valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said: My proposed package won’t land 1st overall (I don’t think I said otherwise?) but it should land you into the Top 7.....possibly Top 5. I’m not entirely sure. lol again what ever it s not gonna happen and besides that your really unsure about the value of players and where the picks is gonna fall , like I said we got horvat for scheinder and Horvat was around 10 , your giving way too much up for 7 to 15 pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said: I read it and it’s not bad, but I’d like to see more details if possible. Here is a detailed breakdown of what I came up with a few days ago: The part in Quotations was my analysis *without* Ferland. My response to my quote was me adding in the Ferland salary. Please feel free to correct. How can I give more details? I gave an outline of what we could look like and we’ll have roughly $26M left to spend with the current salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I am a bit surprised this tread is still going. I am not sure this would be wise. Its a lot to give a way for a top 10 or 12 prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think we need to be realistic about our needs. As much as I like the recent additions, the players we have added aren't exactly ideal. Miller might be enough as a 2nd liner, but with Bo continuing to improve he still isn't the high end 2nd liner we need. That goes for Baer, Ferland, and Pearson as well even moreso. So I say we need 2 up and coming high skill wingers. If Benning feels Polkozin and Hoglander are those guys, then thar helps a ton and we are almost there. Our D could use another star scorer for sure, and we don't have anyone in the pipeline to fill that role. We cannot afford an established guy, so that means a high end prospect or high draft pick (preferably the former as we are getting ready to compete now). Where is this guy going to come from? At some point, I see us trading quantity for quality. Problem is that really high quality is really expensive. Clearly Colorado will be keeping Byram but what would it take to pry a high end prospect like that from a team? 1st mid round pick Lind Sautner Gadjovich Madden Does a package like this even get a look for a top prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, kloubek said: I think we need to be realistic about our needs. As much as I like the recent additions, the players we have added aren't exactly ideal. Miller might be enough as a 2nd liner, but with Bo continuing to improve he still isn't the high end 2nd liner we need. That goes for Baer, Ferland, and Pearson as well even moreso. So I say we need 2 up and coming high skill wingers. If Benning feels Polkozin and Hoglander are those guys, then thar helps a ton and we are almost there. Our D could use another star scorer for sure, and we don't have anyone in the pipeline to fill that role. We cannot afford an established guy, so that means a high end prospect or high draft pick (preferably the former as we are getting ready to compete now). Where is this guy going to come from? At some point, I see us trading quantity for quality. Problem is that really high quality is really expensive. Clearly Colorado will be keeping Byram but what would it take to pry a high end prospect like that from a team? 1st mid round pick Lind Sautner Gadjovich Madden Does a package like this even get a look for a top prospect? Madden and Lind are top prospects. Why would we trade them for another top prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/15/2019 at 11:17 AM, Canadian said: Five players individually who are all possibly worth a 1st round pick........for one pick? They individually are not worth first rounders. Virtanen is probably just worth a second. Gaudette too probably. Baertschi's career at Jake's age wasn't too dissimilar and he was traded for a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Alflives said: Madden and Lind are top prospects. Why would we trade them for another top prospect? Madden is a decent prospect. Not a top one imo. Lind is a complete unknown at this point with promise. I'm saying... Perhaps throwing a large quantity of what you call top prospects at a team and a draft pick in exchange for a near *surefire* scoring defensive star isn't a horrible idea? Then we get a second high-end defenseman (as Hughes is going to be) as opposed to a bunch of guys we are simply hopeful for. I mean - does that ever happen? A team wants to kickstart a rebuild or something so they get a large quantity package in exchange for their one budding star in their depleted prospect pool? We already have the team we have signed long term or will sign long term. The extras - like 3rd/4th line guys can be replaced with the remaining third tier prospects. If all we need is that one more star... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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