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Bure_Pavel

(Discussion) RD Depth

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I believe we are 1 legtimate RHD away from being a playoff team.

Tanev imo will be traded before season starts. some one like Rasmus Ristolinen could give us a huge boost. Luongo cap recapture and eriksson contract really hit us hard.

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Gillis just wrote this in an article 

 

Gillis is inspired by the bigger picture: challenging the dimensions of the NHL rink and the time of day teams practice, suggesting a complete overhaul of traditional scouting processes, and imagining a future where a team dresses five forwards and a goalie (seriously).


If the trend of successful teams is towards puck carrying offensive defence man than it could be an option to put a forward back there. What about Jake Virtanen lol 


He likes to carry the puck. Might have more luck as a defence man. 

 

Maybe Tyler Motte? 


or maybe not lol 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

 


If the trend of successful teams is towards puck carrying offensive defence man than it could be an option to put a forward back there. What about Jake Virtanen lol 


He likes to carry the puck. Might have more luck as a defence man. 

 

Maybe Tyler Motte? 


or maybe not lol 

 

 

 

 

He did lead the team in Takeaways (followed by Petey, among the forwards, and Stecher in between them)

What about Petey and Jake as penalty killers?  We know speed kills in PK-ing (hello Bure and Russ Courtnall!!) and Jake and EP both have that extra gear

 

Petey would need to improve his f/o percentage though.  Sub .500 doesn't cut it.  I hope he is working on that as well as his shot over the summer

 

 

Edited by Googlie

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I'm more comfortable with what we have than I am moving a significant asset for another right D that will most likely end up sitting more than half the season.

 

Benn being able to play both sides gives us some options, and I'd like to see Juolevi on the main club at some point this season. If we take a long term injury to someone on the right side, I could see Benn moving over and Juolevi making the jump to play on the bottom pairing. And I'm not uncomfortable with Biega anyways. Notched 16 points in 41 games for us last season, and managed to stay at an even rating despite being on a bad team. I imagine most teams would be pretty thrilled to get that out of their 7th Dman.

 

Here's an article on Biega from CanucksArmy that breaks down some of the numbers. 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/04/17/canucksarmy-year-in-review-alex-biega-2/

 

 

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There are no perfect teams.  Our right D really looks to have 3 guys who's ideal situation would be second pairing, #4 type guys in Myers, Tanev and Stetcher.  Benn can slide over as I think can Fantenberg and Quinn could as well.  Biega we know plays either side.  

Then we have Chatfield.  Not sure if Sautner can slide over.

Thats 9 guys who may be able to play the right side competently if not at an all star level.  If we get enough quality out of the left with Quinn and Edler we should be fine.   If Juolevi can come in and play that will look really good, if he is not here till around Christmas that may be the best thing for him.

Centre is a position that is now looking like a strength and is improving with the expected progression of Pettey, Bo and Gaudette.  

Wing looks much, much better this year than last and if Markstrom is the Markstrom he developed into last year this is a solid if not spectacular group.

I really look forward to seeing this group develop together.  Would hope to see some of the "retool" mistakes continue to get moved out through the season to allow some more of the young guys to play in the NHL.  

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7 hours ago, Nuck1991 said:

I believe we are 1 legtimate RHD away from being a playoff team.

Tanev imo will be traded before season starts. some one like Rasmus Ristolinen could give us a huge boost. Luongo cap recapture and eriksson contract really hit us hard.

Risto would be a nice addition but we are in a tight spot cap wise to take on that contract without move the same if not more back. I also find it funny how a few poster SHAT on my idea of getting Shattenkirk back in a possibly Eriksson deal...He is a RHD, can run a PP and for being so poor defensively he has never been worse than -15 in a season I believe...compared to Risto that looks amazing just based on the stat line of course.

 

 

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Risto would be a great add  Traded for Virtanen plus as long as it isn't a first  Stecher,

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57 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Risto would be a nice addition but we are in a tight spot cap wise to take on that contract without move the same if not more back. I also find it funny how a few poster SHAT on my idea of getting Shattenkirk back in a possibly Eriksson deal...He is a RHD, can run a PP and for being so poor defensively he has never been worse than -15 in a season I believe...compared to Risto that looks amazing just based on the stat line of course.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, vannuck59 said:

Risto would be a great add  Traded for Virtanen plus as long as it isn't a first  Stecher,

Sutter + Virtanen... Would you?

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4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sutter + Virtanen... Would you?

For Ristolainen?  Absolutely.  Risto would be great in our top four.  Plus, he pushes the play.  Something is off in Buffalo for Risto to be such a big minus player.   

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8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sutter + Virtanen... Would you?

Frick yes all day long . Ristolainen would make this team away better.

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53 42 55

thats how many games Tanev has played in the last 3 years.  

Lets be optimistic and say he plays 60.  

Thats still 22 games we will need a replacement for, and that’s just one player.

If Biega plays that many games, our defence is trash.    

We are on our way, but man our depth is crap.    

Still need to ditch a couple bad contracts before this team can really be a threat.  

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16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

For Ristolainen?  Absolutely.  Risto would be great in our top four.  Plus, he pushes the play.  Something is off in Buffalo for Risto to be such a big minus player.   

Statistically, he’s an elite player on the power play, but maybe 3rd pair level at evens (arguably below replacement at even strength defensive play).

 

38C308F4-A248-420A-BCDB-AB00DC5C19ED.jpeg.e04c259ef5551755e3647cdbb6fc33fa.jpeg

4531A2FC-7B7A-4F2F-99C5-CF1F908AA032.jpeg.637585391501efac09f645216f07d4bc.jpeg

Basically profiles as a player who provides massive value on the man advantage, but negative value at even strength, driven by poor defensive zone play, especially in terms of both defending against zone entries, creating zone exits, and bleeding shots in his own zone.

 

Regular viewers of the Sabres can comment on how much this reflects in the eye test, but the numbers tell me that, at over 24 minutes a night, he’s getting too much usage at even strength, especially for a player who only really benefits his team on the man advantage. If the statistical profile continues, as far as a career defining trend, he’s most likely best utilized as a specialist, earning 1PP duties, and reduced, sheltered minutes at even strength.

 

He’s young though, and has a big bag of tools, so he might settle down his even strength game, and become capable of bringing neutral to positive value at evens, plus some big time value on the man advantage. He just hadn’t done that yet (as far as the even strength side of his game).

 

To date, his minuses look earned, on the back of some very poor even strength results that truly hurt his team, and playing too many minutes doing just that: hurting his team at even strength.

 

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1 minute ago, drummerboy said:

53 42 55

thats how many games Tanev has played in the last 3 years.  

Lets be optimistic and say he plays 60.  

Thats still 22 games we will need a replacement for, and that’s just one player.

If Biega plays that many games, our defence is trash.    

We are on our way, but man our depth is crap.    

Still need to ditch a couple bad contracts before this team can really be a threat.  

Did you even read 48MPH post above?

Here is the link to the article again:

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/04/17/canucksarmy-year-in-review-alex-biega-2/

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5 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Statistically, he’s an elite player on the power play, but maybe 3rd pair level at evens (arguably below replacement at even strength defensive play).

 

38C308F4-A248-420A-BCDB-AB00DC5C19ED.jpeg.e04c259ef5551755e3647cdbb6fc33fa.jpeg

4531A2FC-7B7A-4F2F-99C5-CF1F908AA032.jpeg.637585391501efac09f645216f07d4bc.jpeg

Basically profiles as a player who provides massive value on the man advantage, but negative value at even strength, driven by poor defensive zone play, especially in terms of both defending against zone entries, creating zone exits, and bleeding shots in his own zone.

 

Regular viewers of the Sabres can comment on how much this reflects in the eye test, but the numbers tell me that, at over 24 minutes a night, he’s getting too much usage at even strength, especially for a player who only really benefits his team on the man advantage. If the statistical profile continues, as far as a career defining trend, he’s most likely best utilized as a specialist, earning 1PP duties, and reduced, sheltered minutes at even strength.

 

He’s young though, and has a big bag of tools, so he might settle down his even strength game, and become capable of bringing neutral to positive value at evens, plus some big time value on the man advantage. He just hadn’t done that yet (as far as the even strength side of his game).

 

To date, his minuses look earned, on the back of some very poor even strength results that truly hurt his team, and playing too many minutes doing just that: hurting his team at even strength.

 

Could his poor play at 5 on 5 be tied to terrible goaltending, and forwards who don’t help defensively?  

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3 hours ago, Googlie said:

He did lead the team in Takeaways (followed by Petey, among the forwards, and Stecher in between them)

What about Petey and Jake as penalty killers?  We know speed kills in PK-ing (hello Bure and Russ Courtnall!!) and Jake and EP both have that extra gear

 

Petey would need to improve his f/o percentage though.  Sub .500 doesn't cut it.  I hope he is working on that as well as his shot over the summer

 

 

Petey would be a great PK guy.  But we don’t want him doing that.  Jake would be good too.  

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24 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Did you even read 48MPH post above?

Here is the link to the article again:

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/04/17/canucksarmy-year-in-review-alex-biega-2/

I read it.  

So over an extremely small portion of his long struggle with staying in the NHL, he has a solid chunk of playing, and I’m supposed to be impressed?

 

He is a fringe nhler.   Having that in your top 6-7 isn’t a great showing of depth. 

 

I like Biega, but he isn’t a great NHLer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Statistically, he’s an elite player on the power play, but maybe 3rd pair level at evens (arguably below replacement at even strength defensive play).

 

38C308F4-A248-420A-BCDB-AB00DC5C19ED.jpeg.e04c259ef5551755e3647cdbb6fc33fa.jpeg

4531A2FC-7B7A-4F2F-99C5-CF1F908AA032.jpeg.637585391501efac09f645216f07d4bc.jpeg

Basically profiles as a player who provides massive value on the man advantage, but negative value at even strength, driven by poor defensive zone play, especially in terms of both defending against zone entries, creating zone exits, and bleeding shots in his own zone.

 

Regular viewers of the Sabres can comment on how much this reflects in the eye test, but the numbers tell me that, at over 24 minutes a night, he’s getting too much usage at even strength, especially for a player who only really benefits his team on the man advantage. If the statistical profile continues, as far as a career defining trend, he’s most likely best utilized as a specialist, earning 1PP duties, and reduced, sheltered minutes at even strength.

 

He’s young though, and has a big bag of tools, so he might settle down his even strength game, and become capable of bringing neutral to positive value at evens, plus some big time value on the man advantage. He just hadn’t done that yet (as far as the even strength side of his game).

 

To date, his minuses look earned, on the back of some very poor even strength results that truly hurt his team, and playing too many minutes doing just that: hurting his team at even strength.

 

You'd also likely see an uptick of his 5v5 play in a less demanding role where he isn't being relied upon as the 24 minute, main match up guy ;)

Edited by aGENT

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On 7/19/2019 at 12:19 PM, Bure_Pavel said:

The Canucks have lots of forward and LD depth for next year, but are you satisfied with the RD depth going into this season:

 

Myers

Tanev

Stetcher

 

Beiga 

Rafferty

 

After the top 3 we have Beiga and Rafferty on the right side. Are you conformable with Beiga playing 30 games in a bottom pairing role? There is a high chance at least one of our RD goes down with injury at some point this season. There is even a chance Tanev is traded, although I can see him walking in free agency. Cap space is very limited and we might have to wait until the Boeser signing but would you like to see the Canucks add another bottom pairing RD via trade, waivers, or signing? Any chance we can acquire another Luke Schenn type player? Some players like Benn can play their offside as well do we just go that route and keep status quo? 

 

***For reference over 10 Dmen last year played at least 15 games for the Canucks. 

Biega is better than most people think. He's active, physical and skates well.  He scored at a 30 point pace last year, around the same output as Myers. Benn also is quite adept at playing the RD position so I wouldn't be too worried about this right now. I'm more concerned about the lack of prospect depth at this position. Woo and Rafferty aren't going to cut it. It would be my priority to address this in the next draft. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 5:19 AM, Bure_Pavel said:

The Canucks have lots of forward and LD depth for next year, but are you satisfied with the RD depth going into this season:

 

Myers

Tanev

Stetcher

 

Beiga 

Rafferty

 

After the top 3 we have Beiga and Rafferty on the right side. Are you conformable with Beiga playing 30 games in a bottom pairing role? There is a high chance at least one of our RD goes down with injury at some point this season. There is even a chance Tanev is traded, although I can see him walking in free agency. Cap space is very limited and we might have to wait until the Boeser signing but would you like to see the Canucks add another bottom pairing RD via trade, waivers, or signing? Any chance we can acquire another Luke Schenn type player? Some players like Benn can play their offside as well do we just go that route and keep status quo? 

 

***For reference over 10 Dmen last year played at least 15 games for the Canucks. 

I'm more concerned about Rafferty being someone we can inject? If required...

 

Biega is fine as a 8th D man.  Plays ok, and plays hard, when called upon.  We could do worse. I'd be disappointed, like at the end of last season, when he was pressed to perform regularly in our top 6.  But grew worse when he went top 4.  That was the price of having Gudbrandson traded. Having signed Myers inbetween? I'm ok with that.

 

But, as you say, defenceman do get injured.  Another poster mentioned Hughes and Benn can crossover, play right side.  I'm rarely a fan of guys on their off side. The same will be said of Tryamkin when he comes (?).

 

My big concern, is if Rafferty is capable of replacing Tanev next year? Or if Woo will be ready...

 

I see Rafferty as a money puck gamble.  Bartkowski & Larsen illustrate how that backfires on D. 

 

 

A smart move, if it were available, would be to trade Tanev to a contender for a young RHD.  

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6 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Statistically, he’s an elite player on the power play, but maybe 3rd pair level at evens (arguably below replacement at even strength defensive play).

 

38C308F4-A248-420A-BCDB-AB00DC5C19ED.jpeg.e04c259ef5551755e3647cdbb6fc33fa.jpeg

4531A2FC-7B7A-4F2F-99C5-CF1F908AA032.jpeg.637585391501efac09f645216f07d4bc.jpeg

Basically profiles as a player who provides massive value on the man advantage, but negative value at even strength, driven by poor defensive zone play, especially in terms of both defending against zone entries, creating zone exits, and bleeding shots in his own zone.

 

Regular viewers of the Sabres can comment on how much this reflects in the eye test, but the numbers tell me that, at over 24 minutes a night, he’s getting too much usage at even strength, especially for a player who only really benefits his team on the man advantage. If the statistical profile continues, as far as a career defining trend, he’s most likely best utilized as a specialist, earning 1PP duties, and reduced, sheltered minutes at even strength.

 

He’s young though, and has a big bag of tools, so he might settle down his even strength game, and become capable of bringing neutral to positive value at evens, plus some big time value on the man advantage. He just hadn’t done that yet (as far as the even strength side of his game).

 

To date, his minuses look earned, on the back of some very poor even strength results that truly hurt his team, and playing too many minutes doing just that: hurting his team at even strength.

 

Its a good post Sid!  

 

He's a good athlete, a good talent. The reason he was a lottery pick. Has the balance, speed, puck skills etc. Its well within possibilities that he learns to play NHL D.  I'd rather bet on him learning to play D?  Than a fringe player who does not have edgework, or skating to believe he could handle incoming forwards.  The pressure of making correct decisions when trying to clear the zone. 

 

He was -9 on one of the worst teams in the league in 2016/17 before they signed Housley. 

 

3 years ago, those defensive problems did not seem as bad.  I'm very curious how he will do with a new coach. A new system. If it was him, or the coach & surrounding talent? I suspect it is a bit of both.  And of course it would have been ideal if he had developed this part of his game already! Is there still time?

 

They say 26 and 27 is the peak years of most defenceman.

 

Tanev at 24 was just becoming a regular, coming off a 69 game career high games played season. His first ''full'' season in the NHL. Risto's current age.

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