(Trade) Lucic + Conditional 3rd to Calgary for Neal

[coryberg]

12 minutes ago, khay said:

lol that's a nice one.

 

At the end of the day, both of these guys are failed signings. It's pointless to say which one is better because they both suck compared to their salaries. Well, at least Lucic is playing and hitting, Eriksson isn't playing much.

 

 

I still wouldn't trade LE for Lucic. That extra year on Milan's contract is a no go

[Shift-4]

On 11/29/2019 at 11:10 PM, canuck73_3 said:

AND a NMC. 

watch him play and the no-move part is in full effect

[Me_]

11 hours ago, coryberg said:

I still wouldn't trade LE for Lucic. That extra year on Milan's contract is a no go

Are you kidding? Lucic has four times more points than Eriksson. 
 

Lucic is beast!

[Me_]

On 11/29/2019 at 1:53 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Probably one of the more lopsided trades in recent memory.  Lucic may be out of the league in 2 years. 

I wonder... drop some weight and hire a full-time speed coach? 

[captainhorvat]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, Me_ said:

I wonder... drop some weight and hire a full-time speed coach? 

The speed coach would quit...

[Monty]

His contract is terrible. However, if the Flames could trade him again, and retain a bit to make his contract (with the retainment from Edmonton) at 50% total, another playoff team would certainly see worth in a player like him for a deep playoff run.

 

But that won’t happen.

[Justdean10]

34 minutes ago, Monty said:

His contract is terrible. However, if the Flames could trade him again, and retain a bit to make his contract (with the retainment from Edmonton) at 50% total, another playoff team would certainly see worth in a player like him for a deep playoff run.

 

But that won’t happen.

He's not worth it at 3 million either. A playoff team could get better players for their playoff run. 

[Monty]

3 minutes ago, Justdean10 said:

He's not worth it at 3 million either. A playoff team could get better players for their playoff run. 

 

38 minutes ago, Monty said:

But that won’t happen.

 

[lmm]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:14 PM, Me_ said:

I wonder... drop some weight and hire a full-time speed coach? 

haha I thought you said SPEECH Coach

he could use that too

[surtur]

On 12/5/2019 at 1:49 PM, captainhorvat said:

The speed coach would quit...

Right haha Gotta have some speed to coach.  

Edited December 10, 2019 by surtur

[Dats hockey]

Imagine putting a goal scorer on your 3rd line and wonder why his production went down and then trade him for the biggest plug ever lol

[Monty]

3 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Imagine putting a goal scorer on your 3rd line and wonder why his production went down and then trade him for the biggest plug ever lol

Out of all the teams to crap on Lucic and his production, I don’t think the Canucks are in any position to point fingers:

 

21 GP

3 PTS

$6M per with two more years

 

Once this contract is off the books, then maybe the Canucks can start laughing.

[dontaylorforprez]

4 hours ago, Monty said:

Out of all the teams to crap on Lucic and his production, I don’t think the Canucks are in any position to point fingers:

 

21 GP

3 PTS

$6M per with two more years

 

Once this contract is off the books, then maybe the Canucks can start laughing.

Considering Lucic only has 9pts in 40 games, does boast well either... I’m still laughing cause both have sucked the last few years. These two players are practically the same player (stat wise) minus a ring and about a foot in height... both teams are still winning regardless of the pylons out there.. still laughing! 

[Dats hockey]

6 hours ago, Monty said:

Out of all the teams to crap on Lucic and his production, I don’t think the Canucks are in any position to point fingers:

 

21 GP

3 PTS

$6M per with two more years

 

Once this contract is off the books, then maybe the Canucks can start laughing.

As a hockey fan I’m allowed to laugh when one of the teams I dislike mess up like Calgary, Neal for Lucic. Lol

[Me_]

2 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

As a hockey fan I’m allowed to laugh when one of the teams I dislike mess up like Calgary, Neal for Lucic. Lol

In all honesty, that trade was a wash until the season started. Then we knew.

 

Then we knew that Edmonton had won the deal. However, it could’ve gone either way for both players.

 

If I recollect clearly, there were a LOT of LOOOOOOCH at the Calgary game against Vancouver. Perhaps THEY appreciate what he brings. Somehow. 

[Salacious Crumb]

14 minutes ago, Me_ said:

In all honesty, that trade was a wash until the season started. Then we knew.

 

Then we knew that Edmonton had won the deal. However, it could’ve gone either way for both players.

 

If I recollect clearly, there were a LOT of LOOOOOOCH at the Calgary game against Vancouver. Perhaps THEY appreciate what he brings. Somehow. 

Did you just say “those people”?

[Me_]

3 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Did you just say “those people”?

Cherry shouldn’t have been fired.

 

And I’m not a Cherry fan.

 

... but no, I didn’t say “those people”; I say “they” as per the post above.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Me_

[PistolPete13]

On 1/1/2020 at 5:38 PM, Me_ said:

In all honesty, that trade was a wash until the season started. Then we knew.

 

Then we knew that Edmonton had won the deal. However, it could’ve gone either way for both players.

 

If I recollect clearly, there were a LOT of LOOOOOOCH at the Calgary game against Vancouver. Perhaps THEY appreciate what he brings. Somehow. 

Have you ever had the food at the Saddledome? Their not “saying” Loooooooch.

[Gaudette Celly]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:38 PM, Me_ said:

If I recollect clearly, there were a LOT of LOOOOOOCH at the Calgary game against Vancouver. Perhaps THEY appreciate what he brings. Somehow. 

And what exactly did he accomplish that game, or all year so far for that matter?  They're desperate to try to get something out of him.  Doubt there's a lot of "appreciation", it'd be like if Sestito was brought back for 5.25x4 with an NMC, hoping that he actually does something.

[oldnews]

Interesting point at which to look at this deal once again, now that the perception that Neal was "all that" should be wearing thinner if anyone looks any closer than his goal production.

 

Never liked the Neal signing at that time (or the Lucic deal - nor was LE a guy I'd targeted at the time - wanted a heavier winger, but that is beside the point, I'm not going to criticize the signing in hindsight).  The main point of this post is this:  Neal is probably one of the more misleading performers in the league this year.

 

So - you have three Western Canadian teams - all neck and neck at the top of the division.  No need to qualify any of these player's performance in the context of playing on good vs bad teams - 1 pt separates the 3.

 

Where I'm going to go against the grain is in the suggestion that this was a great deal for Edmonton because of the results on the ice.  The positive for Edmonton imo was more in shedding Lucic's NMC - I think it's worth looking more closely at what Neal is doing.

 

Neal:

19 goals.  People may stop there and consider it a landslide victory for Edmonton.

However, Neal has 7 even strength goals, and merely 11 even strength pts.  That's actually only 5 more even strength points than Lucic, who by all accounts is a desertified offensive presence.

Neal leads the Coil in ozone starts - 63.8% is the highest on that team / easiest minutes on the team..  He also leads the team with the worst differential between that deployment, and his corsi/on ice shot attempt differential (49.8% corsi).

Where he also leads that team - is in negative goal differential.  -20 in that context is downright awful.   His 'value' - aside from a powerplay goal scorer (with McDrama, Draisaitl, RNH, btw) is resoundingly negative.  In fact, you could make the case that Lucic has been the better 5 on 5 player (where the majority of the game is played).  Neal has an edge in turnover differential (21t, 24g, -3 vs Lucic 10, 25 -15), while Lucic outhits Neal 129-78.

Neal's 17.9% shooting is easily the highest of his career - and 12.9% higher than when he played a comparable depth role to Lucic in Calgary (5%).  Obviously, that shooting percentage is dramatically inflated off the sticks of McDrama, Draisaitl, RNH et al.

I don't think Neal's powerplay production actually outweighs how bad he is 5 on 5.

 

Lucic:

4 goals, 10 pts, even 0, 47.5% ozone starts, 51.9 % corsi

I think it's fair to consider the two players, all things considered to be somewhat of a wash in terms of overall impact, benefit, on the ice.  What Neal gives on the powerplay he takes away at even strength, whereas Lucic is relatively neutral (and himself aided by linemates that are better than he is, particularly Derek Ryan).

 

So for me - the underlying indcator of who won or lost this deal comes down to the contracts.  In looking at NHL numbers, it appears that both Lucic and Neal have 3 years remaining after this?    They are both shown to expire in 2023 - if that is correct, it appears that Calgary is not in fact eating an extra year of term, but just the NMC of Lucic's - which would go to explain why they only received a 3rd - whereas an extra year of term would/should cost significantly more to dump.

Even if we concede the pipe-dream that Lucic waives for the expansion draft - the reality remains - why the hell would Seattle take him when far better, younger, non-declining assets will be available/remain exposed by Calgary?  Calgary imo would have to give up a good asset to persuade Seattle to eat Lucic, and that asset imo would probably be of greater value than the mere 3rd round pick Calgary gained in this deal - however relative to Neal the term seems to actually be equal - which changes my impression of this deal somewhat.

 

But the fun part - for Canucks - is revisiting the snipes at Eriksson taken in this thread.

 

Eriksson

5 goals, 8 pts, +4 in 30 games - all 5 on 5.

39.5% ozone starts, 49.7% corsi

11 takeaways, 2 giveaways +9

Probably goes without saying, but with 1:20 pk/game, the only of these players capable of killing a penatly / aside from a lack of physicality, easily the most versatile of the three.

The most effective 5 on 5 results of the three.

 

Calgary loses - but on the NMC aspect of the deal alone (assuming NHL#s is correct).

Edmonton - meh - Neal remains highly over-rated/misleading - really just a wash of a hockey deal imo upon scratching the surface = neutralized relative 'value'.

 

The interesting part becomes relative to Eriksson - who expires a year before either of them - and unlike Neal, who has no signing bonuses, Eriksson's salary diminishes to 1 million, vs the tradeability of a Neal contract with 5.75 million owing throughout.  Lucic's base salary bumps up to 2.5 million in 2021/22, and carries the NMC throughout.

I still would not deal Eriksson for either of them = the relative joke, as perceived by some people in here, isn't really on Benning.

Edited January 20, 2020 by oldnews