[Proposal] Canucks and Devils

[18W-40C-6W]

As I was looking at cap levels around the league, and was thinking about teams that could use some of our vets, NJ seemed to be a reasonable trading partner.

 

1. They are looking to now leverage a few good drafts in a row  (Hirschier, Hughes) and young adds like Will Butcher to make the playoffs.

 

2. They've added Subban for that reason

 

3. They want to keep Hall and need to show him they are serious about winning now as he's not getting any younger and he wants to compete for a cup, and has stated as such.

 

Therefore, players like Tanev and Sutter could have greater value to them as they look to strengthen their depth in order to compete in the playoffs. They've got 18 players signed with 18 mil in cap space, so there is certainly room,

 

The question is what's the value proposition for both sides for it to make sense. On RD, they have Subban, Severson, Carrick, at center they have Hirschier, Hughes, Zajac, and Zacha. Hughes likely isn't ready to start at C and irrespective of that, any of those skilled centers could work on the wing, and Zacha is better moving up as a winger than handling 3/4c.

 

To me, the depth this trade gives Jersey is very appealing, the issue is cost and what comes back. I would love Severson but no chance, he's young, a right D, good size and has been putting up 30-40 pts last 3 years and is only 24, no chance NJ gives him up.

 

We get cap space and likely want some youth back. The cap space is a big advantage so we can't discount that. My thoughts are

 

Sutter, Tanev, Goldobin (as a sweetener)

 

for

 

Michael Mcleod (good prospect but they have no room for him) and a conditional 2nd (that turns into a first if the Devils make the playoffs (or alternatively on a combined games played by Sutter and Tanev (non injuries) of 100 games). And maybe we take back Carrick to give NJ some added cap room.

 

The devils RD depth would be incredible with Subban/Severson/Tanev - and both Tanev or Sutter could arguably fetch a first at the deadline (if they wanted to move one) if they stay healthy. LD they have Green, Vatanen, Butcher. Arguably NJ would have one of the most mobile and deep D corps in the NHL. That D corps alone gets you into the playoffs.

 

At center now they would have Hirschier, Zajac, Sutter, Zacha and can play Hughes on the wing to ease him in. Any of those guys can move to the wing should Hughes show he can handle it but Sutter as a real shut down C again bolsters their playoff chances materially.

 

Goldy is a nice piece that offsets Mcleod, and is NHL ready depth who may fit in nicely with their young talent

 

For us, we get our first rounder back (assuming they meet the conditions), a nice young forward prospect in Mcleod, who is a great skater, has size, a real competitor from scouting reports and is a right handed C, plus we get lots of cap space from players we don't 'need' any more.

 

Devils make the playoffs, Hall is happy and re-signs as well.

Edited July 21, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[Baer.]

Devils laugh and hang up the phone. Jack Hughes most certainly is ready to be a top-6 center in the league right away. Why would a rebuilding new jersey team trade one of their top shelf prospects AND a high pick for two injury prone veterans on the back ends of their careers, and an unsigned Goldobin who has not proven he can be an NHL regular. In no way, shape, or form does he make up for losing McLeod.

 

I don't see how this helps the devils in any way. Sutter wouldn't even make their roster, as you stated they are very deep at center. Tanev could help them, but then you might as well just sign Gardiner without giving up 2 really good prospects.

[18W-40C-6W]

1 hour ago, Baer. said:

Devils laugh and hang up the phone. Jack Hughes most certainly is ready to be a top-6 center in the league right away. Why would a rebuilding new jersey team trade one of their top shelf prospects AND a high pick for two injury prone veterans on the back ends of their careers, and an unsigned Goldobin who has not proven he can be an NHL regular. In no way, shape, or form does he make up for losing McLeod.

 

I don't see how this helps the devils in any way. Sutter wouldn't even make their roster, as you stated they are very deep at center. Tanev could help them, but then you might as well just sign Gardiner without giving up 2 really good prospects.

Since you know what the devils will do, what is their Gm's number? You speak in absolutism like your OPINION is fact.... absurd nonsense

 

1. Jack hughes weights 165 lbs wet. If you think he's ready to play center in the NHL at 5'10 and 18 years old you're not very knowledge about hockey let alone man strength.

 

2. You clearly think Sutter is valueless, alot of teams would hold different opinions as we know from attempts to acquire him at past deadlines (excluding last year given he was hurt). Your opinion that he woudn't even make NJ is absurd.

 

3. Zacha is a first round pick who needs a chance to play in an offensive role (ie move him to the wing). He's not a shut down center, Sutter is better suited in that role. Zacha was sent to the minors for the AHL Playoffs this year, so not sure what you're talking about NJ being so great at center. You don't get sent down for AHL playoffs if you've cemented your position in the NHL, Zajac is 36 years old.

 

4. Tanev and Gardiner are very different players, this tells me you don't have much knowledge of the game. Tanev is a shut down Right DMAN on a good contract that expires this season. Gardiner is an offensive LEFT dman who is a tire fire in his own end. NJ has problems defensively. Gardiner will want term and alot more than Tanev gets paid. Gardiner does not address their problems and they have many puck movers (RD Subban, RD Severson, LD Vatanen, LD  Butcher). You don't add in another LD when their LD includes their captain Greene +Vatanen and Butcher, especially if you're going to have to pay that guy 6 mil minimum plus term. Thinking about the actual proposal actually matters before you give an opinion, else you may not look very smart.

 

After considering your response, it appears you need to learn about the game a great deal more.

Edited July 22, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[-AJ-]

Thought this was another jersey/logo thread lol. 

[18W-40C-6W]

5 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Thought this was another jersey/logo thread lol. 

Changed the title to Canucks and Devils to make sure there's no confusion lol

[Justdean10]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Since you know what the devils will do, what is their Gm's number? You speak in absolutism like your OPINION is fact.... absurd nonsense

 

1. Jack hughes weights 165 lbs wet. If you think he's ready to play center in the NHL at 5'10 and 18 years old you're not very knowledge about hockey let alone man strength.

 

2. You clearly think Sutter is valueless, alot of teams would hold different opinions as we know from attempts to acquire him at past deadlines (excluding last year given he was hurt). Your opinion that he woudn't even make NJ is absurd.

 

3. Zacha is a first round pick who needs a chance to play in an offensive role (ie move him to the wing). He's not a shut down center, Sutter is better suited in that role. Zacha was sent to the minors for the AHL Playoffs this year, so not sure what you're talking about NJ being so great at center. You don't get sent down for AHL playoffs if you've cemented your position in the NHL, Zajac is 36 years old.

 

4. Tanev and Gardiner are very different players, this tells me you don't have much knowledge of the game. Tanev is a shut down Right DMAN on a good contract that expires this season. Gardiner is an offensive LEFT dman who is a tire fire in his own end. NJ has problems defensively. Gardiner will want term and alot more than Tanev gets paid. Gardiner does not address their problems and they have many puck movers (RD Subban, RD Severson, LD Vatanen, LD  Butcher). You don't add in another LD when their LD includes their captain Larsson+Vatanen and Butcher, especially if you're going to have to pay that guy 6 mil minimum plus term. Thinking about the actual proposal actually matters before you give an opinion, else you may not look very smart.

 

After considering your response, it appears you need to learn about the game a great deal more.

I love how you're telling this guy how much he doesn't know hockey, when you seem to think Larsson is New Jersey captain.. when he doesn't even play for them. Andy Greene is their captain. 

[18W-40C-6W]

6 minutes ago, Justdean10 said:

I love how you're telling this guy how much he doesn't know hockey, when you seem to think Larsson is New Jersey captain.. when he doesn't even play for them. Andy Greene is their captain. 

I meant Greene, who is  a LD and their captain, clearly a typo. SMH wow just WOW

 

Maybe check my grammar while you're at it  too bro. I'm sure you can find a small error to deflect from the fact that my response just shut his ridiculous response down.

 

I think I may have misused a comma, had a run on sentence, and maybe missed a period. All of these clearly will defeat my POINT right? drrr

Edited July 22, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[mll]

Although Sami Vatanen is listed as a LD on CapFriendly he shoots right and has been playing RD for the Devils.  With their right side full (Subban, Vatanen, Severson), their beat writer Masisak wonders if they'll add a veteran LD or allow a prospect like Ty Smith to battle for that spot with Green and Butcher being their LD locks. 

 

If Vatanen can play the left side they might want to shift him over rather than reduce Severson or Vatanen's minutes after the addition of Subban.  Subban averaged about 24min in Nashville when healthy and Severson played 22min last season - it would leave about 13-14min for their 3rd pairing RD.  

 

Shero talked about how they want to add skills - NJD were tied bottom-5 with Vancouver in goals for.  They were looking to boost their top-6.  

Zajac has been their shutdown C.  Coleman has played mostly wing but can play shutdown C too - he had 36pts with zone starts of under 40% last season.  It would allow Zacha to move up to play with Hughes on the 2nd line.  Not sure they see Zacha as a top-6 player though - he's been mostly used as checking C and hasn't quite found his offence yet.  

 

Fwiw the NJ Devils have hired Tyler Dellows to run their analytics department.  He used to write for the Athletic and has been critical of Sutter's value in the past.  

 

Shero talks about how he wants to keep Hall but that the moves they are making are for the better of the team in the long run. There is no guarantee that they can re-sign Hall.  Hischier, Hughes, Ty Smith, Blackwood are key players for them and all are barely in their 20s - McLeod fits with that group.

 

[Baer.]

2 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Since you know what the devils will do, what is their Gm's number? You speak in absolutism like your OPINION is fact.... absurd nonsense

 

1. Jack hughes weights 165 lbs wet. If you think he's ready to play center in the NHL at 5'10 and 18 years old you're not very knowledge about hockey let alone man strength.

 

2. You clearly think Sutter is valueless, alot of teams would hold different opinions as we know from attempts to acquire him at past deadlines (excluding last year given he was hurt). Your opinion that he woudn't even make NJ is absurd.

 

3. Zacha is a first round pick who needs a chance to play in an offensive role (ie move him to the wing). He's not a shut down center, Sutter is better suited in that role. Zacha was sent to the minors for the AHL Playoffs this year, so not sure what you're talking about NJ being so great at center. You don't get sent down for AHL playoffs if you've cemented your position in the NHL, Zajac is 36 years old.

 

4. Tanev and Gardiner are very different players, this tells me you don't have much knowledge of the game. Tanev is a shut down Right DMAN on a good contract that expires this season. Gardiner is an offensive LEFT dman who is a tire fire in his own end. NJ has problems defensively. Gardiner will want term and alot more than Tanev gets paid. Gardiner does not address their problems and they have many puck movers (RD Subban, RD Severson, LD Vatanen, LD  Butcher). You don't add in another LD when their LD includes their captain Greene +Vatanen and Butcher, especially if you're going to have to pay that guy 6 mil minimum plus term. Thinking about the actual proposal actually matters before you give an opinion, else you may not look very smart.

 

After considering your response, it appears you need to learn about the game a great deal more.

1.  Jack Hughes weighs 170 dry. He could easily put on 5 pounds of muscle over the summer. Nico Hischier is 170 pounds, played at 18 and did fine. Hughes is far more talented than Hischier. First overall centers don't play anywhere other than the 1C spot. History will prove me right.

 

2. If Sutter is so valuable, he'd have been moved by now. He doesn't fit on Canucks roster, but he fits on new jersey's roster? 6 points, -12 in 24 games for a defensive center? Barely even 4th line numbers. You aren't looking at it from New Jersey's perspective. They have absolutely NO REASON to be spending nearly $5M on a player that is no upgrade from any other spare player you can pick up for league min.

 

3. New Jersey centers: Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier, Travis Zajac, Blake Coleman, Pavel Zacha, Brett Seney, Kevin Rooney, John Hayden, Michael McLeod, as well as Jesper Boqvist, Fabian Zetterlund, and Brandon Gignac in the minors.

 

Every player I just mentioned has a chance to make their roster next year. All are natural centers. You would take Sutter over all but 2 of those guys? Really? Again this is where paying almost $5M for a bottom 6 guy just doesn't make sense.

 

4. Which do you value more? Having Tanev, or having McLeod, a 2nd round pick, and Gardiner? You decide. It's not otherworldly to play a defenseman on his off side. But, to humour you, I hear Dion Phaneuf, Andrew MacDonald, and Dan Girardi are all available, all who put up similar numbers to Tanev last year.

 

After considering your response, it appears you think you know more than you actually do about hockey. Give your arrogance a check, I hope you aren't like that in real life.

[Baer.]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

I meant Greene, who is  a LD and their captain, clearly a typo. SMH wow just WOW

 

Maybe check my grammar while you're at it  too bro. I'm sure you can find a small error to deflect from the fact that my response just shut his ridiculous response down.

 

I think I may have misused a comma, had a run on sentence, and maybe missed a period. All of these clearly will defeat my POINT right? drrr

You have some pent up frustration, eh buddy?

[18W-40C-6W]

12 minutes ago, Baer. said:

1.  Jack Hughes weighs 170 dry. He could easily put on 5 pounds of muscle over the summer. Nico Hischier is 170 pounds, played at 18 and did fine. Hughes is far more talented than Hischier. First overall centers don't play anywhere other than the 1C spot. History will prove me right.

 

2. If Sutter is so valuable, he'd have been moved by now. He doesn't fit on Canucks roster, but he fits on new jersey's roster? 6 points, -12 in 24 games for a defensive center? Barely even 4th line numbers. You aren't looking at it from New Jersey's perspective. They have absolutely NO REASON to be spending nearly $5M on a player that is no upgrade from any other spare player you can pick up for league min.

 

3. New Jersey centers: Jack Hughes, Nico Hischier, Travis Zajac, Blake Coleman, Pavel Zacha, Brett Seney, Kevin Rooney, John Hayden, Michael McLeod, as well as Jesper Boqvist, Fabian Zetterlund, and Brandon Gignac in the minors.

 

Every player I just mentioned has a chance to make their roster next year. All are natural centers. You would take Sutter over all but 2 of those guys? Really? Again this is where paying almost $5M for a bottom 6 guy just doesn't make sense.

 

4. Which do you value more? Having Tanev, or having McLeod, a 2nd round pick, and Gardiner? You decide. It's not otherworldly to play a defenseman on his off side. But, to humour you, I hear Dion Phaneuf, Andrew MacDonald, and Dan Girardi are all available, all who put up similar numbers to Tanev last year.

 

After considering your response, it appears you think you know more than you actually do about hockey. Give your arrogance a check, I hope you aren't like that in real life.

1. your list of centers are fantastic, how many can line up against 6'2 210 lb men and take away heavy minutes? Do you want Hughes or Hirshier lining up against crosby and malkin, Tavares and Matthews and having to play defensive shut down minutes???????? Ya this isn't NHL 19 bro, its not about who has the 'highest rating' who wins, there's actually a method to constructing a team. I explained Zacha, and all the other names who???

 

2. Teams were calling for Sutter two deadline's ago. He was injured most of last year including at the deadline, this was explained to you. And who said SOOO  valuable? There's three pieces that add value to their depth for the playoffs. Teams need a mix of youth and veteran leadership - again not NHL 19

 

3. I love how you ignore my points and make up new ones that don't address my points, this is called deflection. I explained why Tanev vs Gardiner is a red herring argument lol. Go re read my post - you clearly don't comprehend the points I made. Tanev's value has never been about points! LOL omg

 

No arrogance, I just know what I am talking about, clearly some get their knowledge here from video games. Btw 10k+ posts less than 50% Have been liked - I think the community is telling me something about your history here. Over to the block list you go, I know where this is going with your type.

Edited July 22, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[Baer.]

7 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

1. your list of centers are fantastic, how many can line up against 6'2 210 lb men and take away heavy minutes? Do you want Hughes or Hirshier lining up against crosby and malkin, Tavares and Matthews and having to play defensive shut down minutes???????? Ya this isn't NHL 19 bro, its not about who has the 'highest rating' who wins, there's actually a method to constructing a team. I explained Zacha, and all the other names who???

 

2. Teams were calling for Sutter two deadline's ago. He was injured most of last year including at the deadline, this was explained to you. And who said SOOO  valuable? There's three pieces that add value to their depth for the playoffs. Teams need a mix of youth and veteran leadership - again not NHL 19

 

3. I love how you ignore my points and make up new ones that don't address my points, this is called deflection. I explained why Tanev vs Gardiner is a red herring argument lol. Go re read my post - you clearly don't comprehend the points I made

 

No arrogance, I just know what I am talking about, clearly some get their knowledge here from video games. Btw 9k+ posts less than 50% Have been liked - I think the community is telling me something about your history here.

My point on Gardiner was that signing a free agent is a lot cheaper than trading top picks for a mediocre player. You are the one deflecting by fixating on Gardiner. I even humoured you by listing off other names.

Just because you haven't heard their names, doesn't mean they aren't good players. Blake Coleman is a fantastic 3rd line player. Nice little jab at my rep ratio. What you didn't know is I've run multiple fantasy leagues on this site, which is why my post count is so high. I won't be replying to this thread anymore. Arguing isn't fun.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Baer.

[Drakrami]

So basically scraps that even our crappy team doesnt want for a 1st round prospect, a conditional 1st round pick and also lose around 10mil cap space in a season where all the teams are trying to reduce their cap? 

[JeremyCuddles]

You know this team also is trying to get into the playoffs after some good drafts, right?

[Hindustan Smyl]

To New Jersey:  Sven Baertschi

 

To Vancouver:  5th round pick

 

Devils need a LW’er to play with Hischier if I understand correctly, while the Canucks need to clear cap space.

[18W-40C-6W]

53 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

You know this team also is trying to get into the playoffs after some good drafts, right?

See the irony? To some I'm giving away scraps, to you its quality....I say they are players we can afford to give up given our depth now. Certainly in March if Try signs and Gaudette show's he's ready which he should

[Hindustan Smyl]

10 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

As I was looking at cap levels around the league, and was thinking about teams that could use some of our vets, NJ seemed to be a reasonable trading partner.

 

1. They are looking to now leverage a few good drafts in a row  (Hirschier, Hughes) and young adds like Will Butcher to make the playoffs.

 

2. They've added Subban for that reason

 

3. They want to keep Hall and need to show him they are serious about winning now as he's not getting any younger and he wants to compete for a cup, and has stated as such.

 

Therefore, players like Tanev and Sutter could have greater value to them as they look to strengthen their depth in order to compete in the playoffs. They've got 18 players signed with 18 mil in cap space, so there is certainly room,

 

The question is what's the value proposition for both sides for it to make sense. On RD, they have Subban, Severson, Carrick, at center they have Hirschier, Hughes, Zajac, and Zacha. Hughes likely isn't ready to start at C and irrespective of that, any of those skilled centers could work on the wing, and Zacha is better moving up as a winger than handling 3/4c.

 

To me, the depth this trade gives Jersey is very appealing, the issue is cost and what comes back. I would love Severson but no chance, he's young, a right D, good size and has been putting up 30-40 pts last 3 years and is only 24, no chance NJ gives him up.

 

We get cap space and likely want some youth back. The cap space is a big advantage so we can't discount that. My thoughts are

 

Sutter, Tanev, Goldobin (as a sweetener)

 

for

 

Michael Mcleod (good prospect but they have no room for him) and a conditional 2nd (that turns into a first if the Devils make the playoffs (or alternatively on a combined games played by Sutter and Tanev (non injuries) of 100 games). And maybe we take back Carrick to give NJ some added cap room.

 

The devils RD depth would be incredible with Subban/Severson/Tanev - and both Tanev or Sutter could arguably fetch a first at the deadline (if they wanted to move one) if they stay healthy. LD they have Green, Vatanen, Butcher. Arguably NJ would have one of the most mobile and deep D corps in the NHL. That D corps alone gets you into the playoffs.

 

At center now they would have Hirschier, Zajac, Sutter, Zacha and can play Hughes on the wing to ease him in. Any of those guys can move to the wing should Hughes show he can handle it but Sutter as a real shut down C again bolsters their playoff chances materially.

 

Goldy is a nice piece that offsets Mcleod, and is NHL ready depth who may fit in nicely with their young talent

 

For us, we get our first rounder back (assuming they meet the conditions), a nice young forward prospect in Mcleod, who is a great skater, has size, a real competitor from scouting reports and is a right handed C, plus we get lots of cap space from players we don't 'need' any more.

 

Devils make the playoffs, Hall is happy and re-signs as well.

New Jersey laughs, farts in the telephone receiver, and then hangs up.

 

Two injury prone players + a young bubble player doesn’t get you Michael McLeod.   Maybe on a good day, that package gets you Caitlyn Jenner.

[86Viking]

14 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

 

 

1. Jack hughes weights 165 lbs wet. If you think he's ready to play center in the NHL at 5'10 and 18 years old you're not very knowledge about hockey let alone man strength.

 

 

Isn't EP 20, 4'' taller and weighs less than Hughes!?!?

[BPA]

I thought it was going to be a trade something like this:

 

Quinn Hughes + LE (no salary retained)

for

Ty Smith + NJ 2020 1st (lottery protected).

 

Lol

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Isn't EP 20, 4'' taller and weighs less than Hughes!?!?

I thought EP was 6’3”?