coastal.view Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, oldnews said: This changes nothing. Marner 'could have' signed on day 1 before this deal. You haven't really 'figured out' anything that anyone else here didn't already understand. i agree but still this trade still came as a total surprise to me and i share the same initial puzzlement as many on here this is the 2nd surprising transaction this off season the first being that lucic actually was traded 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, 18W-40C-6W said: Cap compliant on the first day of the season would mean they can sign marner now and be over until opening night. Yes but how do you get cap complaint if you are over the cap. You would have to remove Marners contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) You can't place a player on Ltir if you are not cap compliant first. It's the steps of procedure that your not understanding Edited July 24, 2019 by Arrow 1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said: They don’t really get an “extra 10 mil” that’s useable on players. The two players they are taking cap hits for can’t play. If they were health they’d be getting no cap relief. I know what you’re saying but it’s not like they have an extra 10 mil player on their team AND marner. It’s still a stupid loophole but it’s allowed except what does happen is that the dollar value of those contracts get locked in marner knows that money will in fact be available once the season starts the laffs have demonstrated that they are committed to this process they cannot spend this money elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, Aspie said: Its something to do with Accuring Cap Space. What is the Accruable Cap Space Limit (ACSL)? When a team goes into LTIR, their effective salary cap, or upper limit, is changed. This adjusted upper limit is calculated as a function of the teams cap space and the player’s cap hit. This value is the “accruable cap space limit” (ACSL), and is the first value calculated. Second are the salary and performance bonus relief pools that are later explained below. The accruable cap space limit is the teams new upper limit excluding their LTIR relief pools. If the team operates below the ACSL, they begin to accrue cap space. A team can operate up to the ACSL without using their LTIR relief pools, once they operate above the ACSL, they begin to use their LTIR relief pools. In the majority of cases, a team using LTIR will be using their relief pools. Only in uncommon circumstances does a team operate below their ACSL. The ACSL is only calculated when a team first enters LTIR, if a player is placed on LTIR while another player is already on LTIR, the ACSL is not recalculated. In the event that a team stops using LTIR, their ACSL resets to the default upper limit of the active season, upon reentering LTIR, the ACSL is again recalculated. Two methods can be used to calculate the ACSL: The Basic Equation The basic equation can be used throughout the NHL regular season, and during the off-season: ACSL = Salary cap upper limit - team cap space Example: The 2017-18 upper limit is $75M, a team with a projected cap hit of $74.9M places a player with an AAV of $5M on LTIR: Upper limit = $75M Team cap space = $0.1M ACSL = $75M - $0.1M = $74.9M If the team decides that they do not need to recall a player, and instead reassign a player to the AHL, they would begin to accrue cap space because they are operating below the ACSL. https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq Yes exactly very good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: lulz Robidas Island was getting a little too quiet apparently. Is that your cap management strategy, Dubas? It’s now called Clarkson Canal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 You guys make my brain hurt I'm out for a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PhillipBlunt Posted July 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: You guys make my brain hurt I'm out for a bit Take two aspirin. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: You guys make my brain hurt I'm out for a bit you are a weird dude 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Topcheeze86 Posted July 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2019 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspie Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: Yes exactly very good post That being said, it’s still not enough if Marner want the same as Matthews. They’ll still at least $1M over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Still hasn’t been able to explain how this helps the Leafs find 11 mil to sign Marner though. Not sure this is going to help but I will take a stab at it. Horton and Clarkson have a combined salary against the cap of $10.55M. If the Leafs are exactly at the cap on Day1 they will then be able to place both these players on LTIR and get the full LTIR benefit ($10.55M) to exceed the salary cap by that amount for the remainder of the season as long as Clarkson and Horton remain on LTIR. They have 22 players on their roster today and adding Marner at $10.55M on the 1st day of the season would complete their roster. I believe the key point here is that the Leafs needed to be at the cap on opening day but with flexibility so they could take full advantage of Horton's salary taking them over the cap limit. Adding a roster player making $5.25M (Clarkson's salary) would not provide that maximum flexibility and you would only be able to pay Marner the equivalent of Horton's salary (#5.3M). Having said all of the above, I have no idea why they would do this and not be able to have Marner attend training camp and play exhibition games. Makes no sense to me. The below is a relative section from the CBA that I hope may be of some help. Prior to Opening Day Illustrations: Illustration #1: The Upper Limit in a League Year is $70.0 million. On the last day of Training Camp, a Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $71.5 million (excluding Earnable Performance Bonuses up to the full amount of the Performance Bonus Cushion). A Player who has an SPC with an Averaged Amount of $2.0 million becomes unfit to play on the last day of Training Camp, and on the same day, the Club Loans a Player who has an SPC with an Averaged Amount of $1.5 million to the minors, decreasing its Averaged Club Salary to $70.0 million. On Opening Day, the Club exercises the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception on the unfit-to-play Player. The Club may then replace the unfit-to-play Player with any Player or Players who have SPCs with an (aggregate) Averaged Amount of $2.0 million. If these replacements are made on Opening Day and are maintained through the conclusion of the season, the Club's Averaged Club Salary is $72.0 million, as the Club is permitted to exceed the Upper Limit by $2.0 million because of the Bona-Fide LongTerm Injury/Illness Exception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Salacious Crumb Posted July 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 24, 2019 16 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: You guys make my brain hurt I'm out for a bit #fakethreat 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Take two aspirin. And wash them down with scotch 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: Not sure this is going to help but I will take a stab at it. Horton and Clarkson have a combined salary against the cap of $10.55M. If the Leafs are exactly at the cap on Day1 they will then be able to place both these players on LTIR and get the full LTIR benefit ($10.55M) to exceed the salary cap by that amount for the remainder of the season as long as Clarkson and Horton remain on LTIR. They have 22 players on their roster today and adding Marner at $10.55M on the 1st day of the season would complete their roster. I believe the key point here is that the Leafs needed to be at the cap on opening day but with flexibility so they could take full advantage of Horton's salary taking them over the cap limit. Adding a roster player making $5.25M (Clarkson's salary) would not provide that maximum flexibility and you would only be able to pay Marner the equivalent of Horton's salary (#5.3M). Having said all of the above, I have no idea why they would do this and not be able to have Marner attend training camp and play exhibition games. Makes no sense to me. The below is a relative section from the CBA that I hope may be of some help. Prior to Opening Day Illustrations: Illustration #1: The Upper Limit in a League Year is $70.0 million. On the last day of Training Camp, a Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $71.5 million (excluding Earnable Performance Bonuses up to the full amount of the Performance Bonus Cushion). A Player who has an SPC with an Averaged Amount of $2.0 million becomes unfit to play on the last day of Training Camp, and on the same day, the Club Loans a Player who has an SPC with an Averaged Amount of $1.5 million to the minors, decreasing its Averaged Club Salary to $70.0 million. On Opening Day, the Club exercises the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception on the unfit-to-play Player. The Club may then replace the unfit-to-play Player with any Player or Players who have SPCs with an (aggregate) Averaged Amount of $2.0 million. If these replacements are made on Opening Day and are maintained through the conclusion of the season, the Club's Averaged Club Salary is $72.0 million, as the Club is permitted to exceed the Upper Limit by $2.0 million because of the Bona-Fide LongTerm I've posted this before a player without a contract can attend training cap it is completely up to the player and club Edited July 24, 2019 by Arrow 1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said: I think they can be over the cap till the first day of the season no? So he can still come to camp and the leafs not be subverting anything. But I am assuming and could stand corrected on that. That is correct. But Clarkson and Horton cannot be placed on LTIR until the first day of the season so they could not sign Marner before then and be over when the season starts. Thats why they will probably wait to file the contract until those two are able to be put on ltir. I was under the impression that players had to be under contract to attend training camp but could be wrong. Edited July 24, 2019 by Silver Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said: I've posted this before a player without a contract can attend training cap it is completely up to the player and club Why are there PTO contracts then? And if the player gets injured in camp they have absolutely no recourse at all. Huge risk for Marner. Edited July 24, 2019 by Silver Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) Looks like Marner contact will be about $10.5M. And Toronto will have 22 players on the roster unless they make some additional trades. This already assuming they send down a $735k contract (ie. Ben Harpur). Edited July 24, 2019 by BPA Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said: Why are there PTO contracts then? And if the player gets injured in camp they have absolutely no recourse at all. Huge risk for Marner. That's exactly the contract that Marner could sign a PTO so he would be covered by insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow 1983 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, BPA said: Looks like Marner contact will be about $10.5M. And Toronto will have 22 players on the roster unless they make some additional trades. This already assuming they send down a $735k contract (ie. Ben Harpur). Truth be told Marner would have to sit out preseason or the NHL would have cause to believe this is cap circumventing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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