Do You Have Confidence In The Canucks Front Office..?

[Chris12345]

This comes up every three weeks...I'll chip in again.

 

Communication F

Most fans on here probably disagree but communication is extremely important in particular to season ticket holders and corporate sponsors.

 

Drafting/Scouting B+

Very strong in late rounds and finding gems. Weaker in the top 5 area.

 

Signing C

A few good ones, some really bad ones.

 

Trades C

I think he's come out with more loses than wins.

 

Strategy/Asset Management D

See Dipietro start.

 

Yes this is my opinion. No it's not supported by facts. Yes I like beer and scotch.

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Chris12345

[Chris12345]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

A lot of posters are conflating GM with "Front Office" 

On the website, Front Office comprises 15 individuals:- 

3 Aquilinis (Governor and 2 Alternate Governors)

Benning (GM), Weisbrod (Assistant GM) and Smyl (Assistant to GM)

Carroll (COO), 1 EVP and 6 VPs

Doyle (Pres of an Aquilini sub)

 

For the body of work for which "The Front Office" is responsible, IMO, yes. I have confidence in them.

6 VPs! 

 

It's not my money so it doesn't matter but that's ridiculous. 

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, Provost said:

Some of the questions were kind of hard to answer accurately.

 

”Drafting and Developing”

 

... drafting 4/5... developing 2/5... so do you answer 3 and does that really reflect your feelings.

 

Drafting has been reasonably solid, aside from Virtanen and Juolevi, pretty much every player would have been drafted higher if you looked back and did it again at draft year +1.

 

When JB is left heaping praise on Brisebois after being asked about players that have developed on the farm... that is pretty damning.  We need some dark horse guys to come out of later rounds and develop in the minors to the point they can be regular contributors for the big team.  It isn’t happening, and our successes are college and European guys who largely bypass the farm team.

 

I have to say that aside from drafting, which was a mess... I felt more confident in the Gillis/Gilman regime.  They were able to articulate a clear vision to the fans and execute it reasonably well.

 

You can blame ownership, but it is also the GMs job to mange the owner.

This may be the biggest issue with this front office.....communications

 

As for a clear vision, It has been a moving target.  Expectations got in the way early coupled with a poorly articulated plan which I think was partly secrecy and that Linden didn't turn out to be as good of a front man as expected.  Love the guy but he couldn't stand up to the grilling by an annoyed and expectant media.  I thought a rebuild right away was coming but the plan in hindsight was to support the Sedins.  Not that that wasn't said, I wasn't listening and many others weren't either.

 

To my mind, the plan changed in 2017 because management realized that the Sedin's weren't going on a cup run and Benning couldn't find the right people with the assets he had to move and the team was no longer attracting good free agents.

 

There is certainly a plan but each year, it gets adjusted based on how the previous year went.  Be honest, who expected EP to do as well as he did last year before the season started.  Maybe he would become a regular by the end of the season.  He was awfully slight.  Could he play centre?  He played wing in Sweden.  Would it be better for him to spend time in Utica?  Surprise!  He was effing fantastic and nobody expected Hughes to look as good as he did in only 5 games played either.  We could very well have the future core together already.  Benning is finding himself saddled with contracts that he didn't want to have on the books at this stage.  But as he says, this is a good problem to have.  So as people are complaining about the cap situation.  This was overblown by a media who can't read Cap Friendly properly and going whoa, look at all the free agent signings and now we can't sign Boeser.....Fact is, Benning can sign Boeser.  And this influx of players like Miller, Myers, Benn and Ferland blind sided our reactionary media.  Nobody expected this but it was the plan all along.  It just came sooner than expected.  

 

 

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

He is getting better, but that is because the team is also more desirable to play for again. He definitely hasn't done a great job prior to this off season and the Horvat signing. Still don't like giving up a 1st round pick for Miller. I still wish he would stick with scouting/development and let someone handle contracts/trades. 

 

It's the ownership I don't have confidence in. I feel they are too invested in the team. Typically these big boys let their employees handle things and stay out of it. Numerous reports show they have been very, if not too, involved in the daily operations. 

 

Imho I see if Aqua gave the green light for a rebuild from the get go back in 2012-13 this team wouldn't have gone through these past few years of swings and turmoil. A clear direction was needed. Aqua was seesawing between rebuild and generating as much  money as possible. That's where the "rebuild on the fly" originated from. 

It is fair that Aquaman should be making the call on such a big decision.  Obviously, he was advised by Gillis that the time was 2013 to rebuild given that team depth had fallen so much in 2012 that they were bounced in the first round despite winning a 2nd straight Presidents Trophy.  

 

It burns that it took until 2017 for FA to see it.

 

I do think though that at this point, things are going in the right direction.  It just took longer than it should or could have taken.

 

In a way, Benning is like a middle manager.  He must do the bidding of the top people (ownership) and do it in his own way but the goals are not his own.

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

This comes up every three weeks...I'll chip in again.

 

Communication F

Most fans on here probably disagree but communication is extremely important in particular to season ticket holders and corporate sponsors.

 

Drafting/Scouting B+

Very strong in late rounds and finding gems. Weaker in the top 5 area.

 

Signing C

A few good ones, some really bad ones.

 

Trades C

I think he's come out with more loses than wins.

 

Strategy/Asset Management D

See Dipietro start.

 

Yes this is my opinion. No it's not supported by facts. Yes I like beer and scotch.

 

Don't agree with all your points but certainly can't disagree at all about liking beer and scotch

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, lmm said:

3 years of Willie and Doug and now 3rd year of Greenie and Baumer, and players like Guber and Hutton stagnate.

 I think at some point in his career Greenie will be a good coach, probably the team after the next one he coaches, but right now he is earning his stripes at the Canucks expence. I think with better coaching Guber and Hutten would have grown as NHL D-men. I do not share the faith that Myers will be everything Guber was supposed to be. i think Benn will be  fine but probably post a 5 year low in points.

Guddy was 26 when he was moved and had played over 400 games when the Canucks moved him.  How much development do you expect from there?

 

Hutton, similar 26 now and 276 NHL games.  He is what he is. 

 

Is anybody sad to see these turnover machines go?  The D is so much better going into next season.

 

Blaming coaching in this case is just like players not accepting responsibility for their own poor play......it must be somebody else's fault.  C'mon.  

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Vanuckles said:

Very confident. JB has been re-building this team from very barren cupboards and very tough contracts to move. He's done a tremendous job setting the culture, finding a new core that we can win with, and giving the organization a long term plan to sustain success.

This ^^^,  culture, one of the most important aspects of a team and one of the least understood.  Edmonton says hello!

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I really like all the signings and the decision to abandon the rebuild, but this is not the same as having faith in the management group. 

 

Spending house money to insulate the botched rebuild’s gap in prospect-talent isn’t exactly Manager of the Year material. 

 

However, I am glad that at least the team will be a rugged, middling team, instead of a pussified bunch of gents.

 

Who's abandoned the rebuild?  I mean, you can look at it that way but in no way do I see adding assets abandoning the rebuild.  There is more than 1 way to legitimately add assets to rebuild a team.

 

The rebuild isn't over, they're getting better and better year over year

[spur1]

Can’t help but think this management group are in for a good Christmas bonus. 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

Who's abandoned the rebuild?  I mean, you can look at it that way but in no way do I see adding assets abandoning the rebuild.  There is more than 1 way to legitimately add assets to rebuild a team.

 

The rebuild isn't over, they're getting better and better year over year

The Canucks are rebuilding at the same pace as any contender.

I know what point you’re making and understand it completely, but that doesn’t mean I agree with why it’s happening, just that it’s better entertainment than I might be in for, otherwise.

[lmm]

5 hours ago, the grinder said:

umm how did guddy do in pitt ?   and hutton isn't signed  but pouliot signed in stl    that should tell you something   

That should tell me something.

But TBH I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Crabcakes]

8 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

The Canucks are rebuilding at the same pace as any contender.

I know what point you’re making and understand it completely, but that doesn’t mean I agree with why it’s happening, just that it’s better entertainment than I might be in for, otherwise.

I think they're going faster than a 100% draft rebuild like the Jets did but they're approach is different.  Which is better is the question.  One way may build a better team and the other may be more sustainable.  Having a  hard cap makes a difference.  Which one wins more cups?  We can look across the league and see that many teams rise and fall and lots of them don't go beyond a few playoff rounds.  It's hard to say why.  I think a lot of this has to do with the approach of ownership.  Like, Jeeze Jim, it's looking like 5 years with no playoffs and we want to be in the playoffs every year.....and we need to renew your contract......can we speed things up a bit?   I couldn't say if this was how the discussion has gone in the board room but you have to wonder.

[spook007]

Just happy that we go into a new season with a lot more confidence in seeing some good hard-nosed hockey being played.

If it turns out that they actually can compete as well, I'll be one satisfied customer... Its been a few years, since I have been this excited for a new season to start.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

39 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

The Canucks are rebuilding at the same pace as any contender.

I know what point you’re making and understand it completely, but that doesn’t mean I agree with why it’s happening, just that it’s better entertainment than I might be in for, otherwise.

You will fail more times than you win. In selecting assets, drafting, making trades.

 

There are only so many players good enough to make a difference!

 

It is fair that we made some odd pro scouting backed acquisitions in particular. And some, Eriksson, just did not work out. Gudbrandson? But Benning was only designing the team to soften the fall.  Some debate, we should not have tried to do so?    

 

We signed Megna, Chaput, Bartkowski, etc...

 

We did embrace the rebuild.  And this was before we told the public. But you still fail & especially then more times than you win.  Many of our poor earlier decisions, were money puck decisions. What did we pay for Pouliot? Now we have some cap room, some assets, the decisions also need to start reflecting that.

 

But value compounds when you draft a winner like Horvat. Exponentially when you draft a Pettersson.

 

If Hughes is as advertised? We could be on our way.  Even if not, we're only a step behind Toronto and Winnipeg.  

[the grinder]

6 hours ago, lmm said:

3 years of Willie and Doug and now 3rd year of Greenie and Baumer, and players like Guber and Hutton stagnate.

 I think at some point in his career Greenie will be a good coach, probably the team after the next one he coaches, but right now he is earning his stripes at the Canucks expence. I think with better coaching Guber and Hutten would have grown as NHL D-men. I do not share the faith that Myers will be everything Guber was supposed to be. i think Benn will be  fine but probably post a 5 year low in points.

 

1 hour ago, lmm said:

 

1 hour ago, lmm said:

 

 

6 hours ago, the grinder said:

umm how did guddy do in pitt ?   and hutton isn't signed  but pouliot signed in stl    that should tell you something   

 

1 hour ago, lmm said:

That should tell me something.

But TBH I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

point is guddy sucked and he his gone   hutton not signed   hint   hint    they suck  ,   point made ?     

[lmm]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Guddy was 26 when he was moved and had played over 400 games when the Canucks moved him.  How much development do you expect from there?

 

Hutton, similar 26 now and 276 NHL games.  He is what he is. 

 

Is anybody sad to see these turnover machines go?  The D is so much better going into next season.

 

Blaming coaching in this case is just like players not accepting responsibility for their own poor play......it must be somebody else's fault.  C'mon.  

what is it about THIS CASE that makes questioning the coaching staff off limits?

StLouis went from worst to Stanley with a coaching change, Pittsburg has won 2 cup in seasons that they changed coach mid-season

What is so unique in our situation that Willie and Doug deserved 3 years and Green and Baumer deserve 3 more years ?

Tyler Myers appears to have played best under Lindy Ruff and again under Maurice, but flagged under Rolston and Nolan.

Is Baumer a better coach than Rolston or Nolan, or  asstantsTrottier, Flynn, Coolen, Numanen or Sacco? Only Joe Sacco has continued coaching, as an assitatant in the NHL since their days in Buffalo

[lmm]

12 minutes ago, the grinder said:

 

 

 

 

point is guddy sucked and he his gone   hutton not signed   hint   hint    they suck  ,   point made ?     

but Pouliot didn't suck, so he got signed by the Stanley cup champ?

I'm not sure how this helps your point made.

 

OH REMEMBER when Guddy got here and was supposed to be our next captain?

What happened to that? 

Edited August 1, 2019 by lmm

[Tre Mac]

15 hours ago, IRR said:

To me, people like this will never be happy / confident in the job they’re (he’s) doing. Why, because it’s not about the job they’re doing, it’s because they don’t like the person that’s doing the job! Even if they did a great job, they’d still have issues with it / them. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, but if people can’t give Jim credit now for the job he’s done this off season / the good job he’s done overall (eg. Drafting), then I don’t know when people will. Has he made mistakes, yes! So has every GM, including the best ones. It’s about the big picture and I’d say it’s looking the best it has in a very long time, maybe ever!!! 

It has nothing to do with the person, he's missed the playoffs for what? 5 years and this team is somehow in cap trouble, pretty inexcusable.  The best this team has ever looked?  Whatever man thought we're going to have a legit discussion about management.  Never said he was bad at drafting, that to this point has been his only saving grace but for the last time:  There is more to being a successful GM than drafting - and to add to that each GM doesn't make every pick on their own, even the first rounders. 

 

Funny you should mention  'its about the big picture' about a GM that spends $12 million on the fourth line and now has to scrounge to get Boeser signed.  Spent a first rounder to a team in cap trouble and now is in cap trouble himself.  He still to this day doesn't strike me as someone that understands how to manage a cap in today's NHL and though not a big issue, his interviews and how he conducts himself in front of the mic, is , well, you know, um, you know, um, pretty subpar.

 

I'll give Benning a pass when it comes to dealing with the slumlord owners and maybe there was interference in some moves he wanted to make earlier but do I have faith in him and ownership?  Hell no and if I was a wagering man I put a few down on him being canned by January.  

 

 

[Crabcakes]

6 hours ago, lmm said:

what is it about THIS CASE that makes questioning the coaching staff off limits?

StLouis went from worst to Stanley with a coaching change, Pittsburg has won 2 cup in seasons that they changed coach mid-season

What is so unique in our situation that Willie and Doug deserved 3 years and Green and Baumer deserve 3 more years ?

Tyler Myers appears to have played best under Lindy Ruff and again under Maurice, but flagged under Rolston and Nolan.

Is Baumer a better coach than Rolston or Nolan, or  asstantsTrottier, Flynn, Coolen, Numanen or Sacco? Only Joe Sacco has continued coaching, as an assitatant in the NHL since their days in Buffalo

Gudbranson came with plenty of expectations following a strong performance in the 2016 playoffs.  In hindsight, this was looking at a small sample size because watching him over his 139 games as a Canuck we see him often out of position and not very mobile.  As the pace of play increased, Guddy became unable to make up for his positional play.  And we don't see a whole lot of difference in Pittsburgh who are playing a different system.

 

Hutton (and Pouliot) were targets of the opposition because if they were dumping the puck in, it would go into their corner every time, forcing them to turn because they weren't going to move the puck before forwards arrived.  We haven't seen how they perform with other teams since leaving the Canucks so time will tell.  Is it the system or the coaching or just that there was promise in Hutton's rookie year that earned him too much money and Benning wasn't going to overpay even more in a renewal.  Pouliot was just too inconsistent in his play otherwise (that's not coaching)

 

 

[combover]

Zero. 

 

The “barely make the playoff” has been the goal since spender Jim got here bad contracts bad signings and really only 1st round draft picks (easy to do when you pick top ten most years) making the jump to the nhl hardly a model for long term rebuilt teams success. 

Years of his defenders saying size doesn’t matter now he says size does matter and shocking so do the same folks who told us countless time size isn’t important in the new nhl. 

Jim is a trend chaser and barely squeezing a wildcard spot out of a cap strapped team that doesn’t even have one of its YOUNG stars signed YET. 

His fingers crossed shyte at the wall plan  and accidental rebuild (due to his failed attempts to buy a post season spot year after year) will soon be his end. 

An Often injured d core over paid ufas And a mountain of franchise worst records under his tenure. 

Hope  leagues trend doesn’t change to much as Jimmy will be once again the follower not the leader.