[Report] Marner's Agent in Contact with Zurich Lions of the Swiss League

[theo5789]

13 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

its actually the leafs management being babies.  right now Marners agents just sees it like this...

 21 year old player with 73 points in 68 games 11.6 million...

 

21 yer old player with 94 points in 82 games wants 11.6 million, theres nothing more to that.  Dubas is an idiot to think oh he's a Toronto kid and we want him to take a pay cut. I am personally glad he is doing this, they are going to be screwed, and I love every moment of it.  Matthews contract is painfully obvious he wants to hit UFA asap, instead of signing a contract equivalent to what Eichel or Mcdavid signed for.  He doesn't want to be in Toronto.

 

Marner is the same, he wants to hit ufa so he can get more offers for more money of course from other teams.   Dubas is so stupid.  good luck stupid leafs.

Marner is the same now because of how Toronto is basically treating him in this situation. Marner likely would've wanted to be a career Leaf, but he's not getting screwed around either.

[Coconuts]

Toronto will likely need to drop their ask on the term if they want him at 11m. Contracts will only continue to increase and it doesn't seem like he's interested in missing out.

 

I don't think the money is the hold up so much as the term. 

[rekker]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Toronto will likely need to drop their ask on the term if they want him at 11m. Contracts will only continue to increase and it doesn't seem like he's interested in missing out.

 

I don't think the money is the hold up so much as the term. 

This, Marner likely wants the AM five year - 11.5 contract. Maybe settles for 11. Was a stupid contract to give AM really. 

[Tystick]

If Marner starts his season in Switzerland after he was offered $11 mil x 8 WITH his missing ELC signing bonus that he was whining about.

TRADE HIM.

 

You call the the agent and say we are terminating contract talks with your client.

Take ALL the time in the world to find a trade the benefits the Leafs the most.

Then when Marner comes back with his braces slurping: "Okay I'll take the 11 million x 8 year deal".

Say: "No, it's now 8 mil x 8, take it or leave it.

*slurp* "Okay I'm going back to Switzerland yah".

"Okay, bye have a great time"

 

Proceed to trade him for multiple picks and prospects.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Tystick said:

If Marner starts his season in Switzerland after he was offered $11 mil x 8 WITH his missing ELC signing bonus that he was whining about.

TRADE HIM.

 

You call the the agent and say we are terminating contract talks with your client.

Take ALL the time in the world to find a trade the benefits the Leafs the most.

Then when Marner comes back with his braces slurping: "Okay I'll take the 11 million x 8 year deal".

Say: "No, it's now 8 mil x 8, take it or leave it.

*slurp* "Okay I'm going back to Switzerland yah".

"Okay, bye have a great time"

 

Proceed to trade him for multiple picks and prospects.

If they had the balls to do this, they would've/should've done it with Nylander, instead they caved. If not with Nylander, then Matthews. But wait, they caved again. They will cave, it's just a matter of time. Marner is the player they should've been focused on and now he's the problem because of the precedent they sent?

 

Can you imagine if you saw all your colleagues get overpaid and then you get asked to take a discount for the team? I know 11x8 doesn't sound like much of a discount, but term is important here and comparatively to what they've given out, there's no reason for Marner to expect less.

[Ralph.]

#TeamMarner

[cdubuya]

He wants a "bridge" deal that will effectively let him make 9-11 million over the next 4 years and go straight to unrestricted free agency. F that. He is riding on the coattails of playing with elite players. In no way does he deserve more than JT or AM. If he wants 11 dollars it had better be long term so they get some value out of it. Otherwise they are better trading him to a team that wants to pay him. The reason he hasn't signed an offer sheet bridge deal with anyone else is cause no team in their right mind would sacrifice 4 firsts for 4 years of team control to a money hungry pipsqueak.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

16 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

If they had the balls to do this, they would've/should've done it with Nylander, instead they caved. If not with Nylander, then Matthews. But wait, they caved again. They will cave, it's just a matter of time. Marner is the player they should've been focused on and now he's the problem because of the precedent they sent?

Teams really should do this.  How stupid would it be for the player to miss out on one seasons pays because they were holding out for an extra 500k-1mill per year.  One seasons pay for Marner is worth more than the difference in the discount.  

 

Cost of Marner missing one season = 11 mill

Cost of Marner taking a $1 Million/year discount on a 8 year deal = 8 mill

 

I'd have a ton of respect for dubas (or any GM for that matter) to put their foot down and say here's a reasonable offer, here's the dead line.  If you are not signed by then talks are off till next season and stick to it.  

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Tystick said:

If Marner starts his season in Switzerland after he was offered $11 mil x 8 WITH his missing ELC signing bonus that he was whining about.

TRADE HIM.

 

You call the the agent and say we are terminating contract talks with your client.

Take ALL the time in the world to find a trade the benefits the Leafs the most.

Then when Marner comes back with his braces slurping: "Okay I'll take the 11 million x 8 year deal".

Say: "No, it's now 8 mil x 8, take it or leave it.

*slurp* "Okay I'm going back to Switzerland yah".

"Okay, bye have a great time"

 

Proceed to trade him for multiple picks and prospects.

Marner would be all over that, knowing that he'd finally get past the first round in the playoffs.

[theo5789]

11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Teams really should do this.  How stupid would it be for the player to miss out on one seasons pays because they were holding out for an extra 500k-1mill per year.  One seasons pay for Marner is worth more than the difference in the discount.  

 

Cost of Marner missing one season = 11 mill

Cost of Marner taking a $1 Million/year discount on a 8 year deal = 8 mill

 

I'd have a ton of respect for dubas (or any GM for that matter) to put their foot down and say here's a reasonable offer, here's the dead line.  If you are not signed by then talks are off till next season and stick to it.  

I don't disagree, he should've done it with Nylander. He should've been the lowest priority and the team was doing well without him and it would've set the precedent. Dubas has no respect now and if he finally does this with Marner who the "local kid", well I think it really only looks worse for him.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

I don't disagree, he should've done it with Nylander. He should've been the lowest priority and the team was doing well without him and it would've set the precedent. Dubas has no respect now and if he finally does this with Marner who the "local kid", well I think it really only looks worse for him.

He probably should have with Nylander but you can understand why he didn't and why 99% of GM end up caving in the end (especially in Canada).  A GM's shelf life is short lived in Canada and the pressure to win is extremely high.  Just think of the reaction if JB did that with Brock and Canucks end up bottom feeding for another year.  It would take a ton of balls, but it your right it would really set the precedent that this team ONLY wants players who want to be here, players who part of this team's culture, more than players who are focussed on themselves, trying to squeeze every dollar they can.

 

Back on Nylander, i think it looks even worse when the player holds out and still ends up getting overpaid.  After the season starts the teams offer should be reducing.  If you're going to cave and over pay, do that in the summer and bypass the two month long charade.  Rookie mistake, by a rookie GM.  JB's had a few of those too, we will see if Dubas has learned or if he's getting used to bending over.

 

 

 

[theo5789]

14 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

He probably should have with Nylander but you can understand why he didn't and why 99% of GM end up caving in the end (especially in Canada).  A GM's shelf life is short lived in Canada and the pressure to win is extremely high.  Just think of the reaction if JB did that with Brock and Canucks end up bottom feeding for another year.  It would take a ton of balls, but it your right it would really set the precedent that this team ONLY wants players who want to be here, players who part of this team's culture, more than players who are focussed on themselves, trying to squeeze every dollar they can.

 

Back on Nylander, i think it looks even worse when the player holds out and still ends up getting overpaid.  After the season starts the teams offer should be reducing.  If you're going to cave and over pay, do that in the summer and bypass the two month long charade.  Rookie mistake, by a rookie GM.  JB's had a few of those too, we will see if Dubas has learned or if he's getting used to bending over.

 

 

 

JB has been very good with his RFA signings. He's made a few mistakes through UFA, but the only one that has had any real lingering effect is Eriksson. The difference here is that Nylander wasn't even a top winger for them and the team was flying even without him. The only pressure to get him signed was because Dubas thought adding Nylander would put them over the top and make the Cup favourites and that backfired big time. For BB, he is our top winger. We don't really have anyone to replace what Brock does aside from the extra middling guys that can step up temporarily (unless Goldobin finds another level).

 

It was a rookie GM trying to be cocky and I'm glad their team is suffering for it, but it's affecting the entire league which is unfortunate.

[Tystick]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

If they had the balls to do this, they would've/should've done it with Nylander, instead they caved. If not with Nylander, then Matthews. But wait, they caved again. They will cave, it's just a matter of time. Marner is the player they should've been focused on and now he's the problem because of the precedent they sent?

 

Can you imagine if you saw all your colleagues get overpaid and then you get asked to take a discount for the team? I know 11x8 doesn't sound like much of a discount, but term is important here and comparatively to what they've given out, there's no reason for Marner to expect less.

He would be the highest paid winger in the league, and yet, he turned it down.

Tbh, I don't really care if the Leafs cave, I'm just salty because it's become the new strategy for the RFA's.

Oh well.

[Tystick]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Marner would be all over that, knowing that he'd finally get past the first round in the playoffs.

Haha true, well I guess he's laughing no matter what happens.

[theo5789]

5 minutes ago, Tystick said:

He would be the highest paid winger in the league, and yet, he turned it down.

Tbh, I don't really care if the Leafs cave, I'm just salty because it's become the new strategy for the RFA's.

Oh well.

It's not just the money though. It's the freedom at the end of the contract. Matthews was given that freedom and 5 years down the road, players may likely be getting paid even more than that 11+ million. I don't like it either, but this isn't all on Marner. The system is broken, Toronto is a major reason for this.

Edited September 12, 2019 by theo5789

[rekker]

15 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

JB has been very good with his RFA signings. He's made a few mistakes through UFA, but the only one that has had any real lingering effect is Eriksson. The difference here is that Nylander wasn't even a top winger for them and the team was flying even without him. The only pressure to get him signed was because Dubas thought adding Nylander would put them over the top and make the Cup favourites and that backfired big time. For BB, he is our top winger. We don't really have anyone to replace what Brock does aside from the extra middling guys that can step up temporarily (unless Goldobin finds another level).

 

It was a rookie GM trying to be cocky and I'm glad their team is suffering for it, but it's affecting the entire league which is unfortunate.

Yip. Looks good on Dubas who in my opinion is building a team that's pillow soft. 

[Tystick]

Just now, theo5789 said:

It's not just the money though. It's the freedom at the end of the contract. Matthews was given that freedom and 5 years down the road, players may likely be getting paid even more than that 11+ million. I don't like it either, but this isn't all on Marner. The system is broken, Toronto was a major reason for this.

Oh for sure, Toronto set the precedent with Nylander.

It just bugs me because these RFA's are young kids trying to pull in more money then they would get at free agency.

I guess it's their call to be loyal or not, so whatever, I'm just salty.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

26 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

JB has been very good with his RFA signings. He's made a few mistakes through UFA, but the only one that has had any real lingering effect is Eriksson. The difference here is that Nylander wasn't even a top winger for them and the team was flying even without him. The only pressure to get him signed was because Dubas thought adding Nylander would put them over the top and make the Cup favourites and that backfired big time. For BB, he is our top winger. We don't really have anyone to replace what Brock does aside from the extra middling guys that can step up temporarily (unless Goldobin finds another level).

JB hasn't really been in the situation of having to sign am elite young player yet, Brock is really the first one and we will see how that goes.  You could argue that about Bo but i'd say he wasn't in the same company as the other peer signings from the 2016-2017 seasons.

 

While the team (TO) was doing well, they were also in a great window.  Matthews and Marner were still on ELC, Marleau was still playing good and it was the perfect time to take advantage that last year of cap freedom.  In the end Nylander did get overpaid but really not by much, I'd say his value is closer to 6.25 million, so really he's only getting a 700k overpayment which isn't that bad on a normal roster.  It becomes more noticeable when you are trying to pay out big contracts to 3 other guys, I think he gets moved next summer but I also thinks he's quite underrated on these board in the two full seasons Nylander played he's out produced Marner in even strength points and did that while receiving 132 less ozone starts.  I'm not saying he's better than marner, who plays a better all around game just that I don't think Nylander is the albatross people love to make him out to be.

 

BB is one of our top line wingers but realistically this teams window hasn't even opened up yet.  We might see it crack open a peak this year if all goes well.  The pressure solely relies on the the individual GM's leash and in Canada all Gm's leashes are quite short.  I don't think JB is willing to risk loosing his job over setting a team precedent no more than a 30 year old Dubas was.  

 

26 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

It was a rookie GM trying to be cocky and I'm glad their team is suffering for it, but it's affecting the entire league which is unfortunate.

I agree about the cocky part but he wasn't the one that started this trend.  Eichel getting 10 million in 2017 comes to mind.  Kane and Toews got paid big and really started the big super star contracts but at least they had cup rings.  I look at many of these RFA's who are leaving ELC and then willing to hold out for big dollars all doing hat without having ever won 2 rounds of playoffs yet. 

[theo5789]

35 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

JB hasn't really been in the situation of having to sign am elite young player yet, Brock is really the first one and we will see how that goes.  You could argue that about Bo but i'd say he wasn't in the same company as the other peer signings from the 2016-2017 seasons.

 

While the team (TO) was doing well, they were also in a great window.  Matthews and Marner were still on ELC, Marleau was still playing good and it was the perfect time to take advantage that last year of cap freedom.  In the end Nylander did get overpaid but really not by much, I'd say his value is closer to 6.25 million, so really he's only getting a 700k overpayment which isn't that bad on a normal roster.  It becomes more noticeable when you are trying to pay out big contracts to 3 other guys, I think he gets moved next summer but I also thinks he's quite underrated on these board in the two full seasons Nylander played he's out produced Marner in even strength points and did that while receiving 132 less ozone starts.  I'm not saying he's better than marner, who plays a better all around game just that I don't think Nylander is the albatross people love to make him out to be.

 

BB is one of our top line wingers but realistically this teams window hasn't even opened up yet.  We might see it crack open a peak this year if all goes well.  The pressure solely relies on the the individual GM's leash and in Canada all Gm's leashes are quite short.  I don't think JB is willing to risk loosing his job over setting a team precedent no more than a 30 year old Dubas was.  

 

I agree about the cocky part but he wasn't the one that started this trend.  Eichel getting 10 million in 2017 comes to mind.  Kane and Toews got paid big and really started the big super star contracts but at least they had cup rings.  I look at many of these RFA's who are leaving ELC and then willing to hold out for big dollars all doing hat without having ever won 2 rounds of playoffs yet. 

Dubas should've looked at the long term (even short term of 3 years) and he wouldn't have gotten himself in this mess. What did he really expect to happen? They had a nice window, but they closed it fairly quickly at this point. Marner shouldn't be the guy they dicked around. If Nylander wanted to play hard ball, let him sit in Europe for a year, maybe he signs the following year much cheaper. Toronto wasn't flying already. If Matthews only wanted 5 years, no way they should've paid him 11.6 million or whatever he got. Could've traded him for a ransom to bolster the lineup overall (see Lindros type trade) and built a real team. Nylander doesn't look as overpaid in today's market, but he is indeed an albatross in their current situation. Hopefully for him and them that he actually at least reverts back to his 60 point days. 

 

I agree that this is JB's first real test because of the market, but JB has dealt with his RFAs very well, so I don't think he's going to go nuts here.

 

Of course there are other examples of this mess, but Toronto had the prime opportunity with Nylander to correct the situation and not continue it with Matthews. It's frustrating that actual decent GMs are being screwed by the few morons in the league.

[rekker]

Rumour is Marner has been offered 11 million a year times 7 years. I always support players getting what they deserve. No one wants to watch me play hockey and they are best. I love watching NHL hockey, I get it. But damn. Its been a long day and I just cracked a cold Pilsner. It's tough at times to support someone that can't sign on the dotted line of an offer like that to play for your home town team.