Benning trying to get to "common ground" with Boeser

[RWMc1]

William Karlsson took 5.9 million per for 8 seasons. Everyone is comparing the top end contracts and ignoring all others. I like Boeser but he has had the privilege of playing with Bo and then Petey. He hasn't been the one driving the play and I hope he and his agent recognize that and settle for a 3-4 show me contract at a reasonable hit. 7 Shmill for a short contract is too much.

[IBatch]

51 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

The fact that a player that hasn't made an impact since kesler...makes me think Canucks were truly bad at drafting...,

yes I remember Brock and the door and Brock got PP time and was the trigger man for Sedins and for Bo....

your right Brock beat linden by 5 points....linden did it in 73 games...

Linden also played center unlike Brock..

you comparing apples to oranges....

Brock also has more questions around him then both linden and bure....

if Brock wants more then 7 on a short term deal then bye and I've stated our teams depth is deeper and like Petey said he can play with anyone.... 

Petey could play with goldy and ferland and Petey could reach 40 goals.....while Brock sits out....

 

 

Ha ha - Linden was a winger until they moved him to center in 94 as we had nobody that could handle Otto in the Calgary series.  Don’t pretend to know things you don’t because it’s obvious you didn’t watch him play back then.  Behind the numbers is a lot of things of course and Linden was the great hope for us after we drafted him and turned into the best leader the club has ever had - did you know for example he went to camp without a deal?

 

However he didn’t have BB shot, maybe Naslund and Bure did, and EPs is great too, but no he didn’t have that.  Both are/were right wingers so yes it is comparing apples to apples - the main difference is Linden came into the league right away, his third and fourth year are actually pretty much the same PPG, of course until you adjust it per era and then things get a little muddy (and Brock shines through).    I don’t for a second believe he’s injury prone - a freak accident broke his back otherwise he’d likely have finished his rookie year with 70ish points and close to 40 goals.  It took him some time to gain traction last year, but when he came back in March he was a PPGer and scoring at a 40 goal pace again - that’s what I’m pretty sure he will accomplish over a full season.   

 

Of course Linden turned into a great two-way center - and is an icon.  All I said was the only guys I’ve seen that have had as much impact as BB as rookies are Bure, Linden, EP and maybe Nedved.  That’s pretty much a fact.

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

William Karlsson took 5.9 million per for 8 seasons. Everyone is comparing the top end contracts and ignoring all others. I like Boeser but he has had the privilege of playing with Bo and then Petey. He hasn't been the one driving the play and I hope he and his agent recognize that and settle for a 3-4 show me contract at a reasonable hit. 7 Shmill for a short contract is too much.

His back is a huge concern for me. Short term deal please.

Sometimes it is also best to move a player when their value is at it's peak.  If he wants the moon then maybe he should be traded.  Minnesota for Boldy and two firsts. This club still needs to add high end skill if the cup is our goal.

There is a young D man in Colorado that may want to sign here next year. We have no money to even think about that.  Maybe they could move LE with Brock.

[RowdyCanuck]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ha ha - Linden was a winger until they moved him to center in 94 as we had nobody that could handle Otto in the Calgary series.  Don’t pretend to know things you don’t because it’s obvious you didn’t watch him play back then.  Behind the numbers is a lot of things of course and Linden was the great hope for us after we drafted him and turned into the best leader the club has ever had - did you know for example he went to camp without a deal?

 

However he didn’t have BB shot, maybe Naslund and Bure did, and EPs is great too, but no he didn’t have that.  Both are/were right wingers so yes it is comparing apples to apples - the main difference is Linden came into the league right away, his third and fourth year are actually pretty much the same PPG, of course until you adjust it per era and then things get a little muddy (and Brock shines through).    I don’t for a second believe he’s injury prone - a freak accident broke his back otherwise he’d likely have finished his rookie year with 70ish points and close to 40 goals.  It took him some time to gain traction last year, but when he came back in March he was a PPGer and scoring at a 40 goal pace again - that’s what I’m pretty sure he will accomplish over a full season.   

 

Of course Linden turned into a great two-way center - and is an icon.  All I said was the only guys I’ve seen that have had as much impact as BB as rookies are Bure, Linden, EP and maybe Nedved.  That’s pretty much a fact.

Yes I remember linden showing up to camp without a deal.....kinda funny how Brock won't do the same.....

 

you  don't think his injury prone?....his wrist has been a problem since college.....has it not?....

How many players where suppose to put up big numbers but got injuried.....Heatley comes to find....promising career but......

you right Brock did light things up as a rookie but I'm not sold that he belongs in the same sentence as bure linden....his good but Canucks fans have been so neglected when it comes to prospects....so I take Brock with a grain of salt....

even look around the league Brock is good but his not in that elite tier. 

 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Yes I remember linden showing up to camp without a deal.....kinda funny how Brock won't do the same.....

 

you  don't think his injury prone?....his wrist has been a problem since college.....has it not?....

How many players where suppose to put up big numbers but got injuried.....Heatley comes to find....promising career but......

you right Brock did light things up as a rookie but I'm not sold that he belongs in the same sentence as bure linden....his good but Canucks fans have been so neglected when it comes to prospects....so I take Brock with a grain of salt....

even look around the league Brock is good but his not in that elite tier. 

 

For better or worse he had earned the right to be in the same sentence.   Heatley wasn’t injury prone he was in a horrible car accident.  When he got to OTT he was part of the best line in hockey for a few years - arguably their best player too.   ANA dismantled them but he led the playoffs in scoring with his linemates so it wasn’t for lack of trying.  Ended up hated in OTT for contract issues later and dropped off the map when he left - Rick Nash was similar.   Both big bodies and high picks. 

 

Maybe BB will be average and has already peaked (doubtful) but he’s definitely started his career like few others in our history- and is part of a very exclusive and small list of guys ever to be named a Calder candidate or winner. 

[RowdyCanuck]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

For better or worse he had earned the right to be in the same sentence.   Heatley wasn’t injury prone he was in a horrible car accident.  When he got to OTT he was part of the best line in hockey for a few years - arguably their best player too.   ANA dismantled them but he led the playoffs in scoring with his linemates so it wasn’t for lack of trying.  Ended up hated in OTT for contract issues later and dropped off the map when he left - Rick Nash was similar.   Both big bodies and high picks. 

 

Maybe BB will be average and has already peaked (doubtful) but he’s definitely started his career like few others in our history- and is part of a very exclusive and small list of guys ever to be named a Calder candidate or winner. 

His also has played with better centers....

yea I remember that series....

my point was freak things happen and some players never bounce back.....just like Brock going into the door....

I don't put much weight into Calder race cause over the years , we have all seen players, other then the winners..there been a few that  disappear after words.....

I agree we have lacked high end prospects/ players , so a course Brock looks good. His a heck of a sniper....but if he sits I don't see the whole world , come crashing down....

oh you didn't mention his wrist so that's not a concern for you? 

[hammertime]

7 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

My bad I didn't think he was 6,2 

i would give up a 1 and 2 and a 3 , pretty much what we have up for Miller but the 2 and Charlie could be the piece that pushes us over the top....picture Hughes and Charlie drool lol

i agree but I don't think van will pick him up cause you don't win with three smurfs in your top six , I can't think of one team built their D like that and did good in the playoffs...

that second part I assume you are referring to Honka. I'd probably pick him up as a 7/8 D and frankie corrado him as insurance incase Hughes or Stetcher go down.  

[RowdyCanuck]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

that second part I assume you are referring to Honka. I'd probably pick him up as a 7/8 D and frankie corrado him as insurance incase Hughes or Stetcher go down.  

I think we have decent enough depth D... Benn and honka could work but stech would be going or injuried....

[hammertime]

1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I think we have decent enough depth D... Benn and honka could work but stech would be going or injuried....

meh we will have to wait and see if he hits the waiver wire. free offensive RHD prospects dont come up too often tho. a couple years ago he would have cost an arm and a leg to acquire. But I guess so would Madison Bowie. A couple years changed a lot.

[stawns]

57 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Not happening.  I think it is going to take 7 to 8 mil per.

I hope I'm wrong.

If that were true it'd be done and he'd be at camp.  If he's asking that, it's not impossible that's he's played his last game in Van

[RowdyCanuck]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

meh we will have to wait and see if he hits the waiver wire. free offensive RHD prospects dont come up too often tho. a couple years ago he would have cost an arm and a leg to acquire. But I guess so would Madison Bowie. A couple years changed a lot.

Same goes pouliot and we all saw how that worked out. 

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

His also has played with better centers....

yea I remember that series....

my point was freak things happen and some players never bounce back.....just like Brock going into the door....

I don't put much weight into Calder race cause over the years , we have all seen players, other then the winners..there been a few that  disappear after words.....

I agree we have lacked high end prospects/ players , so a course Brock looks good. His a heck of a sniper....but if he sits I don't see the whole world , come crashing down....

oh you didn't mention his wrist so that's not a concern for you? 

No his wrist isn’t a concern at all.  I believe him and what I’ve read about him being in the best shape of his life.  The injuries have a silver lining in that it’s forced him to treat his body and his training routine at a totally different level.  Now he has a nutritionist and a group of people working with him all the time.  If your interested there is a good article that covers some of this in the most recent Hockey News - can’t miss it because Quin Hughes is on the cover - they selected Brock Boeser as the right winger they wanted to write about when introducing their top 25 players by position for this year - something they take seriously.  He ranked 8 right behind a Rantanen and way ahead of Meir, Laine and Nylander (22) and a bunch of other very good vets (Kessel for example).

 

I agree the whole world won’t come crashing down - but also think if JB let’s him sit for the duration it’s deliberate tanking - and not the script that he’s trying to write for his club this year.

 

As far as the Calder goes its the hardest trophy to win as you only get one shot at it, and often the best player out of that draft doesn’t win.   But the winners and finalists usually go on to have good- HHOF careers and it does matter.   Rather he’d be winning Richard trophies of course ... 

 

Finally I’m not sure what you mean when you say he’s also played with better centers...Boeser?  He’s played with a very good second line center and a rookie who had one of the worst face off percentages in the league last year, and was also producing like a very good second line center or mediocre first line one overall.  EPs PPG after December was modest but not good - around .58 (for a first line center)  BB in March down the stretch was almost a PPG. 

 

Brock looks good because he IS good, not because we’ve lacked good prospects  in the past.  I’m sure 30 other teams in the league would love to have him and pay him market value even if it meant trading a player or two.

[IBatch]

31 minutes ago, stawns said:

If that were true it'd be done and he'd be at camp.  If he's asking that, it's not impossible that's he's played his last game in Van

Wow now the catsrophizing starts ... he’s going to sign and when he does it won’t be so bad.   For fun go and look at the speculation about when it was rumoured Myers was coming to town- 7-8 million wasn’t uncommon in what people thought it would take - same with Edler even.  There’s no way JB doesn’t sign him, ticket sales and playoffs are a big part of the goal too - and for that, well you need someone who can score goals.  1 million or so is chump change compared to that.  Also players tend not to do as well when they miss camp and some games (Horvat talks about this on NHL.com too) ... I suspect we will sign him before the season starts so JB can resolve any cap issues related to the deal .but I guess you never do know.

 

 

edit: and why wouldn’t he ask for 7?  It’s a pretty fair number ... now if he wants an AHO deal then that’s a pass.   Doubt he will make less then Nylander unless it’s a very short bridge..

Edited September 12, 2019 by IBatch

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

His also has played with better centers....

yea I remember that series....

my point was freak things happen and some players never bounce back.....just like Brock going into the door....

I don't put much weight into Calder race cause over the years , we have all seen players, other then the winners..there been a few that  disappear after words.....

I agree we have lacked high end prospects/ players , so a course Brock looks good. His a heck of a sniper....but if he sits I don't see the whole world , come crashing down....

oh you didn't mention his wrist so that's not a concern for you? 

Edit: sorry wrong post was referring to McAvoy

Edited September 13, 2019 by IBatch

[Smashian Kassian]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

cap management isn't the issue outside of having a cp structure for RFA's with no leverage.  Going out and investing in high quality bottom 6 veteran players was the smartest thing he could have done, those are the players that you win Cups with.  BB is the one completely out to lunch in this situation.  Know your position on the team and understand that if you put in the time as an RFA, making good money, you will cash in when you become UFA..........that's how it works.

 

Your not winning a cup with Loui Eriksson or Sam Gagner. And not Tim Schaller either. (atleast the one we saw last year). Cup teams don't usually sign bottom of the roster players to big money contracts.

 

Anyways, re bolded: Things have changed. Now the young players are better coming into the league. Brock Boeser has as many or more goals his first 2 years than Toews, Stone, Panarin, Forsberg, Hall, Meier, Kuznetsov, Marner, Wheeler. I know your opinion of Brock might not be as high as other's, but this is a great young goal scorer, You have to pay for goals. He's not a finished product & he's already helping carry this team. 

 

 

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

All Benning has to do is give him one year at 6.5-7 and re-sign him with the extra cap next year - plus if both sides really want a long term deal training camp and the pre-season will undoubtedly bring some trade opportunities - guys gets injured on every team and Benning has several cheap options on short contracts that other teams might find interesting.   He can figure something out - look Chakya did in short order to fix things.  He’s just holding on to his depth as long as he can and trying to make it work with what he’s got first - we can be over the cap until the season starts too...

 

Well if you sign him at a certain number it'll affect the QO the next year. If we could sign him one year at 6.5-7 & kick it down the road, I agree I'd probably do that. Then its Benning's big task to clear some space.

 

I do think part of this is Benning trying to set a structure for the guys to follow. If we could sign Boeser for 7.5 long term I'd do it, but they are probably looking at how productive he's been & Keller just signing, and saying he's worth 7 right now nevermind long term. I don't think this'll carry on forever but until he's signed its still carrying on, and this team cannot afford to not have him this year, IMO. 

[RowdyCanuck]

35 minutes ago, IBatch said:

No his wrist isn’t a concern at all.  I believe him and what I’ve read about him being in the best shape of his life.  The injuries have a silver lining in that it’s forced him to treat his body and his training routine at a totally different level.  Now he has a nutritionist and a group of people working with him all the time.  If your interested there is a good article that covers some of this in the most recent Hockey News - can’t miss it because Quin Hughes is on the cover - they selected Brock Boeser as the right winger they wanted to write about when introducing their top 25 players by position for this year - something they take seriously.  He ranked 8 right behind a Rantanen and way ahead of Meir, Laine and Nylander (22) and a bunch of other very good vets (Kessel for example).

 

I agree the whole world won’t come crashing down - but also think if JB let’s him sit for the duration it’s deliberate tanking - and not the script that he’s trying to write for his club this year.

 

As far as the Calder goes its the hardest trophy to win as you only get one shot at it, and often the best player out of that draft doesn’t win.   But the winners and finalists usually go on to have good- HHOF careers and it does matter.   Rather he’d be winning Richard trophies of course ... 

 

Finally I’m not sure what you mean when you say he’s also played with better centers...Boeser?  He’s played with a very good second line center and a rookie who had one of the worst face off percentages in the league last year, and was also producing like a very good second line center or mediocre first line one overall.  EPs PPG after December was modest but not good - around .58 (for a first line center)  BB in March down the stretch was almost a PPG. 

 

Brock looks good because he IS good, not because we’ve lacked good prospects  in the past.  I’m sure 30 other teams in the league would love to have him and pay him market value even if it meant trading a player or two.

In my books his wrist is a problem....it always ends up bugging him and that worries me. 

Wasnt nail yak in the running too and there's more players that look good but don't live up to the hype.....to a degree Myers could be part of that. 

Talent wise bo and Petey are probably two of the best centers I've seen.....

okay we won't agree on Brock and we see different sides of him....I don't trust his wrist and last year Brock was in great shape but it wasn't the right balance for him. 

I like Brock but I don't like Brock at 8+ Cause he hasn't shown enough or show he can bring more to the table....

I want him on a affordable bridge deal.....then if he blows up, I'll eat my crow with a smile cause if I'm wrong it's better for the Canucks. 

i think  its best to just say cheers ha

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Edit: sorry wrong post was referring to McAvoy

What you mean? Kinda confused sorry

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, RWMc1 said:

William Karlsson took 5.9 million per for 8 seasons. Everyone is comparing the top end contracts and ignoring all others. I like Boeser but he has had the privilege of playing with Bo and then Petey. He hasn't been the one driving the play and I hope he and his agent recognize that and settle for a 3-4 show me contract at a reasonable hit. 7 Shmill for a short contract is too much.

Boeser definitely was the one driving the play his rookie year. He created offense with Vanek & Gagner ffs.

 

The PP went from 14.1% (29th) to 21.4% (9th), and Brock was the addition to that PP. 

 

 

[hammertime]

57 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Same goes pouliot and we all saw how that worked out. 

for sure. I was high on Honka a while back tho so I'm probably biased. if he comes up for free I'd take a flyer if it works out could be a win if not back on waivers he goes. no skin. 

[Smashian Kassian]

45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Brock looks good because he IS good, not because we’ve lacked good prospects  in the past.  I’m sure 30 other teams in the league would love to have him and pay him market value even if it meant trading a player or two.

Exactly. This guys a stud goal scorer. 0.85 PPG this early on a bad offensive team. This is a critical signing for us.

[RowdyCanuck]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Boeser definitely was the one driving the play his rookie year. He created offense with Vanek & Gagner ffs.

 

The PP went from 14.1% (29th) to 21.4% (9th), and Brock was the addition to that PP. 

 

 

Your right , he can work the PP like a boss but 5on5 his not a driver sorry....Bo and petey are the drivers and Brock knew where to go and boom that's why they work.