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[Proposal] Sutter for Pulujarvi

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14 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

I wouldn't say Sutter is a core need, there are players like him available every summer in free agency.

 

Would we trade Juolevi for an injury prone bottom six player with a high cap hit? No chance. Despite Puljujarvis comments, he should at least get a potential top six player in return.

Sorry, I don't agree with your validation of Puljujvaris…………...he is starting his draft +4 year, with not much to show for it. And as a Offensive player, having had the chance to play with McDavid, he should have shown more...…...

 

As for Juolevi...….people have to get off his case, he has been injured (which is his only draw back) his development has been fine (defensemen take longer to develop), but yes, he comes with risk too!

 

I am in agreement with you that Sutter is not a core player...……..never was IMO

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Why would we want to improve the Oilers team with Sutter,the Oilers have had 4 first overall picks in the last few years and have been extemely lucky at the lotto draft while the Canucks have gone an unprecedented four years in a row the wrong way at this B.S. lotto draft.

The Canucks have never had even one first overall draft pick according to the internet,so to me,No Way.

No way do we want to help the Oilers at all,let them continue to suck even after all their luck.

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2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I with you on this one Smash

 

I also think Sutter has good value for a 3rd line center, who has versatility of playing up and wing...…...he is when healthy a pretty good swiss army knife

 

In saying that Pool party still has potential upside, so I think it will be a little hard for Edmonton to give up on the kid......Value wise, I think Sutter has more value

 

but, potential wise, Pool party far out weighs Sutter...…….

 

What I would like is, which is being discussed is...……..

 

Pool Party + Khaira

for

Sutter ( 2M retained) + the lesser of Brisebois/Sautner

 

That keeps Edmonton under the cap

 

and gives Vancouver another 1.8 M for 2 year to sign Boeser after paying Khaira

 

The reason for adding Brisebois/Sautner to the deal is that it gives Edmonton a little more depth, while taking from a strong point of our depth

(We also need to clear a LHD because we will have Rathbone coming on line)

I don’t think your math works.

 

With retaining $2 million on Sutter, and taking on Khaira we end up with about $1.18 extra space which gets eaten up plus more by Puljujarvi, who probably gets more than who we waived to make room for him.

 

I wouldn’t retain on Sutter regardless.  He is barely overpaid if at all... and Edmonton would have to WAY overpay an equivalent UFA.  

 

Edmonton wind this trade on a probability basis.  Sutter is more likely to get back to being a solid 3rd line centre than Puljujarvi does an equivalent winger.  One has a resume and one hasn’t cracked the worst top six winger core in the league that is desperate for skill and scoring from that position, and was behind Sam Gagner on the depth chart.

 

We win the trade on “potential” basis because we have a chance to unlock PP’s top six potential.... but projects most often just keep being projects, so there is every chance he doesn’t make it and can’t reinvent himself into a 3rd liner.

 

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27 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

I wouldn't say Sutter is a core need, there are players like him available every summer in free agency.

 

Would we trade Juolevi for an injury prone bottom six player with a high cap hit? No chance. Despite Puljujarvis comments, he should at least get a potential top six player in return.

I agree on both points.

 

Sutter probably was core when he was 26. And we needed a defensive centre to shelter Bo.  The he got hurt. And we threw Bo in the deep end anyway... Now?  Merely useful. And replaceable.  I have said in other threads though. Not a dead loss?  Poor value, sure!  But every team has at least two useful guys who get paid too much.

 

No chance in hell we trade Juolevi for a Sutter like asset. You are correct in that Edmonton does not cut their losses that hard.He's 6'4'' and fast.  There is a way for a coach to deploy pool party.  Before anyone reminds me, I know he does not fight.  But his floor is a player like Zach Kassian.  And I personally believe Puljujarvi is much more gifted. I suspect / expect he will surface more significantly.

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47 minutes ago, xereau said:

What about at the TDL?

If Edmonton is in the crapper again, by all means. I just don't want to create any more competition within our division for this years playoffs. 

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Would love this, but Edmonton has a really bad cap issue. They need to move more cap out, not acquire more.

 

I think trading Goldobin for him would be more realistic, just based on the cap requirements for both players is about equal.

 

I think that overall, if someone went to Edmonton and said that we'll give you a 2nd in 2020, and a 3rd in 2021, they would probably jump at it as it removes immediate cap requirements from them for next year.

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2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Would love this, but Edmonton has a really bad cap issue. They need to move more cap out, not acquire more.

 

I think trading Goldobin for him would be more realistic, just based on the cap requirements for both players is about equal.

 

I think that overall, if someone went to Edmonton and said that we'll give you a 2nd in 2020, and a 3rd in 2021, they would probably jump at it as it removes immediate cap requirements from them for next year.

And a second plus a third is pretty much Poolparty’s value.  I just see where he fits into our lineup?  He has to clear waivers to be sent down.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Would love this, but Edmonton has a really bad cap issue. They need to move more cap out, not acquire more.

They need players and need to get better.  They BADLY need a 3C and have the cap space to do it.   Right now it is Gagner or Granlund.... and we all know how that will work out for them.

Sutter only has two years of term left so isn’t a big cap to absorb.

 

They don’t have a lot of dead money to move out in terms of players they can afford to let go of.  They just have a lot of players overpaid for what they bring.  Unfortunately, if they traded those guys away (and had to sweeten the pot to do so), they would have to replace them and equally overpay to entice a UFA to come there.

 

Swapping In Neal for Lucic and then adding Sutter actually improves their forward corps a lot compared with last season.  They still have to fix their D and goaltending... but good luck with that unless they trade Draisaitl, and if that was going to happen it probably would have before July 1st.

Edited by Provost

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Posted (edited)

I love the basis of the idea and makes a lot of sense academically, but I truly believe that Puljujarvi would be very difficult to acquire because if you look at his toolbox, his potential is still sky high.  I just look at his size and his skating stride, and man oh man, if he's can put it all together then look out... Sure, I think he's still a little bit on the immature side, but he's only 21 - and I find it pretty amazing that so many young NHL'ers are able to figure things out so quickly. The talent is 100% there and he still has the opportunity to become a very unique finesse player in this league, and that can't be taught.

 

It could certainly happen, especially when you consider that Benning has already traded veterans like Sutter & Hansen for other projects who are highly skilled. One (Dahlen) hasn't worked out and there's a high chance that the other (Goldobin) won't either. I'm still a big believer in Pulj and certainly hope we can trade for him, but I don't think it would be as easy as some might think. Even Holland said he wouldn't move him unless there was a good offer on the table. If they wanted they could just leave him in Finland, which would probably benefit his value anyways. 

 

Edited by Herberts Vasiljevs

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I think if Sutter is healthy this could be a fair trade. They might consider it if we retain cap on Sutter though. 

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Khaira is a fan favorite . He won't get moved with poolparty. Would love to have him here though kid is tough as nails can chuck them and has offensive upside.

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2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

I wouldn't say Sutter is a core need, there are players like him available every summer in free agency.

 

Would we trade Juolevi for an injury prone bottom six player with a high cap hit? No chance. Despite Puljujarvis comments, he should at least get a potential top six player in return.

I think a defensive C is a core need for them.  I don't mean to say he is a core or foundational player but he addresses a core need decently well.  While I agree that there are usually these players in free agency from time to time, I think Edmonton has troubles signing who they want meaning that they have to look other routes (Brassard as a perfect example of that).  Puljujarvi's and Joulevi's situations are a bit different because JP is needing to be in the NHL and Joulevi is still on an entry deal.

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2 hours ago, Provost said:

They need players and need to get better.  They BADLY need a 3C and have the cap space to do it.   Right now it is Gagner or Granlund.... and we all know how that will work out for them.

Sutter only has two years of term left so isn’t a big cap to absorb.

 

They don’t have a lot of dead money to move out in terms of players they can afford to let go of.  They just have a lot of players overpaid for what they bring.  Unfortunately, if they traded those guys away (and had to sweeten the pot to do so), they would have to replace them and equally overpay to entice a UFA to come there.

 

Swapping In Neal for Lucic and then adding Sutter actually improves their forward corps a lot compared with last season.  They still have to fix their D and goaltending... but good luck with that unless they trade Draisaitl, and if that was going to happen it probably would have before July 1st.

They still have a massive amount of work to do and have sat idle for most of the summer. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

I agree that Sutter's value isn't that high, but neither is Puljujarvi's at the moment.  I think the key here is that Edmonton can't attract free agents and their prospects aren't ready and usually never are.  They get a core need at the expense of a prospect that is not fitting their team, city etc.

Puljujarvi has more value based on age, control, and salary alone. 

 

There’s no way Edmonton does this trade, one-for-one. 

 

Edited by shiznak
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Posted (edited)

Edm won't give up Khaira to dump Pulju. They can sit on Pulju. No rush to move him. Let him play in Finland if that's what happens. 

 

Khaira is a good low cost player.  Big body physical guy. 

 

Sutter 2 mill retained plus a B prospect for Pulju would get it done. 

 

I don't think it's good idea to sell Sutter this low. He's at lowest value in his career right now.  Plus we need a good 3C if we want to make playoffs. Gaudette is not ready yet..

 

Sutter has a good healthy season with Canucks and maybe move him next summer when he has higher value and Gaudette is ready to be 3C. 

 

I think Sutter stays relatively healthy and has a 15g 20 asst 35 pts season. 

 

 

 

Edited by WHL rocks

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Benning said today on the Sekeres show that he wants to start Gaudette in Utica.  He wants to develop him well because he thinks that he has the potential to be a high end player.  Benning doesn't believe that he can develop the offensive skills that he showed on his way to the Hobey Baker in the NHL.

 

He also said that acquiring Miller is all about helping the top 6.  He can play centre but that is not the plan for him

 

So if Sutter is gone, who plays 3C?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

I think a defensive C is a core need for them.  I don't mean to say he is a core or foundational player but he addresses a core need decently well.  While I agree that there are usually these players in free agency from time to time, I think Edmonton has troubles signing who they want meaning that they have to look other routes (Brassard as a perfect example of that).  Puljujarvi's and Joulevi's situations are a bit different because JP is needing to be in the NHL and Joulevi is still on an entry deal.

They could just sign Brian Boyle, at a cheaper salary, if they want a shutdown C. 

 

I'm just saying Juolevi as I think he has similar value to Puljujarvi. We wouldn't trade OJ for a player like Sutter, and nor should Edmonton (as great as that would be).

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1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

 

Sutter has a good healthy season with Canucks and maybe move him next summer when he has higher value and Gaudette is ready to be 3C. 

 

this is another important point - Gaudette still has training wheels on, he's not ready yet to be a regular NHL 3C. I'd like to see them on the same line so Gaudette can learn from Sutter before we part with him. 

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1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

I don't think it's good idea to sell Sutter this low. He's at lowest value in his career right now.  Plus we need a good 3C if we want to make playoffs. Gaudette is not ready yet..

I think that Bo showed last year he can do Sutter's job, and put up points.

 

Putting Gaudette into some more offensive situations could not possibly hurt his development.

 

But you are right, he will be worth much more at the TDL than he is right now. If he is healthy.


With so much time off, he is also, at the healthiest he has been in a long time.

 

If he's on the LTIR again on trade day, I will just shake my head and laugh.

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