[Proposal] Sutter for Pulujarvi

[Provost]

1 hour ago, shazzam said:

This leaves us without much center depth. I'm not sold on Gaudette just yet. Probably needs a year in AHL.

 

If Gaudette beats out Sutter in camp then I got nothing to say

Not really, certainly no worse than any other position.  We have hardly had Sutter for the last couple seasons anyways so he hasn’t helped our depth out much.

 

Beagle is capable of moving up to the third line.  Miller has played a lot at centre as well and can play on an offensive or defensive line.  Graovic and MacEwan also play centre in case we need them for spot injury duties on the 4th line if we get a rash during the season.

 

Petterson

Horvat

Gaudette

Beagle

Miller

MacEwan

Graovic

 

If we have lost 3/4 of our  starting C, we can kiss the season goodbye, same as if we lost 3/4 of our starting D or 3/4ths of our wingers, or two goalies. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Provost

[JeremyCuddles]

9 hours ago, hammertime said:

where does JP fit in our line up???

Right next to Eriksson on the line of underperforming, potentially demanding players. 

[Pete M]

On 8/22/2019 at 12:43 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

when Sutter is healthy he's a very good shut down C. He'll be the guy we match up against McDavid much of the time. 

 

So assuming good health, I do think it benefits Edmonton a lot. RNH is freed up for more offensive starts and they actually have a good shut down line in Sutter and Granny too. 

 

I see why you would suggest the deal, I'd just rather do it with an eastern team. 

We have Beagle for 3 more years to be the shut down center...Sutter for JP is a good trade and would help both teams.

 

OJ and JP reunite.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Pete M

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, Pete M said:

We have Beagle for 3 more years to be the shut down center...Sutter for JP is a good trade and would help both teams.

 

OJ and JP reunite.

sure, I just think it helps Edmonton more than us.

 

Clearing cap space is great but a healthy Sutter is exactly the kind of player Edmonton desperately needs and can't afford right now, seems like a very good deal for them if the return is just and under performing Puljujarvi. 

 

I also like the idea of having both Sutter and Beagle for the playoffs this year. 

[Pete M]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sure, I just think it helps Edmonton more than us.

 

Clearing cap space is great but a healthy Sutter is exactly the kind of player Edmonton desperately needs and can't afford right now, seems like a very good deal for them if the return is just and under performing Puljujarvi. 

 

I also like the idea of having both Sutter and Beagle for the playoffs this year. 

idk, lots of moveable parts this year (options) and potential for players to step up and be a player...even Utica, there are centers that could prove themselves like Tyler Graovac and Gaudette...even Miller could be a center if a player like Goldy steps up...good year to sell high on Sutter. I would say JP is a good trade

Graovac is listed on the Canucks roster right now

Edited August 24, 2019 by Pete M

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Pete M said:

idk, lots of moveable parts this year (options) and potential for players to step up and be a player...even Utica, there are centers that could prove themselves like Tyler Graovac and Gaudette...even Miller could be a center if a player like Goldy steps up...good year to sell high on Sutter. I would say JP is a good trade

Graovac is listed on the Canucks roster right now

would you still like the deal if Edmonton takes enough points from us that we miss the playoff cut? 

[Pete M]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

would you still like the deal if Edmonton takes enough points from us that we miss the playoff cut? 

won't happen if Sutter is traded to Oilers and Oilers are relying on him to be a 3rd line center....why? cause Sutter will probably get hurt and Sutter hasn't shown high end ability while playing for the Canucks...he has shown that he is injury prone.

[Provost]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

would you still like the deal if Edmonton takes enough points from us that we miss the playoff cut? 

That is silly logic, would you do that deal if Puljujarvi meshed with Horvat and scored 60 points next season?  Would you do that deal if Sutter ended up getting hurt in the first month of the season and was on LTIR for the year? You can pick any random future idea and argue it.

 

If Sutter is the difference between us getting best out for the playoffs we don’t deserve to be there and won’t win anything if we get there.

 

They would have a probable third line of Granlund-Sutter-Gagner.

 

The move makes us better by freeing up money and giving us some higher end ceiling players.

 

Khaira isn’t just a throw in, he is capable of being a guy like Ferland who can play higher in the lineup.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Provost

[mikeyman109]

first off let me say that i dont think Edmonton would accept Sutter for Pool Party. due to the fact they can get more on the open market.

 

I dont value Pulujarvi as much as some here. I see a Goldobin attitude player that doesnt even have Nikolays attitude. Pulujarvi may have more skill but he hasnt shown the desire to work on his game enough to be an NHL regular. Instead I'm going to take my puck and go home.

Secondly I like the fact that we have finally gotten to the point where we have a good mix of skill, grit, maturity and youth. I would like to see what this lineup can do this season before we trade a Sutter. His health is a grand question mark but when he is healthy he does make a difference.

I dont see who we would pull out of the top 6 to make room for him also. EP Boeser Miller Horvat Ferland and either Pearson or Baertschi give us less reason to trade for a reclamation project from Edmonton. The team it probably makes the most sense to try to attain him is Ottawa. They also might be the best destination for Goldobin as well. Teams that do not have a solid top 6 or 9 even have more reason to look at other teams project players. We have been there very recently. Leipsic, Goldobin, Leivo, Pooalot, all reclamation players from other teams, that may have been better than our options at the time. Today we are in a different position.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is silly logic, would you do that deal if Puljujarvi meshed with Horvat and scored 60 points next season?  Would you do that deal if Sutter ended up getting hurt in the first month of the season and was on LTIR for the year? You can pick any random future idea and argue it.

 

If Sutter is the difference between us getting best out for the playoffs we don’t deserve to be there and won’t win anything if we get there.

 

They would have a probable third line of Granlund-Sutter-Gagner.

 

The move makes us better by freeing up money and giving us some higher end ceiling players.

 

Khaira isn’t just a throw in, he is capable of being a guy like Ferland who can play higher in the lineup.

JP is a guy who needs waivers to go to Utica.  Clearly he’d get claimed, right?  Where do we play him, so he can learn to play without the puck?  He’s horrible without the puck.  He’s horrible with the puck too, unless it’s in a clear offensive chance.  

Sutter, on the other hand, allows the Oilers to play RNH in a strictly offensive role.  Sutter gives the Oilers a significant piece they are missing to make them a whole lot better.

How does JP make us better?  

[BPA]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JP is a guy who needs waivers to go to Utica.  Clearly he’d get claimed, right?  Where do we play him, so he can learn to play without the puck?  He’s horrible without the puck.  He’s horrible with the puck too, unless it’s in a clear offensive chance.  

Sutter, on the other hand, allows the Oilers to play RNH in a strictly offensive role.  Sutter gives the Oilers a significant piece they are missing to make them a whole lot better.

How does JP make us better?  

By packaging JP with LE in a trade for a 2nd round draft pick.

 

Think of all that cap space we free up.  About $10M.

 

[Pete M]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JP is a guy who needs waivers to go to Utica.  Clearly he’d get claimed, right?  Where do we play him, so he can learn to play without the puck?  He’s horrible without the puck.  He’s horrible with the puck too, unless it’s in a clear offensive chance.  

Sutter, on the other hand, allows the Oilers to play RNH in a strictly offensive role.  Sutter gives the Oilers a significant piece they are missing to make them a whole lot better.

How does JP make us better?  

not when he (Sutter) is hurt ...lol

[Provost]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JP is a guy who needs waivers to go to Utica.  Clearly he’d get claimed, right?  Where do we play him, so he can learn to play without the puck?  He’s horrible without the puck.  He’s horrible with the puck too, unless it’s in a clear offensive chance.  

Sutter, on the other hand, allows the Oilers to play RNH in a strictly offensive role.  Sutter gives the Oilers a significant piece they are missing to make them a whole lot better.

How does JP make us better?  

Sutter has averaged 45 games per season over the last four years and has had one effective season and that was three years ago.  He has had 9 less games per season than Tanev over that stretch and Tanev’s trade value has been completely destroyed by that level of fragility.

 

You are inventing the idea that he is a big difference maker or has value in trade.

 

Sutter and Puljujarvi are pretty equal risks in reality.  There is a little more chance that Sutter is a little bit healthier over the next two seasons and is effective than there is Puljujarvi becomes a solid top 9 winger.... but Puljujarvi also has a much higher ceiling which offsets that difference. 

 

Evrn if you get a young skilled winger who only tops out at 20 goals and 40 points under club control for several years, that is a win compared with a 3rd line defensive centre in his 30’s who is overpaid by at least a million dollars for the next two years.

 

We also have the win that freeing up the salary means.  It might mean we don’t have to give up a big asset to ditch Loui in his last year when we have to sign Petterson and Hughes... or it could be the difference in being able to sign a guy like Barrie next year or not.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Provost

[J.I.A.H.N]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JP is a guy who needs waivers to go to Utica.  Clearly he’d get claimed, right?  Where do we play him, so he can learn to play without the puck?  He’s horrible without the puck.  He’s horrible with the puck too, unless it’s in a clear offensive chance.  

Sutter, on the other hand, allows the Oilers to play RNH in a strictly offensive role.  Sutter gives the Oilers a significant piece they are missing to make them a whole lot better.

How does JP make us better?  

I see this a little differently Alf

 

I think Sutter is expendable......both talent wise and for cap reasons, so moving Sutter is a good thing in itself...……….

 

Obtaining Poolparty should be considered obtaining a  high end prospect, and should be considered in the same vain as Baertschi was (only higher), and the fact that he is going back to Finland for a year, is good in that he doesn't have to clear waivers to go to the A.

 

All in all.....it is a wash, and if Edmonton needs us to carry cap, the difference is Khaira for carrying that 2 M per year (for 2 years), with us adding a small plus

 

Maybe I am being greedy, buy Khaira would look great on our bottom 6, so I think it is a win/win for each team

 

Does it happen? No, because we are in the same division and Edmonton could not afford for Poolparty to develop in their face, and he is safe in Finland for now

 

But I would make this trade in a New York minute

[Pete M]

18 minutes ago, Provost said:

Sutter has averaged 45 games per season over the last four years and has had one effective season and that was three years ago.  He has had 9 less games per season than Tanev over that stretch and Tanev’s trade value has been completely destroyed by that level of fragility.

 

You are inventing the idea that he is a big difference maker or has value in trade.

 

Sutter and Puljujarvi are pretty equal risks in reality.  There is a little more chance that Sutter is a little bit healthier over the next two seasons and is effective than there is Puljujarvi becomes a solid top 9 winger.... but Puljujarvi also has a much higher ceiling which offsets that difference. 

 

Evrn if you get a young skilled winger who only tops out at 20 goals and 40 points under club control for several years, that is a win compared with a 3rd line defensive centre in his 30’s who is overpaid by at least a million dollars for the next two years.

 

We also have the win that freeing up the salary means.  It might mean we don’t have to give up a big asset to ditch Loui in his last year when we have to sign Petterson and Hughes... or it could be the difference in being able to sign a guy like Barrie next year or not.

sshhhhhh, need to speak well of Sutter....

 

....gotta up his trade value somehow.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

won't happen if Sutter is traded to Oilers and Oilers are relying on him to be a 3rd line center....why? cause Sutter will probably get hurt and Sutter hasn't shown high end ability while playing for the Canucks...he has shown that he is injury prone.

thats where we disagree I think. I think Sutter is very under rated on CDC. 

[JM_]

40 minutes ago, Provost said:

Sutter has averaged 45 games per season over the last four years and has had one effective season and that was three years ago.  He has had 9 less games per season than Tanev over that stretch and Tanev’s trade value has been completely destroyed by that level of fragility.

 

You are inventing the idea that he is a big difference maker or has value in trade.

 

Sutter and Puljujarvi are pretty equal risks in reality.  There is a little more chance that Sutter is a little bit healthier over the next two seasons and is effective than there is Puljujarvi becomes a solid top 9 winger.... but Puljujarvi also has a much higher ceiling which offsets that difference. 

 

Evrn if you get a young skilled winger who only tops out at 20 goals and 40 points under club control for several years, that is a win compared with a 3rd line defensive centre in his 30’s who is overpaid by at least a million dollars for the next two years.

 

We also have the win that freeing up the salary means.  It might mean we don’t have to give up a big asset to ditch Loui in his last year when we have to sign Petterson and Hughes... or it could be the difference in being able to sign a guy like Barrie next year or not.

I guess I'm just not buying in, I think I value Sutter's ability more than you do and see it as a very good deal for Edmonton. They get a shut down C and get to use RNH more offensively. I do see that as an improvement you don't want to make for a division rival for a player thats failed to launch in JP and a redundant player on the bottom 6.

 

[Pete M]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats where we disagree I think. I think Sutter is very under rated on CDC. 

Sutter is an average player...3rd line centerman...who is injury prone while playing for the Canucks. He plays a role, but is far from high end.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

Sutter is an average player...3rd line centerman...who is injury prone while playing for the Canucks. He plays a role, but is far from high end.

Even if thats accurate, I still don't know why we'd want to help Edmonton obtaining that. Puljujarvi hasn't shown much at the NHL level, and been OK in the AHL. Edmonton isn't really treating him like a guy they're worried about losing. 

 

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree 

[higgyfan]

I can't say I'd be very happy to see the 1st overall pick man being dropped down to 3C because Sutter is traded for the floating pyjama party.

 

Canucks can't afford another project that has to stay with the team because he is waiver ineligible.