Future Cap Issues (Discussion)

[PunjabiCanucks]

Boeser's contract is rumored at 7 Million , while I do seem its in the range of fair I personally dont like the deal as its short term and he will be resigned when the new TV deal comes into play. However it is nice as he will remain an RFA. I do believe tho we must avoid giving him 8.5m+ in his last year as it may handicap us come time.

 

Now besides the info stated above that we all know. We may fall into the same hole most teams find themselves of not being to able to sign their star players/ acquire good depth. Horvat imo took a bargain of a deal at 5.5M. However, he will be due for a raise at the same Boeser will be if he signs a 4 year deal. I personally do believe Horvat took nearly a 10% discount. He could have gotten 6M and to be honest I wouldnt have minded.

 

I do believe if we do do the 4 year Boeser deal, we ask him to take a 10% discount in terms of AAV. I'm okay giving him bonus $ and make it so he gets paid in his first year , with a high cap in year 4 so he gets the option of potentially 8 Million in his new contract when the new deal comes into play. Boeser at an AAV of 6.5 Million would mean alot moving forward. 

 

The more cap space we have the bigger the chance of winning. Toronto may have the best top 4 in talent, but their defence sucks imo and they wont win a cup until they can acquire depth on D. They are lucky Johansson and Kapenen took cheap deals. 

 

Hughes and Pettersson are on ELC for 2 more years and by then Sutter and Ericksson's contracts will hopefully be gone and Edler's contract comes to an end. While it does make it easier for us it also scares me we may offer too much $ to those 2. We do have potentially Poldkozin who may in his own terms be a star player. Luckily for us he fits into our cap structure and will be on an ELC when the 2 stars are being resigned. 

 

Pettersson depending if he can improve on his last years PPG and stay healthy may mean he one day makes 9M + . I hope Benning resigns him and Hughes who also could one day make 6M + to good discounted deals. This team seems to have an amazing attitude and I hope they all put the team before themselves.

 

Now my final thing to say, whether you hate or love Benning we need him to stay on our team in a drafting role atleast. The one thing we can benefit on is having tons of young players who can step into the team and make an impact. For example lets say we have a star player who is due for a resign. We may not be able to afford them moving forward , so we trade them for picks/ prospects. However, we wont have to stress on the future if we have studs coming in ready to take minutes from other star players (Hope this makes sense). For example Toronto trading Kadri due to the talent ready to step into his role for a Defender they needed so badly.

 

Boeser at 6.5 for 4 years, or 7 x 7 years is a win

Horvat come 2023 could ask for a pay day, assuming the cap increases on average of 2M a season.

What is stopping Pettersson / Hughes asking for a bridge deal of 2 years just to see where the cap is when the new TV deal kicks in.

[Elias Pettersson]

We have a Capologist.  Benning talks to him all the time.  They plan 2-3 years down the road.  I don't see any major cap issues with this team for a very long time.  We have lots of young guys who will step into the lineup on ELC's over the next few years due to Benning's great drafting.  That's what is going to save us over other teams.

[captainhorvat]

[Jester13]

I think we'll be fine to lock up our core over time. Big contracts come off eventually- Loui, Sutter, Beagle, Edler, Marky - and all we need to do is lock up around 5 guys. The rest are support players that we'll develop from seed, and as they become too expensive, some of them, we trade them for future assets to have a continuously restocked cupboard of prospects on elcs. 

 

Now, I do believe, however, that Brock's contract is an important one to try and set a precedent that isn't like Toronto. Keep him in line with a reasonable deal and have a team that wants to win multiple cups rather than handcuffing the team for their own financial gain of 1 to 2 to 3 mill per year extra. Horvat signed a great deal and set the bar for our team. I hope Brock will fall in line close'ish to him, and so does Petey and Hughes one day. I'm not saying they have to sign for well-below market value, just something that isn't outrageous, and far away from a Nylander situation, which now has turned into a Marner situation. Jim needs to hit Brock's out of the park. I have complete trust in him that he will. No distractions going into camp with Brock holding out. Lock him up and let's win some cups, baby.

[smithers joe]

i look at the team in 3 years, when petey and quinn’s contracts are up.

ferland  3.5   pettersson ?   boeser ?

miller  5.250  horvat  5.5  podkolzin elc

hoglander elc  gaudette ?  lind ?

roussel  3  beagle  3  virtanen ?

                 madden elc

hughes ?    myers  6

juolevi ?      woo ?

 

demko ?  dipietro ? 

 

imo eriksson gets moved or bought out before his contract is up. 

lots of things can happen by then and probably will, but numbers filled in to ? on each player will give us an idea of cap issues. 4th year, beagle and roussel’s contracts will be finished. imo, canuck management have all this figured out.

[BrockBoester]

[Gollumpus]

17 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We have a Capologist.  Benning talks to him all the time.  They plan 2-3 years down the road.  I don't see any major cap issues with this team for a very long time.  We have lots of young guys who will step into the lineup on ELC's over the next few years due to Benning's great drafting.  That's what is going to save us over other teams.

Found this on the interwebz. It seems to have been put out just today.

 

                                             regards,  G.

[Chris12345]

I don't  see it.

 

Edler

Tanev

Loui

Loui

Spooner

Beagle

Rous

 

All coming off.

 

I mean let's get real. It's an $80M payroll to manage. EASY as pie.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

On 8/22/2019 at 11:21 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

We have a Capologist.  Benning talks to him all the time. 

Ummm, we had a capologist (Gilman) - until Benning fired him.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Ummm, we had a capologist (Gilman) - until Benning fired him.

And he deserved to be fired - resulted in a team burdened with clauses right through and including third line and second pairing defenseman - plus the ridiculous Luongo contract.   Whomever Benning has now hopefully will suffice.  As far as the OP this is a thread worthy discussion - more so in a year or two but what happens before then matters a lot. 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

I just looked it up (I never trust people on this board to tell the truth), and CapFriendly says the only D-men from the season after Gilman was fired who had NTCs were Hamhuis and Edler.  Not really kneecapping the team. 

 

The forwards with NTCs, NMCs or MNTCs were the Sedins, Miller, Burrows, Vrbata, Hansen and Higgins.  You can't argue with 3 of those 7 (4 if you include Burrows) - and one of the other contracts was only a 2-year contract (Vrbata), so you can't really argue with that either.  That only leaves Higgins and Hansen.  Hansen signed for $2.5m for 4 years - and spent quite a bit of time on the top line after signing.  So, you can't really argue with that one, as he was a huge bargain for the first half of his contract.  Higgins was also $2.5m for 4 years - and also played great for half the contract.

 

So, ultimately, you are saying that Gilman was terrible and deserved to be fired for four years at $2.5m ($10m total).  Well, let me just point out the $6m Benning is paying Loui every year for 6 years.  That's wasting $36m vs. $10m for Gilman.  And, that's just one of Benning's terrible contracts!  

 

Luongo's contract was terrible - but don't forget that Luongo didn't want to play here and forced us to pay him through the nose, and absolutely everybody on this board loved him and wanted him signed long-term.  We also had to name him Captain, just to stroke his ego and get him to stay when his contract was up the next year.  This reeks of Aquaman and Gillis, not Gilman.

 

Also, allow me to point out the Leafs (where Gilman works now) - a team chock-full of top-notch players - and they have the cap-space to sign two $11m players (with another one possibly coming).  Of our top-three players, Petey is on an entry-level contract, Boeser is coming off his - and Horvat isn't at the same level as Matthews/Marner/Tavares - yet we're in cap trouble!  How can we be in cap-trouble with our top-3 players being paid peanuts - and a team behind them that's been one of the worst in the NHL for years??? 

 

Right, because Benning fired our capologist... 

Edited August 26, 2019 by bloodycanuckleheads

[Gurn]

nvm

Edited August 26, 2019 by gurn

[Cup2022]

48 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

I just looked it up (I never trust people on this board to tell the truth), and CapFriendly says the only D-men from the season after Gilman was fired who had NTCs were Hamhuis and Edler.  Not really kneecapping the team. 

 

The forwards with NTCs, NMCs or MNTCs were the Sedins, Miller, Burrows, Vrbata, Hansen and Higgins.  You can't argue with 3 of those 7 (4 if you include Burrows) - and one of the other contracts was only a 2-year contract (Vrbata), so you can't really argue with that either.  That only leaves Higgins and Hansen.  Hansen signed for $2.5m for 4 years - and spent quite a bit of time on the top line after signing.  So, you can't really argue with that one, as he was a huge bargain for the first half of his contract.  Higgins was also $2.5m for 4 years - and also played great for half the contract.

 

So, ultimately, you are saying that Gilman was terrible and deserved to be fired for four years at $2.5m ($10m total).  Well, let me just point out the $6m Benning is paying Loui every year for 6 years.  That's wasting $36m vs. $10m for Gilman.  And, that's just one of Benning's terrible contracts!  

 

Luongo's contract was terrible - but don't forget that Luongo didn't want to play here and forced us to pay him through the nose, and absolutely everybody on this board loved him and wanted him signed long-term.  We also had to name him Captain, just to stroke his ego and get him to stay when his contract was up the next year.  This reeks of Aquaman and Gillis, not Gilman.

 

Also, allow me to point out the Leafs (where Gilman works now) - a team chock-full of top-notch players - and they have the cap-space to sign two $11m players (with another one possibly coming).  Of our top-three players, Petey is on an entry-level contract, Boeser is coming off his - and Horvat isn't at the same level as Matthews/Marner/Tavares - yet we're in cap trouble!  How can we be in cap-trouble with our top-3 players being paid peanuts - and a team behind them that's been one of the worst in the NHL for years??? 

 

Right, because Benning fired our capologist... 

Take a look at the crap pile the rest of leafs roster is how many players at the million and under club 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

12 minutes ago, Cup2022 said:

Take a look at the crap pile the rest of leafs roster is how many players at the million and under club 

If having a top-heavy roster is so bad and a bottom-heavy one so good, how come we sucked royally for the last few years, while the Leafs (not to mention Tampa) were a hell of a lot better?  It's because you win with stars, not 3rd and 4th liners (something that Benning is only slowly learning).  We had another GM who absolutely adored the bottom-half of his roster (Nonis), and he was one of the worst GMs we ever had.

 

Go look up Wins Above Replacement.  A top star will provide you with more wins than you can buy with the money you save by not having a top star.  Far more.  Therefore, it's better to spend money at the top of your roster than at the bottom.  Again, having us throw massive amounts of money at the bottom of our roster only led to us being the worst team in the league (over several years) recently.

[Cup2022]

2 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

If having a top-heavy roster is so bad and a bottom-heavy one so good, how come we sucked royally for the last few years, while the Leafs (not to mention Tampa) were a hell of a lot better?  It's because you win with stars, not 3rd and 4th liners (something that Benning is only slowly learning).  We had another GM who absolutely adored the bottom-half of his roster (Nonis), and he was one of the worst GMs we ever had.

 

Go look up Wins Above Replacement.  A top star will provide you with more wins than you can buy with the money you save by not having a top star.  Far more.  Therefore, it's better to spend money at the top of your roster than at the bottom.  Again, having us throw massive amounts of money at the bottom of our roster only led to us being the worst team in the league (over several years) recently.

Actually the leafs roster is this way for next season so they could fit in Marner they had there money spread out threw there lineup more last year they have 17 players signed for under a million for next season I for one don't think they will win a cup doing it wouldn't be shocked if my Canucks had more points than them next year. Better hope they don't get an injury to there starting goalie lol.

[aGENT]

I don't even know where to begin with the nonsense begin posted in here... 

 

We were a bad team because we've been rebuilding, not because we 'overpaid' some solid bottom 6 forwards.

[Cup2022]

Just now, aGENT said:

I don't even know where to begin with the nonsense begin posted in here... 

 

We were a bad team because we've been rebuilding, not because we 'overpaid' some solid bottom 6 forwards.

Ty

[Cup2022]

14 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

If having a top-heavy roster is so bad and a bottom-heavy one so good, how come we sucked royally for the last few years, while the Leafs (not to mention Tampa) were a hell of a lot better?  It's because you win with stars, not 3rd and 4th liners (something that Benning is only slowly learning).  We had another GM who absolutely adored the bottom-half of his roster (Nonis), and he was one of the worst GMs we ever had.

 

Go look up Wins Above Replacement.  A top star will provide you with more wins than you can buy with the money you save by not having a top star.  Far more.  Therefore, it's better to spend money at the top of your roster than at the bottom.  Again, having us throw massive amounts of money at the bottom of our roster only led to us being the worst team in the league (over several years) recently.

Yup McDavid on Oilers really proves your point

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Ummm, we had a capologist (Gilman) - until Benning fired him.

Ummm, Benning hired another one...

 

 

[TheRussianRocket1994]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:35 PM, PunjabiCanucks said:

Boeser's contract is rumored at 7 Million , while I do seem its in the range of fair I personally dont like the deal as its short term and he will be resigned when the new TV deal comes into play. However it is nice as he will remain an RFA. I do believe tho we must avoid giving him 8.5m+ in his last year as it may handicap us come time.

 

Now besides the info stated above that we all know. We may fall into the same hole most teams find themselves of not being to able to sign their star players/ acquire good depth. Horvat imo took a bargain of a deal at 5.5M. However, he will be due for a raise at the same Boeser will be if he signs a 4 year deal. I personally do believe Horvat took nearly a 10% discount. He could have gotten 6M and to be honest I wouldnt have minded.

 

I do believe if we do do the 4 year Boeser deal, we ask him to take a 10% discount in terms of AAV. I'm okay giving him bonus $ and make it so he gets paid in his first year , with a high cap in year 4 so he gets the option of potentially 8 Million in his new contract when the new deal comes into play. Boeser at an AAV of 6.5 Million would mean alot moving forward. 

 

The more cap space we have the bigger the chance of winning. Toronto may have the best top 4 in talent, but their defence sucks imo and they wont win a cup until they can acquire depth on D. They are lucky Johansson and Kapenen took cheap deals. 

 

Hughes and Pettersson are on ELC for 2 more years and by then Sutter and Ericksson's contracts will hopefully be gone and Edler's contract comes to an end. While it does make it easier for us it also scares me we may offer too much $ to those 2. We do have potentially Poldkozin who may in his own terms be a star player. Luckily for us he fits into our cap structure and will be on an ELC when the 2 stars are being resigned. 

 

Pettersson depending if he can improve on his last years PPG and stay healthy may mean he one day makes 9M + . I hope Benning resigns him and Hughes who also could one day make 6M + to good discounted deals. This team seems to have an amazing attitude and I hope they all put the team before themselves.

 

Now my final thing to say, whether you hate or love Benning we need him to stay on our team in a drafting role atleast. The one thing we can benefit on is having tons of young players who can step into the team and make an impact. For example lets say we have a star player who is due for a resign. We may not be able to afford them moving forward , so we trade them for picks/ prospects. However, we wont have to stress on the future if we have studs coming in ready to take minutes from other star players (Hope this makes sense). For example Toronto trading Kadri due to the talent ready to step into his role for a Defender they needed so badly.

 

Boeser at 6.5 for 4 years, or 7 x 7 years is a win

Horvat come 2023 could ask for a pay day, assuming the cap increases on average of 2M a season.

What is stopping Pettersson / Hughes asking for a bridge deal of 2 years just to see where the cap is when the new TV deal kicks in.

Why do so many people post without educating themselves first?! They have a capologist and they have a short term / long term plan re: the cap! He even said this much on the interview he just did on 1040. How about some people start realizing he’s the GM...and just maybe he knows what the f he’s doing!! Maybe that’s why he’s an NHL GM and you / others are not!

Edited August 26, 2019 by IRR