[Official] 2019 Training Camp Thread

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You weren't watching close enough then, the Sutter can't produce narrative is a lazy myth wadr 

Didn’t say he couldn’t produce but he’s much more effective as a shutdown guy.

 

You want a third line that can be a legit offensive threat, you don’t put a shutdown center there. That’s my opinion anyways.

 

I like Gaudette being groomed in that role. Beagle and Sutter can share the tough defensive zone face offs.

[VforVasili]

17 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

I would think if they do that the 4th line will get a lot more minutes than the supposed 3rd line. We need those shutdown guys to play and create some room. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to have more even ice time between the lines. 

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You weren't watching close enough then, the Sutter can't produce narrative is a lazy myth wadr 

Sutter has always scored more than he assisted.  135-125-260 career.  His ppg is 0.38 which is fine for the 3rd line especially in a match up role.  I'd say he was good for 15-20 goals in a full season which is nothing to sneeze at.  It's his play making for me which is why I like Baer on his line.

 

I still consider him to be trade bait as the season wears on.  He was a useful piece except that he had 2 seasons with the Canucks where he was injured a lot.  I really hope he is over his sports hernia / groin issues.  No wonder he lost a step last year.

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Didn’t say he couldn’t produce but he’s much more effective as a shutdown guy.

 

You want a third line that can be a legit offensive threat, you don’t put a shutdown center there. That’s my opinion anyways.

 

I like Gaudette being groomed in that role. Beagle and Sutter can share the tough defensive zone face offs.

Wadr the main reason he was a shutdown guy was until Beagle we literally had no one else. He has produce in the past and they were our 3rd scoring line with him and Dorsett until Dorsett had to retire. 

 

Dorsett was on pace for a career high shattering 28 goals. 

[DeNiro]

Just now, VforVirtanen said:

I would think if they do that the 4th line will get a lot more minutes than the supposed 3rd line. We need those shutdown guys to play and create some room. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to have more even ice time between the lines. 

Definitely. 

 

Having that option would allow different strategies depending on who we’re playing.

 

If we’re playing teams that require us to play a shutdown line we could, or If its a more open game we can lean on Gaudettes line for offence.

[Kootenay Gold]

12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Agree, Sutter was brought in as a match up guy to shelter developing kids.  The team has moved along.  The talent level is such that they have the players to have 3 offensive lines now and Sutter is the odd man out.  They could make Sutter a 4C 5 v 5 who also plays the PK because face it, he is a better player than Beagle.

 

Either way, Sutter is the square peg here.  

I think Sutter sticks for now but with the Miller signing and Gaudette's improved play he is no longer a lock. I like the idea of having Gaudette learn to play the wing as it gives the team and him more value going forward. Having options with both Miller and Gaudette being able to play both center and wing would make Sutter increasingly expendable.

[EdgarM]

26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

The third line is probably more of a checker line that is equipped to occasionally help with the scoring. Sutter fits that bill more then Baert. Baert is pure offense and would need to prove himself worthy of the top 6. He is a tweener in that he doesn't provide enough physical/toughness or offense to warrant a spot in the top 6. His lack of physicality/toughness also prevents him from being in the bottom 6. 

Sutter has offense and can produce when healthy. The last couple of years he has been impeded by injury. 

I see the third line players as the question marks in the entire line up. If players are going to be moved around, it will be from this line. The only other variable will be injuries and the ability to fill spots with the tweeners.

[canuck73_3]

Just now, Crabcakes said:

Sutter has always scored more than he assisted.  135-125-260 career.  His ppg is 0.38 which is fine for the 3rd line especially in a match up role.  I'd say he was good for 15-20 goals in a full season which is nothing to sneeze at.  It's his play making for me which is why I like Baer on his line.

 

I still consider him to be trade bait as the season wears on.  He was a useful piece except that he had 2 seasons with the Canucks where he was injured a lot.  I really hope he is over his sports hernia / groin issues.  No wonder he lost a step last year.

If Gaudette improves at the faceoff role moving Sutter is the most logical thing to explore until then he is really being discredited for his play making, outside the chemistry he had with Dorsett, he hasn't really played much with consistent scorers.

 

Add in injuries which affects both his consistency and chemistry it makes his playmaking look much worse than it actually is.

 

When healthy and able to stay consistent his goals and assists are actually pretty even most years. 

 

21-19

14-15

17-15

11-8 (lockout year)

13-13

21-12 (one year he produce where goal totals were much higher)

17-17

11-15

 

Obviously no one is expecting him to be a 40+ point guy but he is a very solid 30-35 point guy that can play shutdown role when needed. And his playmaking is grossly underrated on here. 

 

 

 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

The third line is probably more of a checker line that is equipped to occasionally help with the scoring. Sutter fits that bill more then Baert. Baert is pure offense and would need to prove himself worthy of the top 6. He is a tweener in that he doesn't provide enough physical/toughness or offense to warrant a spot in the top 6. His lack of physicality/toughness also prevents him from being in the bottom 6. 

Sutter has offense and can produce when healthy. The last couple of years he has been impeded by injury. 

I see the third line players as the question marks in the entire line up. If players are going to be moved around, it will be from this line. The only other variable will be injuries and the ability to fill spots with the tweeners.

From everything I’ve heard they don’t want the traditional shutdown physical third line though. They need offensive guys there to help take the load off the top two lines.

 

Baerstchi has averaged 16 goals over three seasons before last season (where he was on pace for 28). They need those goals, otherwise they’re not a playoff team. If he can stay healthy that’s 15-20 goals they’re not likely to get from other guys.

 

 

 

[mll]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

The top-2 lines have been set all summer.

 

Baertschi is the one that fits the least among the remaining of Virtanen, Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Leivo, Eriksson, Schaller, Roussel.  

Early in Calgary Ralph Krueger described his game as cheeky because he likes to do what you don't expect him to do - a lot of short passing plays to create deception and that's not really the game of the others.  

 

Baertschi gets his goals from right around the net - he doesn't battle for position but instead uses his smarts to know when to move in.  He is at his best when he plays with someone who sees those same holes in coverage so that he moves in as the puck moves in.  That's not really the guys that are left.   

 

After the Calgary trade he was asked to compare systems when in Utica.  He talked about how under Hartley it was a lot about the forecheck.  He then talked about how in Utica they were finding ways to enter the zone with possession instead of chipping it in and saying that's more his game.  Canucks were 2nd in dump-in rates by mid-February last season.  Benning this summer says they want to go on the forecheck and then bring the puck to the net.  

 

I don't know if he would get claimed if he goes on waivers - two years left and his injury history.  It just feels like he doesn't fit.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by mll

[xereau]

 

[-DLC-]

5 minutes ago, xereau said:

 

Means nothing if we don't know the "inside source".  Could be his uncle's bartender.

[-DLC-]

Quote

Take this with a grain of salt and don’t shoot the messenger. It’s a rumour I’m hearing from someone....so we’ll see. Hopefully it Checks out!

 

[Gurn]

19 minutes ago, xereau said:

 

If "they" heard about it last week, and announce it now is it really "breaking" news?

[Squamfan]

14 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

lol where did you find this?

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

lol where did you find this?

In thin air?  

 

(In the comments)

[86Viking]

Bo is the captain, the team is just dragging the announcement out till openind day or home openener. Just plain silly imo, maybe I am old school but my mentality is to have a captain every single season. The players all know who the leaders are, but when you have A's only then it is a rotating door of "A" player going to talk to refs. Having a defined Captain is just part of an NHL team imo. I know teams dont do that now, but it should just be done imo.

 

As for Sutter not suiting the 3rd line role. I am all for seeing this 3rd line to start the year

 

Sven Gaud Sutter

 

It can shelter Gaud in the faceoff dot if he is haivng a tough night by slotting Sutter in. When Roussel returns if Gaud is holding his own he can take over for Sutter on the wing then the Canucks can line the most useless overpaid 4th line in NHL history

 

LE 6m Beagle 3m Sutter 4.2m = 13.2m for a but of vets that can pk...

[RakuRaku]

30 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Means nothing if we don't know the "inside source".  Could be his uncle's bartender.

Nah... gotta be the usual! Someone's girlfriend's half brother's neighbour's cousin's friend's uncle.... 

 

Worst kept secret anyway... we are all expecting this to happen or it would be bucket of ice water on Bo's face!

[Kanukfanatic]

12 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I think you need to pay attention to the games a little closer to really see what I'm talking about, but don't worry you'll get to see it this year it will happen a lot I saw it in the pre season game already, but of course since they won and scored a bunch no one looks at those little things, they only look at those things when it's not going right or not scoring goals unfortunately.

 

Last year I'm sure if I dig it up in my history I can find it, but I believe it was the first couple games of the year or even the first game of the year, I said this whole D needed to be revamped because it was really weak the D was garbage and I believe we saw that last year lol, so comparing Edler to how bad the D last year was is not really saying much, what was it 3-4 years ago Edler led the league in minus.

 

I've been on Edlers case since about 2012-13, that's when I started noticing him not getting any better when he should of been especially at the age he was at in his prime years. I do strongly believe his back injury has really slowed him down over the years, but now with him getting even older he isn't getting better anymore he's just going to continue to slow down more and imo that's even more scarier since he already can't catch guys after he loses it at the offensive blue line. 

The bolded - Obviously lol.

 

Pretty much everyone here saw the game the PP was on fire and Edler was part of that.  But yeah...you are right....he is no good.  Haha...come on...

 

[Stelar]

51 minutes ago, mll said:

The top-2 lines have been set all summer.

 

Baertschi is the one that fits the least among the remaining of Virtanen, Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Leivo, Eriksson, Schaller, Roussel.  

Early in Calgary Ralph Krueger described his game as cheeky because he likes to do what you don't expect him to do - a lot of short passing plays to create deception and that's not really the game of the others.  

 

Baertschi gets his goals from right around the net - he doesn't battle for position but instead uses his smarts to know when to move in.  He is at his best when he plays with someone who sees those same holes in coverage so that he moves in as the puck moves in.  That's not really the guys that are left.   

 

After the Calgary trade he was asked to compare systems when in Utica.  He talked about how under Hartley it was a lot about the forecheck.  He then talked about how in Utica they were finding ways to enter the zone with possession instead of chipping it in and saying that's more his game.  Canucks were 2nd in dump-in rates by mid-February last season.  Benning this summer says they want to go on the forecheck and then bring the puck to the net.  

 

I don't know if he would get claimed if he goes on waivers - two years left and his injury history.  It just feels like he doesn't fit.

 

?