Sign in to follow this  
-Vintage Canuck-

[Official] 2019 Training Camp Thread

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, gameburn said:

He looked good with Gaudette -- and continues to look good with Horvat -- I guess for me the question is whether he has more to contribute in the long run than Pearson or the likes of Leivo.  In the last few years he has done enough to make a case.  But last year Pearson put up some points and seemed to grow as a player, which has to be bad for Baertschi.  1st line: EP40, Boes, Ferland;  then a second line of: Horvat, Miller (his new give and go guy for sure) and Pearson?;

then a 3rd line of: Gaudette, Virtanen, Sutter;  and the 4th line of Beagle, Motte (Roussel), Leivo, with Schaller as the extra guy until he is replaced by Roussel, who would take over from Motte on the fourth line (or Virtanen or Sutter on 3rd line). 

 

It certainly makes no sense to use Baertschi on the 4th line, so the question is really whether Virtanen or Sutter get bumped downwards to the 4th to make room for Baertschi to play along with Gaudette (who obviously had some chemistry with Gaudette.)  I'd rather have Baertschi with Gaudette for scoring reasons, but there could be very good reasons to keep Sutter as the real faceoff guy or to keep Virtanen there because of his physical presence and 15 plus goals.

Baertchi is unfortunately stuck between a rock and a hard place. He does not provide enough offense as does Boes or Petey and he does not bring a combination of offense and physical presence such as Bo,Ferlund,Miller or Pearson. 

He is similar to Goldy in that they do not provide enough of either. That is Virt's concern as well. He can produce more offense and more physical presence but is kind of in between. He does produce more defense/physicality then Baert or Goldy though, so I see him as a step above these two.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

Also...it's ok to support a contract re-signing but still be critical at times on a game by game basis.   It's not got to be one or the other.

 

D men are hard to find....someone who comes with experience and a bit of size that he uses in a physical way (at times, not always) aren't usually just thrown out with the bathwater.  You have to replace them and not many give them up.

 

Edler likes to shoot....when we were trying to get the tying goal last game, we saw that.  In order to score you need to .... shoot the puck.  So him not wanting to pass while, at times, was glaring is also ok in that he wants to try to score.  We needed more scoring.

 

Its not that Edler cant play on the PP ; his shot is not bad its certainly better than Quinn Hughes or Stecher, its his inability to pass on the back hand and the fact he has one goal on the power play last year. Myers has a better shot, Hughes can pass better on both the forehand and back hand.

I am glad Edler is back even though he frustrated me at times. His physical presence is needed for sure.I just like the fact we have other options on the power play other than just trotting our Edler as our only option

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gaudette has certainly earned a spot on the roster.  Benning always says that if a young player earns a spot, he will make room.  What some people are forgetting is that it can take several months to make room.  I think that Gaudette making the team (since he isn't waiver eligible) is going to require a trade.

 

The easy choices remaining imo are to waive Goldobin and Schaller.  Next, they could either waive Biega or Fantenberg.  If Gaudette is sent down, that is all they have to do.

 

To have Gaudette play, they would have to waive Motte who has already shown that he is an effective and speedy 4th line winger.  Eriksson could go too but like people have said, take away the salary and you've got the 6th highest point getter from last year, good on the pk and does all the little things (I kid but Higgins was that guy at the end too)

 

The other candidates to move to make room for Gaudette would require a trade.  Virtanen, Sutter, Beagle, Baertschi, Leivo.....obviously as we go down the list, we're getting into guys who are role players but who we would rather keep on the team.

 

When Roussel gets healthy and is ready to play again in Dec or Jan, another player drops off the list too

Edited by Crabcakes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Gaudette has certainly earned a spot on the roster.  Benning always says that if a young player earns a spot, he will make room.  What some people are forgetting is that it can take several months to make room.  I think that Gaudette making the team (since he isn't waiver eligible) is going to require a trade.

 

The easy choices remaining imo are to waive Goldobin and Schaller.  Next, they could either waive Biega or Fantenberg.  If Gaudette is sent down, that is all they have to do.

 

To have Gaudette play, they would have to waive Motte who has already shown that he is an effective and speedy 4th line winger.

 

The other candidates to move to make room for Gaudette would require a trade.  Virtanen, Sutter, Beagle, Baertschi, Leivo.....obviously as we go down the list, we're getting into guys who are role players but who we would rather keep on the team.

 

When Roussel gets healthy and is ready to play again in Dec or Jan, another player drops off the list too

This is all true its just that some of the options are not likely due to contracts being hard to unload, declining play, health issues etc

Ideally we would trade Eriksson, that solves all of our cap issues and does not take away very much from the team. Not likely to happen due to overpaid contract.

Sutter could also be traded, not likely many teams will take a risk on a 30 yr old who cant stay healthy, not likely to happen

Waiving Schaller, this will happen as he isnt likely to be picked up unless a team really wants a high paid fourth line player.

Goldobin waived, most likely picked up by Ottawa that would get first pick and needs some skill up front.I doubt NG gets through all 30 other teams on the wire. Good luck elsewhere.

Beagle Baertschi and Leivo bring something to the table I agree we will want to keep them at least as trade pieces

Virtanen is still developing and as a power forward is ahead of where Bertuzzi was at his age. not time to pull the plug on him yet.

Its a good thing to have the competition for spots as this will make for a better team.

Gaudette will most likely end the season in Vancouver, its just who gets moved to make the room and when.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

Disagree about Sutter he has shown he can score and make plays, health as of late is really his only issue as it has affected his consistency.

Edited by canuck73_3
  • Like 1
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, canuck73_3 said:

Disagree about Sutter he has shown he can score and make plays, health as of late is really his only issue as it has effected his consistency.

Every time he was healthy (which wasn’t much) I didn’t see him really drive his line or make his wingers better.

 

If we want three scoring lines I don’t see having Sutter as our third line center making sense. I think that would just revert us back to having two offensive lines and two shutdown lines. Putting more pressure on Bo and Petey to produce.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Every time he was healthy (which wasn’t much) I didn’t see him really drive his line or make his wingers better.

 

If we want three scoring lines I don’t see having Sutter as our third line center making sense. I think that would just revert us back to having two offensive lines and two shutdown lines. Putting more pressure on Bo and Petey to produce.

You weren't watching close enough then, the Sutter can't produce narrative is a lazy myth wadr 

 

see his production with Dorsett, Dorsett was on pace to destroy his career high in goals scored and points with Sutter

Edited by canuck73_3
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

Agree, Sutter was brought in as a match up guy to shelter developing kids.  The team has moved along.  The talent level is such that they have the players to have 3 offensive lines now and Sutter is the odd man out.  They could make Sutter a 4C 5 v 5 who also plays the PK because face it, he is a better player than Beagle.

 

Either way, Sutter is the square peg here.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

This is all true its just that some of the options are not likely due to contracts being hard to unload, declining play, health issues etc

Ideally we would trade Eriksson, that solves all of our cap issues and does not take away very much from the team. Not likely to happen due to overpaid contract.

Sutter could also be traded, not likely many teams will take a risk on a 30 yr old who cant stay healthy, not likely to happen

Waiving Schaller, this will happen as he isnt likely to be picked up unless a team really wants a high paid fourth line player.

Goldobin waived, most likely picked up by Ottawa that would get first pick and needs some skill up front.I doubt NG gets through all 30 other teams on the wire. Good luck elsewhere.

Beagle Baertschi and Leivo bring something to the table I agree we will want to keep them at least as trade pieces

Virtanen is still developing and as a power forward is ahead of where Bertuzzi was at his age. not time to pull the plug on him yet.

Its a good thing to have the competition for spots as this will make for a better team.

Gaudette will most likely end the season in Vancouver, its just who gets moved to make the room and when.

 

 

 

Totally agree. Schaller is definitely the first to go and then probably Goldy. I do think that JB is trying to go the trade route too and just hasn't found the right one yet. Very good point about Virt, Bert never really started to produce until he was around 25 years old. Yes Gaud will make the team it just has to be worked out "when" and "how" that will happen.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You weren't watching close enough then, the Sutter can't produce narrative is a lazy myth wadr 

Didn’t say he couldn’t produce but he’s much more effective as a shutdown guy.

 

You want a third line that can be a legit offensive threat, you don’t put a shutdown center there. That’s my opinion anyways.

 

I like Gaudette being groomed in that role. Beagle and Sutter can share the tough defensive zone face offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

I would think if they do that the 4th line will get a lot more minutes than the supposed 3rd line. We need those shutdown guys to play and create some room. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to have more even ice time between the lines. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You weren't watching close enough then, the Sutter can't produce narrative is a lazy myth wadr 

Sutter has always scored more than he assisted.  135-125-260 career.  His ppg is 0.38 which is fine for the 3rd line especially in a match up role.  I'd say he was good for 15-20 goals in a full season which is nothing to sneeze at.  It's his play making for me which is why I like Baer on his line.

 

I still consider him to be trade bait as the season wears on.  He was a useful piece except that he had 2 seasons with the Canucks where he was injured a lot.  I really hope he is over his sports hernia / groin issues.  No wonder he lost a step last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Didn’t say he couldn’t produce but he’s much more effective as a shutdown guy.

 

You want a third line that can be a legit offensive threat, you don’t put a shutdown center there. That’s my opinion anyways.

 

I like Gaudette being groomed in that role. Beagle and Sutter can share the tough defensive zone face offs.

Wadr the main reason he was a shutdown guy was until Beagle we literally had no one else. He has produce in the past and they were our 3rd scoring line with him and Dorsett until Dorsett had to retire. 

 

Dorsett was on pace for a career high shattering 28 goals. 

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, VforVirtanen said:

I would think if they do that the 4th line will get a lot more minutes than the supposed 3rd line. We need those shutdown guys to play and create some room. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to have more even ice time between the lines. 

Definitely. 

 

Having that option would allow different strategies depending on who we’re playing.

 

If we’re playing teams that require us to play a shutdown line we could, or If its a more open game we can lean on Gaudettes line for offence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Agree, Sutter was brought in as a match up guy to shelter developing kids.  The team has moved along.  The talent level is such that they have the players to have 3 offensive lines now and Sutter is the odd man out.  They could make Sutter a 4C 5 v 5 who also plays the PK because face it, he is a better player than Beagle.

 

Either way, Sutter is the square peg here.  

I think Sutter sticks for now but with the Miller signing and Gaudette's improved play he is no longer a lock. I like the idea of having Gaudette learn to play the wing as it gives the team and him more value going forward. Having options with both Miller and Gaudette being able to play both center and wing would make Sutter increasingly expendable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they want three lines that can score, Baertschi brings more to the table than someone like Sutter or Virtanen.

 

If anything it’s Sutter that doesn’t really fit the third line the way they wanna build it. I think a combo of Baertschi, Gaudette, and Leivo or Virtanen would go a lot farther in creating three scoring lines.

 

That leaves us our 13 million dollar fourth line of Eriksson, Beagle, and Sutter!

The third line is probably more of a checker line that is equipped to occasionally help with the scoring. Sutter fits that bill more then Baert. Baert is pure offense and would need to prove himself worthy of the top 6. He is a tweener in that he doesn't provide enough physical/toughness or offense to warrant a spot in the top 6. His lack of physicality/toughness also prevents him from being in the bottom 6. 

Sutter has offense and can produce when healthy. The last couple of years he has been impeded by injury. 

I see the third line players as the question marks in the entire line up. If players are going to be moved around, it will be from this line. The only other variable will be injuries and the ability to fill spots with the tweeners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Crabcakes said:

Sutter has always scored more than he assisted.  135-125-260 career.  His ppg is 0.38 which is fine for the 3rd line especially in a match up role.  I'd say he was good for 15-20 goals in a full season which is nothing to sneeze at.  It's his play making for me which is why I like Baer on his line.

 

I still consider him to be trade bait as the season wears on.  He was a useful piece except that he had 2 seasons with the Canucks where he was injured a lot.  I really hope he is over his sports hernia / groin issues.  No wonder he lost a step last year.

If Gaudette improves at the faceoff role moving Sutter is the most logical thing to explore until then he is really being discredited for his play making, outside the chemistry he had with Dorsett, he hasn't really played much with consistent scorers.

 

Add in injuries which affects both his consistency and chemistry it makes his playmaking look much worse than it actually is.

 

When healthy and able to stay consistent his goals and assists are actually pretty even most years. 

 

21-19

14-15

17-15

11-8 (lockout year)

13-13

21-12 (one year he produce where goal totals were much higher)

17-17

11-15

 

Obviously no one is expecting him to be a 40+ point guy but he is a very solid 30-35 point guy that can play shutdown role when needed. And his playmaking is grossly underrated on here. 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.