[Signing] Hurricanes sign Jake Gardiner

[Alflives]

Just now, Chris12345 said:

Is Tree coming back?

I sure hope so.  JB keeps saying he wants Tryamkin back.  Next spring we will find out.  Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed. 

[Canuck Surfer]

19 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

His back is fully healed and healthy. 

 

Tyler Myers missed several months with hip injury couple of years ago. Boeser is coming off a very serious back injury. Doesn't seem like it's affecting them. Boeser wants 7 mill 4 yrs. Myers got 6 mill 5 yrs.  

 

And defensively he's pretty even with Myers. 

 

In WPG Myers had difficulty handling 1st pair time after injuries to Buff and Morrisey. Hes was pretty bad defensively. He was ok as 2nd pair. 

 

Considering we paid Myers 2 mill per year more and 1 year longer term this is a great signing by the Canes. 

 

 

 

I upvoted your earlier post just below.  Had a very similar post the page before.  And I agree, its a pretty darn good signing by Carolina.

 

But I believe there is a plenty of reason to debate this line of thinking that he is better value than Tyler Myers.  Its like comparing two football defensive players, when one is a safety, the other a coverage defensive back with pure speed.

 

Yes Gardiner's feau pas are overstated.  They were similar to problems Edler, Hamhuis & many players / teams have had over the years. There are so many left handed D, not so many right. Just the nature and maths of left / righty in society.Particularly two years ago for Gardiner.  The Leafs had no top pair RHD, period. And Rielly is better, so Gardiner played his off side. And against tough match ups on the top pair. Was then crucified for making mistakes. Just like Edler, and when he was really struggling Hamhuis, for Tortorella. When we had no RHD (Tanev injured) & Torts liked Garrison as our top LHD for his shot.  Edler lead the league in minus.  On your off side, you rush to the puck on your backhand to clear it, with your back to vision of open lanes. Its a turnover waiting to happen, unless you are fast enough to the puck you can clear it without forward pressure.

 

Many, Many, good D struggle with LHD on their off side! Its more an indictment of the Leafs having to play Gardiner in a position to which he was not suited.

 

I personally, for 5 plus years, had dreamed of a D like Gardiner. Who consistently beats checks at the blue line, to walk into passing lanes and create offensive havoc. Which is what he is very good at! And competent defensively, if you can shelter him from top match ups in the defensive zone. But here is the thing. He is well above average, but not world beating. This is Christian Ehrhoff 2.0, a fair comparison IMO. Gardiner is good, not an all world talent.

 

Gardiner is just above average.  Would he run our PP better than Edler, yes I think so!.  But he's not going take Edler's heavy defensive minutes.  And we just signed rookie Quinn Hughes, to do, more or less, exactly what Gardiner is good at. Hughes looks as he will be even more dynamic at it, single best skater in his draft. So there is not a natural role for him with us as a left handed D.  And as much as we like his offense? He was going to play his off side instead of Myers. And while I don't disagree Myers is not a top defensive D either? I like 6'8'' Myers defensively on his strong side.  Better than Gardiner on his off side any day of the week!

 

If Edler had moved on, Gardiner was the best LHD available.  He would have been high on my list. Once Edler was signed, not any priority.

 

I like the RHD in Myers. Who can still chip in 25 to 40 points by, Edler style, rotating the puck effectively as a passer. Smart enough to step into gaps where he fits to improve angles, and unleash a big shot. That he does it as a right handed D is rare. Which is why he got paid.  And gives us size, functional defensive play, and offense in a RHD. A much better fit.

 

20 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

He's not defensively bad as many people on cdc believe he is. He's a great skater and can usually recover with his speed if he makes a gaffe. 

 

Great signing by Donny Waddell. Gardiner is great on PP and will put up 40 + pts with first unit PP. 

 

Canes got a bargain and definetly improved their D. 

 

I'd take him at 4 mill any day. 

 

I don't  believe anyone leaves. They added to LD and became a better deeper team. They were set at RD. Now look real good at LD as well.  

 

 

 

Mentioning again, I Upvoted & agreed with this post.

[Me_]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Hughes can play right side too.  Tryamkin is natural on the right.  No room for Bulldog, unless it’s as the press box guy.  

The only way a player like Biega makes it on a Stanley Cup team, is late in the playoffs, as a an injury call-up.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Me_

[Chris12345]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I sure hope so.  JB keeps saying he wants Tryamkin back.  Next spring we will find out.  Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed. 

I hear you there but I wouldn't bet the farm.

[JM_]

7 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Hmm I don't read that as them being a pairing. That just sounds like he thinks those signings will be guys that can take minutes from those guys to lower their minutes. For example, Benn will eat up more of the PK minutes from Edler and Myers gives us a guy that can play top 4 minutes, so hopefully Tanev doesn't have to be relied on as much. I didn't expect Tanev to play with Benn anyway.

 

Not that it wouldn't work, but based on that tweet, I don't know if he projects Benn and Myers together. Not really Benning's decision to make anyway.

I think if you heard the radio interview it was more clear that this was a strong potential pairing candidate. I don't think he's giving Green a command either, it sounds like they talk a lot about potential lines and pairs.

 

But regardless, its nice to have enough depth to argue over possible pairings! its been a while 

[highwayman3]

2 hours ago, apollo said:

Love it.

 

Great idea to pair Benn and Myers. Both guys want to play here and left money on the table to do so.

 

And no doubt those two play with "truculence" lol

Myers doesn't play with truculence haha, you're in for a surprise if you think he does.  This Gardiner contract really shows what an awful contract the Myers is, as I've said from Day 1.  It's a shame as all the other off-season moves were quite good imo, and of course we just missed out on Subban and Barrie (far better targets).  

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, highwayman3 said:

Myers doesn't play with truculence haha, you're in for a surprise if you think he does.  This Gardiner contract really shows what an awful contract the Myers is, as I've said from Day 1.  It's a shame as all the other off-season moves were quite good imo, and of course we just missed out on Subban and Barrie (far better targets).  

Glad that such an expert on all things hockey is here to offer their deep insight into the Canucks offseason. 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, highwayman3 said:

Myers doesn't play with truculence haha, you're in for a surprise if you think he does.  This Gardiner contract really shows what an awful contract the Myers is, as I've said from Day 1.  It's a shame as all the other off-season moves were quite good imo, and of course we just missed out on Subban and Barrie (far better targets).  

Myers was free, and allowed us to trade for Miller.  Plus Subban is way overpaid, and overrated.  As for Barrie, yes he’d have been a good addition, but he would have cost assets.  We got Miller and Myers.  That’s fantastic!  

Gardiner has a bad back, and he’s a McSofty.  Teams shied from him for those two reasons, especially his back. 

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, highwayman3 said:

Myers doesn't play with truculence haha, you're in for a surprise if you think he does.  This Gardiner contract really shows what an awful contract the Myers is, as I've said from Day 1.  It's a shame as all the other off-season moves were quite good imo, and of course we just missed out on Subban and Barrie (far better targets).  

You’re cute.  Like this little fella.  

Edited September 8, 2019 by Alflives

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, highwayman3 said:

Myers doesn't play with truculence haha, you're in for a surprise if you think he does.  This Gardiner contract really shows what an awful contract the Myers is, as I've said from Day 1.  It's a shame as all the other off-season moves were quite good imo, and of course we just missed out on Subban and Barrie (far better targets).  

Your not in touch if you believe Gardiner is better or similar value  - although I’d agree this was a bargain signing for CAR - if he played on the right side he’d getting more and already gone to - there is 50% more L shot Ds then R ones in the league - thems the breaks.  Subban isn’t a good target at his cap hit - Barrie maybe ok hard to say - he won’t be getting the same point totals splitting PP time with OReilly either and at 5’10” he doesn’t bring much else to the table - we’ve already got one ourself in Hughes why get another? 

 

Edit: and if you like his other moves why not the one that addressed the weakest are of our team - RHD?  At a reasonable cap hit no less (7-8 was been thrown around at the time - or don’t you remember) he took less to come to Vancouver which is good news for us.  We have a giant on the right side - pushing out Biega.  That’s great news.   

Edited September 8, 2019 by IBatch

[DeNiro]

Funny thing is that if we had signed Gardiner to that 7x7 deal that TSN was throwing out there they would be praising Benning for the signing.

 

He was clearly not the number 1 free agent they were pumping him up to be.

[kloubek]

On 9/6/2019 at 6:02 PM, King Heffy said:

He can produce offense but there is zero place on a legit NHL d group for a defenseman who can't play defense.  You don't win playoff series with that guys who are that bad in their own end; it's simply unacceptable for an NHLer.

Sorry - I just don't agree. Gardiner is hardly a shutdown guy, but his metrics actually show him to be quite defensively reaponsible - all while putting up the points. I think it is asking a lot to expect significant points while not giving up at least some scoring chances as a result.

 

Yes, the media and fans have jumped on him for some pretty bad gaffs at key times and certainly nobody wants to see such play during critical games but he really isn't as bad as you think based on the numbers. For the few mistakes he does make, I feel his production goes a long way to make up for it and then some.

[Hairy Kneel]

We've got a offensive D man already in Hughes we don't need Gardiner for that. But we do need better shut down D, especially for the playoffs. And Myers is an upgrade that way.  Gardiner was left on the shelf so long for a reason, being soft in the playoffs hurt his value. Myers will help keep pucks out of the net more than Gardener.

[King Heffy]

12 hours ago, kloubek said:

Sorry - I just don't agree. Gardiner is hardly a shutdown guy, but his metrics actually show him to be quite defensively reaponsible - all while putting up the points. I think it is asking a lot to expect significant points while not giving up at least some scoring chances as a result.

 

Yes, the media and fans have jumped on him for some pretty bad gaffs at key times and certainly nobody wants to see such play during critical games but he really isn't as bad as you think based on the numbers. For the few mistakes he does make, I feel his production goes a long way to make up for it and then some.

Eh, I don't buy into any of those fancy stats; I've seen him play enough to know that the way he plays in his own end is simply unacceptable.  I don't think any amount of points can make up for a defenseman who simply can't play defense.  It's a lot more than a few points; Gardiner is a huge liability every time the puck crosses his own blue line.  Leafs fans weren't booing him because he was playing like he belonged in the NHL.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Eh, I don't buy into any of those fancy stats; I've seen him play enough to know that the way he plays in his own end is simply unacceptable.  I don't think any amount of points can make up for a defenseman who simply can't play defense.  It's a lot more than a few points; Gardiner is a huge liability every time the puck crosses his own blue line.  Leafs fans weren't booing him because he was playing like he belonged in the NHL.

Gardiner has always been super soft.  Now, with a bad back how’s he going to play?  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Eh, I don't buy into any of those fancy stats; I've seen him play enough to know that the way he plays in his own end is simply unacceptable.  I don't think any amount of points can make up for a defenseman who simply can't play defense.  It's a lot more than a few points; Gardiner is a huge liability every time the puck crosses his own blue line.  Leafs fans weren't booing him because he was playing like he belonged in the NHL.

You really watch that many leaf games?  Gardiner got a bad rep for his goat play in game seven and the fans never forgave him for it.   He’s TOs version of Edler to a degree they wanted more but it never came.   He’s not useless in his own end.   And the ice tilts the other way when he’s on it, scoring more then letting them in is the purpose of the game ... and PP points don’t count against plus minus which adds further value to him as a whole.   Elders plus minus over the years is actually been worse at times - both playing roles above their pay grade.   He’s a bargain at 4 million - and depending on his role could possibly outperform everyone on our left side - he’s not as good defensively as Myers that’s for sure - but he’s definitely proven he can play in the top four.   Goat and his back (too bad for him because he’s normally healthy) playing on the L side have reduced his value a lot more then his play has.  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Gardiner has always been super soft.  Now, with a bad back how’s he going to play?  

[WHL rocks]

22 hours ago, apollo said:

Love it.

 

Great idea to pair Benn and Myers. Both guys want to play here and left money on the table to do so.

 

And no doubt those two play with "truculence" lol

Ya you're in for a surprise Apollo.  Not a very pleasant one.

 

Myers plays soft. He's not a physical player.

 

Truculense and Myers have never met each other. Myers has no idea what truculence is. 

[JM_]

Just now, WHL rocks said:

Ya you're in for a surprise Apollo.  Not a very pleasant one.

 

Myers plays soft. He's not a physical player.

 

Truculense and Myers have never met each other. Myers has no idea what truculence is. 

thats true, he isn't a force like Chara. 

 

But when he wants to he can lay someone out. Not as often as you'd like but the ability is there. Hopefully he finds it for the playoffs. 

 

 

[WHL rocks]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats true, he isn't a force like Chara. 

 

But when he wants to he can lay someone out. Not as often as you'd like but the ability is there. Hopefully he finds it for the playoffs. 

 

 

Ya that's not being physical.

 

That's an illegal pick. A small soft guy can make that play. Myers is big and soft.

 

Penalty every time. Don't want him doing that often in a Canucks jersey. 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by WHL rocks