Vaping

[logic]

Vaping thc = harmless

vaping corn syrup and nicotine = come find me in 20 years 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

The new gateway drug

[falcon45ca]

There's a lot of factors that come into play, it's really hard to say one way or the other. 

 

How large an inhalation are folks taking off the vapes? Is there a difference from one juice to another, or one vape to another? One manufacturer to another, one flavour to another? How often do folks vape compared to how often they'd smoke tobacco? 

 

I will say that anyone who believes that vaping is benign and doesn't carry some health consequence is horribly naive. I also know more than a few folks who used vaping as a stepping to stone to quit smoking, and have quit vaping as well.

 

There is a positive and negative consequence to every action. Informed consent is what's needed.

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, 112 said:

Why are you sure vaping is causative of his respiratory issues?

 

Nobody considers vaping harmless; it's just common opinion that it's safer than cigarettes, which the literature suggests is likely the case.

I'm not sure...but doctors suspect it's linked and who am I to question them?   I have no idea or expertise, but it's just a bit of a warning "in case".  He had no prior respiratory conditions at all.

 

"Safer than cigarettes" - which can kill people and cause lung cancer so not sure that's a good measuring stick.  

 

I do get using vaping as a transition to getting away from cigarettes.  My guess is that many continue vaping rather than go through another bout of "quitting" something (which is tough).  I see so much vaping and I feel that some people do feel "it's safe" when it may not be.  "Nobody" is a pretty broad and sweeping statement.

 

Just worth exploring more, that's all.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

Put that shyte away! Realize there ARE two genders. Clean yer F***ing room. Exercise daily..blah x3

 

Yeah^That there is an old guy shouting at a cloud(post the meme, whatever). Can't believe 90% of what is considered "newsworthy". Tide pods, vaping..what's next?

 

It's Hellin'nahandbasket, & thank Gawd I'm in my 50's!

[Crabcakes]

To date, there have been 6 deaths in the US linked to vaping.  Here is a pretty good read from Sept 12

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/07/what-we-know-about-mysterious-vaping-linked-illnesses-deaths/

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Alot of my friends vape, as a replacement for cigarettes. Personally I grew up with my mom & grandparents smoking around me regularly & I absolutely hated it, always pushed them to quit. (Which my mom thankfully now has) 

 

For myself, it was my grandparents.  Both passed away early (in their mid 60s) of lung cancer (of which I suspect smoking played a contributing factor).  That was enough for me to stay clear of the stuff.  I wouldn't even go for these as a kid lol:

 

[CBH1926]

Stopped smoking back in 2006, luckily too old to be involved in this new fad.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

When cigarettes first came out they didn't even have a warning label.  No way they could cause lung disease or cancer.  That's what the cigarette companies told you.  50 years later and after people dropping dead all over the place we now know that cigarettes can kill you.  Vaping is the new thing.  I had a friend who told me his friend was vaping every day and now has lung problems which he never had before.  It's too early to say how dangerous vaping is but I will bet 20 years from now we will see lots of evidence that it is dangerous.  Vape at your own peril.  

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

@debluvscanucks

I'm gonna come read through this all again later...but even CEO(s) of large vaping companies are strongly recommending that not smokers should not start vaping - based on the near-epidemic spike in lung infection/disease, directly correlated to vaping. And if the company had a CEO, chances are its not a "cheap vape".

Edited September 15, 2019 by Drive-By Body Pierce

[Odd.]

He probably was using counterfeit products. 

[RWMc1]

1 hour ago, logic said:

Vaping thc = harmless

vaping corn syrup and nicotine = come find me in 20 years 

Some THC vaping products are in a Vitamin E oil base. That, apparently, has a long term negative affect on the lungs. The cells in the lungs get coated with the oil and causes them to stop functioning at their peak. That's still one of the theories being explored in some of the cases popping up lately.

[Master 112]

1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I've always been against these vaping things until more studies had been done, not saying smoking is any better because it's not, but it does seem these vapes are harming and killing people faster then cigarettes are in a short time frame, and that's very alarming.

It might be that nobody is reporting on cigarettes any longer without speaking in terms of generalized epidemiological statistics. We've already accepted that cigarettes cause cancer, heart disease, etc., and it doesn't alarm anyone when it's disclosed in the news that so-and-so Johnson fell ill with pneumonia and died after being a habitual smoker.

 

I'm no expert and not really going to bother looking into it, but afaik it's quite possible to develop cancers whose etiology is linked back to smoking within a shorter time-frame than we typically believe. The public has it in its conscience that the health complications linked to smoking arise maybe after 20 years of use; but there's with smoking--likewise with vaping as has been reported in the news lately--risk of developing relatively immediate adverse affects as a result of tobacco intake.

 

Is there direct quantitative research/scholarship comparing the risk of death or disease from smoking with that of vaping within, say, the first couple of years after first and continued use?

Edited September 15, 2019 by 112

[A.A.A]

2 hours ago, 112 said:

Why are you sure vaping is causative of his respiratory issues?

 

Nobody considers vaping harmless; it's just common opinion that it's safer than cigarettes, which the literature suggests is likely the case.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1912032

 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/e-cigarette-vapour-disables-key-immune-cells-in-the-lung-and-boosts-inflammation/

 

https://journal.copdfoundation.org/jcopdf/id/1243/Journal-ClubElectronic-Cigarettes-and-Vaping-as-a-Harm-Reduction-Alternative-Really

 

As a health care professional, I have seen the negative effects of smoking cigarettes... Unless you have an underlying condition, it'll take years for a typical person to develop a chronic lung condition.

 

However vaping seems to be a different beast. Young and otherwise relatively healthy people are developing acute inflammatory  lung conditions which are extremely difficult to treat and get on top of.

 

I think it's a misconception that vaping isnt as bad as smoking. We just don't have a full understanding of how it impacts the body. We are learning more every day, but I've told my loved ones to stay away from vaping until we know more.

 

 

 

[Master 112]

1 minute ago, Amaneey said:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1912032

 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/e-cigarette-vapour-disables-key-immune-cells-in-the-lung-and-boosts-inflammation/

 

https://journal.copdfoundation.org/jcopdf/id/1243/Journal-ClubElectronic-Cigarettes-and-Vaping-as-a-Harm-Reduction-Alternative-Really

 

As a health care professional, I have seen the negative effects of smoking cigarettes... Unless you have an underlying condition, it'll take years for a typical person to develop a chronic lung condition.

 

However vaping seems to be a different beast. Young and otherwise relatively healthy people are developing acute inflammatory  lung conditions which are extremely difficult to treat and get on top of.

 

I think it's a misconception that vaping isnt as bad as smoking. We just don't have a full understanding of how it impacts the body. We are learning more every day, but I've told my loved ones to stay away from vaping until we know more.

 

 

 

ok, maybe i'm wrong.

 

I'll take a look at your links when I'm home-

just wondering if any delve into statistical comparisons with strict tobacco use (or alternatively herb if comparing with thc cartriges, i guess) and strict nicotine vape?

[Lancaster]

I remember always hearing about it's "safe", "not unhealthy", "better than cigarettes", etc..... yet lots of the package indicates it contains stuff like mercury and other toxic chemicals.  

 

When people intake chemicals with substances they usually don't even know or don't care about... it's hard to feel sympathetic.  Whether it's drinking, smoking, drugs or vaping... there's always consequences.  

[HI5]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

For myself, it was my grandparents.  Both passed away early (in their mid 60s) of lung cancer (of which I suspect smoking played a contributing factor).  That was enough for me to stay clear of the stuff.  I wouldn't even go for these as a kid lol:

 

Remember these chocolate cigarettes?

[Tystick]

I'm sorry to read that, Deb.

I'm glad your cousins son is starting to improve.

 

I'm skeptical as to whether vaping regulated ejuice is what caused this problem.

Many of the cases in the US had a common denominator, they were all vaping THC street cartridges.

The cause of the hospitalizations seems to be Vitamin-E acetate, a thickener used in the cartridge. 

 

Keep us updated if you can.

[Sbriggs]

4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I have to admit, I don't really even understand vaping, but had a crash course this week.

 

These are personal updates from my cousin in relation to her son (in his thirties).  Because it's important to know what we're dealing with and, clearly, at this early stage with vaping, we don't.  Young people are really buying in to this habit and it's scary to think of how quickly and drastically things like this can hit.  It blindsided them...one minute he's healthy and the next....

 

He is still in hospital, and this is how it all went down since Sunday, when he wasn't able to breathe on his own and it was a life and death situation.

 

While I'm really reluctant to share something so personal, if it can open up a kid's eyes to what can happen, then it's worth it.  Just as we once saw smoking as something glamorous and cool, vaping seems to be following the same path.  People tend to think it's harmless but we have first hand experience that it's anything but!

 

We almost lost a family member and he's still not out of the woods.

 

Tread carefully with this stuff.  Or, better yet, avoid it completely.

Hope he feels better soon, I started vaping mildly in the evening instead of smoking a joint about 6 months ago but no more back to smoking pot for me

[A.A.A]

1 hour ago, 112 said:

ok, maybe i'm wrong.

 

I'll take a look at your links when I'm home-

just wondering if any delve into statistical comparisons with strict tobacco use (or alternatively herb if comparing with thc cartriges, i guess) and strict nicotine vape?

I think the research currently is very limited, but we are learning more every day.

 

One study I found did compare the effects of vaping on alveoli:

 

"They extracted  alveolar macrophages from lung tissue samples provided by eight non-smokers who had never had asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

A third of the cells were exposed to plain e-cigarette fluid, a third  to different strengths of the artificially vaped condensate with and without nicotine, and a third to nothing for 24 hours.

The results showed that the condensate was significantly more harmful to the cells than e-cigarette fluid and that these effects worsened as the ‘dose’ increased.

After 24 hours of exposure the total number of viable cells exposed to the vaped condensate was significantly reduced compared to the untreated cells, and condensate containing nicotine exaggerated this effect.

Exposure to the condensate increased cell death and boosted production of oxygen free radicals by a factor of 50, and it significantly increased the production of inflammatory chemicals–more so when the condensate contained nicotine."