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Snapshot85

Why the Jake Hate????

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I think we have beaten the Drum long enuff with the Hate or frustration. Jake is now producing, and getting better as time marches on. A majority of CDC Posters are obviously the McDonalds children " I want it and I want it right F$#@ing NOW".

PATIENCE grasshoppers ! Shotgun Jake is coming into his Own, Watch & Learn!

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There were a few gaffs last gain (turnovers at the blueline), but overall his compete level is better than before.

It's almost like as if JV competes each and every night, he will have better results?  Who would have thought, right?

I just hope Jake doesn't just take all the good results/goodwill from this past few weeks to sleepwalk the next little while.  

 

 

 

 

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On 9/19/2019 at 8:55 PM, Snapshot85 said:

So today I was listening to a popular canucks radio show. The 2 hosts suggested that jake virtanen is one of the 5 canucks being shopped right now. Their view is that if we get offered a second round pick to jump on it. 

 

Seriously that was their view.

 

Now this leads me to believe that us as a whole is sour on the kid. 

 

I like Jake I'll admit, but I'm not in the jake virtanen or bust camp.

 

But a second round pick is ridiculous... he is at least worth a first. In fact hes worth more than a first round pick. 

I will back this up with facts.

 

Forwards are drafted to put the puck in the net. 

Out of Jake's draft class 25 forwards were drafted in the first round. I'll use his draft class alone because they are apples to apples in age and development.

 

Of those 25 forwards drafted in the first round.... only 9 ... count it 9 scored more nhl goals than Jake in 18-19. 15 players found the back of the net less often.  This means hes well above 50% so better than a random first round pick. Also the goals scored and nhl success rate of the second rounders is weak at best.

Adding to Jake's value is.... a few truths... hes improved every year, hes top 3 fastest skaters in the nhl ( subjective I know) and he hits like a moose when he wants to. Hes on a cheap contract !

And to add to his value...he can help a team now... today!!

When he realizes that this is a job.. and hes not just a kid playing a game anymore... he will take it all a bit more serious  and it will all click.  

 

So to suggest hes worth a second round pick is ludacris. 

 

I know we all had super high expectations of him when he was picked..... maybe he hasnt lived up to our lofty expectations.... 

 

But a second round pick. 

Coming from hockey guys like that. 

 

Shows me ... we should all lighten up on jake a bit.

 

Let's see what he does in 19/20 before giving him away. 

 

Thanks all

 

The clowns on Team1040 are a f#^$ing joke. Their job is to say controversial things in order to boost ratings. If all they did all the time was praise the team no one would listen. Jeff Patterson is the absolute worst.  If EP40 scored the OT winner in Game 7 of the SCF Patterson would be on the radio the next day harping that the game should have never went to overtime because the Canucks should have found a way to win it in regulation.  His incessant bashing of the team and the individual players is the only way he knows how to.stay relevant. 

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On 9/19/2019 at 9:25 PM, Dixon Ward said:

I think it stems from the fact that every Canadian boy dreams of having what he has.  Speed, Skill, Size and was drafted 6th overall.  All of us have been willing to give him some leeway because of his youth.  This is now his 6th training camp and he can't even be bothered to show up in shape.  His effort is inconsistent at best and his offseason training has been inconsistent as well.  I think deep down we are all rooting for him but also don't like the fact that he has everything he needs except the effort.  I, and I believe others, find this hard to accept because if we could be in his spot and all we needed to do was give 100% effort all the time we would.  His honeymoon is over.  He needs to work harder and contribute all the time.

I think he is finally turning the corner. He is realizing he can be a game  changer with a few good plays and it is motivating him to work harder. Yes, he still has gaffs but overall I think hismplay has improved tremendously this season. Watch for him to be a consistent top 6 next year. 

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With Jakes' increase in productivity on the ice, he has now becoming more and more JBs' cause his cap hit is becoming more significant - I hope he earns that contract and stays hungry.  GCG !

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On 9/20/2019 at 8:25 AM, IBatch said:

It’s that chance that gives GMs and fans wet dreams .... maybe we get another Boeser or a Pastrnak....just as likely we get a Schroeder.   There’s a small risk not taking the trade too - what if JV has hit his ceiling now, we have other guys that could get the same production playing the same minutes - too many guys for the roster in fact - flipping JV now while he still has value to someone (I doubt anyone would pay that much anyways but just for the sake of conversation - first rounders are more coveted then they used to be as teams need guys on cheap contracts) is better then keeping him as a serviceable third liner (those guys aren’t hard to find) ...

 

In the end I want to see him play at least one more year - I’m in the camp that thinks there still is a modest to small possibility he breaks out - he’s good 5 x 5 for his assignments and his linemates -doubt Ferland or Pearson will or can do any better and look at their cost - and think he’d easily score 20 in the top six - maybe 25 even now that our top six is much better then it was two years ago.

Pat.  Pat on my back ha ha.  

 

That said I hope he keeps it up and this isn't  just a streak.   TGs tough love has to include the opportunity to get there - and he's showing he's getting there - don't want to see LE on the second line unless it's a match up thing ... at this point I'd be tempted to play JV on the top line and move BB down to give the second line a shot in the arm...at any rate his minutes need to move into the 15-16 minute range and out of the 12-14 range...averaging just over 12 or fourth line minutes is ridiculously low.   

 

When Leivo is back I hope TG doesn't disrupt JVs momentum...

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:15 AM, VforVirtanen said:

This is going to be Virtanen’s year. Some of you will be awfully embarrassed by the hate you are throwing Jake’s way when the wrecking ball starts to roll!

Just going to repost this from page 4 when nearly everyone was hating on Jake. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, VforVirtanen said:

Just going to repost this from page 4 when nearly everyone was hating on Jake. 

Except that you and everyone else has been saying that for several years and it failed to happen.. I don’t see folks pulling those posts out.  A lot of your posts seem to be getting all loud and mouthing off to folks when Jake has had a good game, and then getting very quiet for very long stretches when he is terrible.  You can’t have it both ways without just looking like an ass.

 

His play has earned the criticism thrown his way.
 

Even taking just this year, he had a terrible training camp where he was singled out again for not preparing like a professional, then he had a bad October and November before having a good December.... so one single month of good play so far.  A month that exactly coincided with him being put on a line with Roussel.
 

Most folks even down on him had him pegged as a 3rd liner, which is what he is right now.  Limited minutes and protected against lesser competition.  He is performing between Pearson and Leivo numbers... great for him, but not exactly lighting the world on fire as his comparables are cast offs from other teams.  His history has just reduced our expectations of him so significantly that it is easy for him to surpass it.

 

He has a long way to go before proving himself as a top 6 guy like everyone has been claiming for years.

Edited by Provost
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1 hour ago, Provost said:

then he had a bad October and November before having a good December.... so one single month of good play so far.  A month that exactly coincided with him being put on a line with Roussel.

He barely got any playing time until this month either. TG *finally* put him on the PP and what does he have, like 2 PPGs already in 4 games?

 

My take on the reasons for Jake's lack of work ethic at the  beginning of his career is that all through juniors and with the Hitmen he was so much bigger and faster than everybody else that he didn't have to put in a ton of effort because his natural abilities granted him success.  Now in the NHL playing with the best of the best with millions of dollars on the line it's a whole different ballgame and he's starting  to figure that out. He just needed a few years to grow up. Most guys are pretty immature until they reach 25 to 28 or so. 

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3 hours ago, Provost said:

Except that you and everyone else has been saying that for several years and it failed to happen.. I don’t see folks pulling those posts out.  A lot of your posts seem to be getting all loud and mouthing off to folks when Jake has had a good game, and then getting very quiet for very long stretches when he is terrible.  You can’t have it both ways without just looking like an ass.

 

His play has earned the criticism thrown his way.
 

Even taking just this year, he had a terrible training camp where he was singled out again for not preparing like a professional, then he had a bad October and November before having a good December.... so one single month of good play so far.  A month that exactly coincided with him being put on a line with Roussel.
 

Most folks even down on him had him pegged as a 3rd liner, which is what he is right now.  Limited minutes and protected against lesser competition.  He is performing between Pearson and Leivo numbers... great for him, but not exactly lighting the world on fire as his comparables are cast offs from other teams.  His history has just reduced our expectations of him so significantly that it is easy for him to surpass it.

 

He has a long way to go before proving himself as a top 6 guy like everyone has been claiming for years.

Hmm but I don’t believe I have done that. I have defended him as a work in progress in past years and hoped for him to break out. I have defended him against people saying he is fat, lazy and a bust who should be traded or waived. 

 

That is not not the same thing as saying he is perfect. He is a prospect that is on track and has learned a lot over the years, and this will be his breakout year. I certainly believed that and still do. 

 

I have also said repeatedly that if he is a skilled third liner who can be a speedy difference maker who hits like a wrecking ball I am perfectly ok with that. I think he can be an entertaining and awesome part of this team. Don't think that is an unreasonable take.

 

The Church of Virtanen stuff is all in fun. I would think that was clear. 

 

Are you saying that people like Yummycakehole above are not deserving of criticism for their take?

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The truth will come out this summer. He's a RFA with arbitration rights, what money he gets and the length of the term will be an indication of what management and Jake/agent believe his future is

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On 12/31/2019 at 9:15 AM, Timbermen said:

Worst post of the year, just clueless. Let's quote this every page just to remind every one.

hmm, that cake is delicious

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Some posters might have to review what their opinion was earlier in the year. No lame excuses, just admit you were wrong. He is showing why he should be on the top line. SPEED.

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Jake's trajectory - on the Green slow-forge program - and the timing of it - are lining up pretty damn nicely at this point.

 

I'm not really concerned about a flash-in-the-pan' element underlying this - I think the opposite is the case - that Green has him developing consistently, emerging with a two-way base to his game that includes having handled harder minutes (3rd line, shutdown minutes with Sutter, 3rd line complementary minutes with Gaudette, where Gaudette is arguably a bit over his head / not quite ready for the harder, two-way matchup aspects of that role....  Virtanen moving up and down the lineup, gaining more opportunity and trust as he earns it and shows more consistency....I think Green deserves a LOT of credit, and Jake as well, who has clearly bought in / seems to have full acceptance and belief in how Green has worked with and utilized him.

 

I think what we're seeing is the emergence of a real player, not simply a short-term breakout.

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If you listen to this J.D. Burke interview, he explains that the underlying numbers still seem to indicate that it is more likely that this current production is noise rather than indicative of a sustained higher trajectory.

There certainly isn't enough of a sample to indicate he is a legit 20 goal scorer.  He has had a good few weeks after a poor training camp, October and November.

The real worry is that he hits 20 goals this year and his arbitration number gets ugly... and then he reverts back to the mean.  You could be looking at an arbitration award that starts with a three or four, and that is a worrying number.  The team will have a really difficult decision deciding on whether he is a player they want to spend that money on or whether a return from a trade could be worth more.

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1 minute ago, oldnews said:

The only 'small sample' aberration in Virtanen's numbers is a shooting percentage that is 4.9% higher than last season.  14.6% shooting vs 9.7 is one factor alone, but not nearly enough to attempt to undermine his performance as if a short term misrepresentation of an  otherwise 'underlying' reality.

 

So, with 96 shots, if one wants/seeks/tries to hard to adjust Virtanen's shooting percentage to 'mean' - you can take 4 goals away and chalk that up to 'luck'.   However, that might fail to look at the context of his chances - on a better team, with more depth, a higher scoring team that produces more high quality chances - with the likes of Hughes, Miller, etc in the current equation, vs a significantly less dangerous lineup for the majority of last year.  And it still leaves Virtanen with 10 goals in 48 games playing 12:36 of primarily bottom six minutes, with a rookie center whose own 5 on 5 production is not impressive (nor are his winger's).

 

If you balance Virtanen's current production against other factors...

 

ie Virtanen's principal linemates this year have been Gaudette, who has 11 even strength points, and Roussel, who has 6.

 

Virtanen's 21 even strength points - are in no way inflated by a mere 3 points that have come while playing with Horvat/Pearson or 1 pt while playing with EP/Miller.

 

There is nothing 'situational' about his deployment - no gold-rush of ozone starts, no real spike in ice-time, no flood of powerplay production etc - to account for any 'underlying' inflation of his production.

 

In fact, his minutes have been relatively limited - to 12:36 game overall, and even in his 'breakout' to only just under 15 minutes on most nights.  If you adjust his shooting percentage downwards, but consider his production in the context of bottom six minutes, there is nothing left to suggest that these numbers are inflated - quite the opposite - it's consistent with what yould expect from Virtanen. 

 

His 15 goals last year, with 45.4% ozone starts - 13 iof them at even strength, while playing 14:49 ice time/night - actually point more in the direction of a legitimate 20 goal scorer than any over-worked pretense that the 'analytics' suggest otherwise.  Virtanen produced 15 goals last year, playing with Sutter, Roussel, Horvat, Eriksson, Goldobin....in conditions that were anything but sheltered, anything but conducive to inflated production.   This year = likewise - nothing to see here but a slighly higher shooting percentage that doesn't really counterbalance the remaining factors.   Virtanen's play has been legitimately worthy of optimism, and moreover his value as a sizeable, speedy, versatile winger that can move up and down the lineup and complement different lines = ie able to complement either a matchup line like Sutter's or a sheltered secondary scoring line like Gaudette's = a valuable asset moving forward and one that has had his share of ignored, positive indicators.

 

 

 

On the radio this morning JD Burke said the opposite.  However he only based his opinion on Jake’s shooting %.  I like how you considered all those other factors.  

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57 minutes ago, Provost said:

If you listen to this J.D. Burke interview, he explains that the underlying numbers still seem to indicate that it is more likely that this current production is noise rather than indicative of a sustained higher trajectory.

There certainly isn't enough of a sample to indicate he is a legit 20 goal scorer.  He has had a good few weeks after a poor training camp, October and November.

The real worry is that he hits 20 goals this year and his arbitration number gets ugly... and then he reverts back to the mean.  You could be looking at an arbitration award that starts with a three or four, and that is a worrying number.  The team will have a really difficult decision deciding on whether he is a player they want to spend that money on or whether a return from a trade could be worth more.

Jd burke? Lol might as well ask my 9 year old neice what she thinks about virtanen

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