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Snapshot85

Why the Jake Hate????

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This is going to be Virtanen’s year. Some of you will be awfully embarrassed by the hate you are throwing Jake’s way when the wrecking ball starts to roll!

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7 hours ago, snipes2539 said:

I don't hate Jake, but I just don't think he'll ever be anything more than a bottom 6 forward.  He has a lot of physical attributes, but he lacks on the mental side of the game, he's a very blunt instrument and doesn't process the game at a high enough level to play effectively with our top talent.  Green has spent so much time working with Jake and it's always the same questions that come up year in and year out.  

 

I think it's time for fans to adjust their expectations for Jake, accept what he won't be and appreciate what he brings to the table.  If he can play with the same tenacity we've seen from Rousell night in and night out, i'll be super happy with him.

 

He hits hard, fast on the forecheck and will score 20 goals a year. What a bust!

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9 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

With respect,

like I said.... he scored more goals than over 60% of 1st round forwards in his draft year (yes small sample size) Hes defneitly worth a first rounder. Not all picks can be petty boeser or hughes.

 

The problem is you are focusing on a very specific stat that is hand picked in jakes favor.

 

Why just goals?  In 2012 hank only scored 14 goals (and 81 points). Would you claim that jakes season last year better? Not every player is defined as a goal scorers. Plenty of forwards are play makers (hank, Thornton), Defensive specialist (beagle) and enforcer/enegry types.  Value isn’t based on goals. Fiala last season while only putting up 14 goals, put up 40 points. 

 

why just the first round? Why just jakes draft year?  Some years are poor draft years. In 1999 Taylor pyatt was the 5th most productive goal scorer players picked in the first round. According to your criteria he must have had value. 

 

The point I’m trying to make is jake has only been ok. He’s 23 years old. He’s at the point where is draft status is no longer going to give him a free ride and he will have to start earning his spot over other players who are pushing for that role. If other players start to pass him then it’s totally understandable for them to be shopping.  

 

Edited by ForsbergTheGreat
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5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

The problem is you are focusing on a very specific stat that is hand picked in jakes favor.

 

Why just goals?  In 2012 hank only scored 14 goals (and 81 points). Would you claim that jakes season last year better? Not every player is defined as a goal scorers. Plenty of forwards are play makers (hank, Thornton), Defensive specialist (beagle) and enforcer/enegry types.  Value isn’t based on goals. Fiala last season while only putting up 14 goals, put up 40 points. 

 

why just the first round? Why just jakes draft year?  Some years are poor draft years. In 1999 Taylor pyatt was the 5th most productive goal scorer players picked in the first round. According to your criteria he must have had value. 

 

The point I’m trying to make is jake has only been ok. He’s 23 years old. He’s at the point where is draft status is no longer going to give him a free ride and he will have to start earning his spot over other players who are pushing for that role. If other players start to pass him then it’s totally understandable for them to be shopping.  

 

Great post, this year really is do or die for him imo with the canucks.

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9 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

No they don't.

 

Virtanen- 47.8%

Laine- 46.2%

 

And that doesn't take into account the fact that Laine was deployed in the top 6 for most of the season, while Virtanen played up and down the lineup. I don't have the stats in fron of me, but I'm willing to bet Laine got a larger percentage of O-zone starts than Virtanen did as well. 

What are you talking about Laine is 55.6 Virtanen is 50.8.  Maybe I’m just seeing it wrong. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/v/virtaja01-advanced.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lainepa01-advanced.html

 

Even if you go to even strength they aren’t your numbers, they are pretty much the same and better than your numbers

Edited by mpt

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1 hour ago, VforVirtanen said:

This is going to be Virtanen’s year. Some of you will be awfully embarrassed by the hate you are throwing Jake’s way when the wrecking ball starts to roll!

He is sure starting it out right in Group C

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It was pretty stupid of management to have JV and McCann rushed into the lineup.  Both should have stayed in juniors / AHL until they were ready.

 

I think rushing them in hampered them a bit.  Maybe develop bad habits as well.

 

That being said...PF usually take time.  So let's see how the season unfolds for JV.

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I have been a huge supporter of Jake, but he does not usually play to his potential. He often plays as if he is content just to be in the NHL, but doesn't give that final 10% that makes a player complete

 

I will take 8/10 talent who plays 10/10 heart/commitment every day of the week over a 10/10 talent who plays with 8/10 heart/commitment

 

Jake is young, in the NHL, in his home market. With that comes extra scrutiny, fair or not.  Could he still prosper here? Sure, but he needs to make the commitment. Stop following 1000 beautiful women on Instagram, and concentrate on hockey. 

 

I know people will say what he does on his own time is his business. Conceptually, that is correct. However, if it impacts his success on the ice, then he should address it. 

 

Jake for a second rounder,now? I'd pass, because I'm an optimist...

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Screw the media this kid is over 6ft and still is our fastest skater on the team trading away a potential 20-25 goal guy is stupid i dont want picks right now our window is now open its not rebuild time anymore foh media bums 

 

shaller is a bum 

baer career career could be over on one bad hit 

weve got other options 

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11 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

So today I was listening to a popular canucks radio show. The 2 hosts suggested that jake virtanen is one of the 5 canucks being shopped right now. Their view is that if we get offered a second round pick to jump on it. 

 

Seriously that was their view.

 

 

 

Who the heck let Pratt back on the air!!!

 

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I’d trade Jake if the price is right.  Of the available players, he’ll likely return the best value, and there’s enough depth to play his role imo.

 

I still like Jake, and I don’t think Benning wants to move him...  but I’m really unsure if Green is actually a believer.  

 

However....  imo... don’t trade him until you see what he can do in the postseason...  my guess is at the very least, he improves his market value. 

Edited by 70seven
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They probably wouldn't get much in a trade, because Jake is a bit of an underacheiver. They are probably better off keeping him and hoping he gets it one day. At least he's not expensive.

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2 hours ago, mpt said:

He is sure starting it out right in Group C

And played his way back into the main group. So what is your point?

Edited by VforVirtanen
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1 hour ago, rychicken said:

I have been a huge supporter of Jake, but he does not usually play to his potential. He often plays as if he is content just to be in the NHL, but doesn't give that final 10% that makes a player complete

 

I will take 8/10 talent who plays 10/10 heart/commitment every day of the week over a 10/10 talent who plays with 8/10 heart/commitment

 

Jake is young, in the NHL, in his home market. With that comes extra scrutiny, fair or not.  Could he still prosper here? Sure, but he needs to make the commitment. Stop following 1000 beautiful women on Instagram, and concentrate on hockey. 

 

I know people will say what he does on his own time is his business. Conceptually, that is correct. However, if it impacts his success on the ice, then he should address it. 

 

Jake for a second rounder,now? I'd pass, because I'm an optimist...

I agree with all your saying rychicken, but my leash is a lot longer. 

 

My leash extends for another year or so...….it would be nice if he would have developed sooner, but he has progressed, and he is a decent overall contributor, just not reaching his potential, yet. 

 

For me, I want to see Jake at 25 years old.....that is when the team will be closer to its peak over all, and when I think the light goes on with Jake.....

 

Personally, I think Jake needs that one on one meeting every game, where he has targets given, both subjectively and figuratively, meaning Jake should be given actual targets defensively, where he destroys players that have been identified. This in general would be his opposing wing and Dman. I honestly think, if he succeeded with completing his game defensive assignments (the hitting part), he would be engaged and the offense would come.

 

This is not to say he should force the hits or run all over the ice, but to focus on chances that he does have. If he did this, a lot of opponents would be playing Jake instead of the puck, that would be a good thing, collectively for the team

 

The other thing Jakes needs is a understanding of what Utica is like, which can be done for 2 weeks on an injury conditioning stint (I believe), personally, a couple of weeks on the farm, might get him to understand, how good it is on the big club...……..it should be strategic if needed.

 

But I am not selling him, unless it is for a huge over payment

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4 minutes ago, VforVirtanen said:

And played his way back into the main group. So what is your point?

His point died as soon as that day passed and Green's point was proven, please don't make him iterate it further. It'll only be brain numbing. 

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12 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

So today I was listening to a popular canucks radio show. The 2 hosts suggested that jake virtanen is one of the 5 canucks being shopped right now. Their view is that if we get offered a second round pick to jump on it. 

 

Seriously that was their view.

 

Now this leads me to believe that us as a whole is sour on the kid. 

 

I like Jake I'll admit, but I'm not in the jake virtanen or bust camp.

 

But a second round pick is ridiculous... he is at least worth a first. In fact hes worth more than a first round pick. 

I will back this up with facts.

 

Forwards are drafted to put the puck in the net. 

Out of Jake's draft class 25 forwards were drafted in the first round. I'll use his draft class alone because they are apples to apples in age and development.

 

Of those 25 forwards drafted in the first round.... only 9 ... count it 9 scored more nhl goals than Jake in 18-19. 15 players found the back of the net less often.  This means hes well above 50% so better than a random first round pick. Also the goals scored and nhl success rate of the second rounders is weak at best.

Adding to Jake's value is.... a few truths... hes improved every year, hes top 3 fastest skaters in the nhl ( subjective I know) and he hits like a moose when he wants to. Hes on a cheap contract !

And to add to his value...he can help a team now... today!!

When he realizes that this is a job.. and hes not just a kid playing a game anymore... he will take it all a bit more serious  and it will all click.  

 

So to suggest hes worth a second round pick is ludacris. 

 

I know we all had super high expectations of him when he was picked..... maybe he hasnt lived up to our lofty expectations.... 

 

But a second round pick. 

Coming from hockey guys like that. 

 

Shows me ... we should all lighten up on jake a bit.

 

Let's see what he does in 19/20 before giving him away. 

 

Thanks all

 

Solid Post/thread/subject

 

Worthy of discussion

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Rumours are just rumours. This year has had more whiffs than hits... By a lot. I'm have a hard time trusting the pundits this season.

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