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Why the Jake Hate????

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19 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I agree with all your saying rychicken, but my leash is a lot longer. 

 

My leash extends for another year or so...….it would be nice if he would have developed sooner, but he has progressed, and he is a decent overall contributor, just not reaching his potential, yet. 

 

For me, I want to see Jake at 25 years old.....that is when the team will be closer to its peak over all, and when I think the light goes on with Jake.....

 

Personally, I think Jake needs that one on one meeting every game, where he has targets given, both subjectively and figuratively, meaning Jake should be given actual targets defensively, where he destroys players that have been identified. This in general would be his opposing wing and Dman. I honestly think, if he succeeded with completing his game defensive assignments (the hitting part), he would be engaged and the offense would come.

 

This is not to say he should force the hits or run all over the ice, but to focus on chances that he does have. If he did this, a lot of opponents would be playing Jake instead of the puck, that would be a good thing, collectively for the team

 

The other thing Jakes needs is a understanding of what Utica is like, which can be done for 2 weeks on an injury conditioning stint (I believe), personally, a couple of weeks on the farm, might get him to understand, how good it is on the big club...……..it should be strategic if needed.

 

But I am not selling him, unless it is for a huge over payment

I am with you. Ever since Green had Jake down in Utica he has improved both there and at the NHL level. Yes, Jake has speed but I also like his shot. Lots of umpf on it. I don't know if Jake can score 25 off a 3rd line but I do expect another improvement over last year. If nothing else the playoffs last spring has shown that size does make a dif in CUP play. I am excited about how Jake learns from Miller, Ferland and Roussel this year. Their combined influence could be what makes it click for Virtanen. Sorry I forgot Benn. 

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C'mon millennials, not all criticism is "hate". I'm a huge fan of Jake but he's merely hinted at being a consistently impactful player so far. I love the fact that every time he steps on the ice he has the potential to blow somebody up or steal the puck and go all the way (an increasingly rare ability in today's high skill NHL), but it is infuriating to watch him disappear for periods/games at a time. He'd go a long way towards pacifying critics of his game if he merely found some increased level of intensity/compete/desperation. It's a big year for Jake, I hope this is the year the light bulb comes on.

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I don't think "hate" is the proper term. Jake has given no reason to hate him - though many do feel it is frustrating he doesn't put in a full effort to be an NHL player, and the fact his stats don't properly reflect his draft position expectations.

 

With all this said, I am fine with his skillset being on the 3rd line and slow progression.  It's cap friendly for us, and we now have options in our top 6 that make Jake not hitting his ceiling not really that big of a deal anymore.

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3 hours ago, mpt said:

What are you talking about Laine is 55.6 Virtanen is 50.8.  Maybe I’m just seeing it wrong. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/v/virtaja01-advanced.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lainepa01-advanced.html

 

Even if you go to even strength they aren’t your numbers, they are pretty much the same and better than your numbers

I got my numbers off a different site. Perhaps a different means of calculation. 

 

All you have to do is watch the games though. Virtanen has become a defensive rock, hence why Green is experimenting with him on the penalty kill. I'm disappointed that Virtanen hasn't lived up to his draft position too, but to pass him off as nothing is foolish imho. Big, strong, young, defensively responsible wingers that can potentially net 20 goals playing in all positions aren't chopped liver. 

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17 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I don't think "hate" is the proper term.

I think you're correct, but it's been amazing how the local sports media has been trading Jake for the last 6 months. And it's been an everyday conversation. The irony is they say that Jake is the only "tradeable" player who could bring back a worthwhile return, ignoring the fact that the premise of their argument accepts Jake is coveted by other teams.  And that's exactly why we shouldn't trade him.

 

Thankfully, Canucks management seems far more intelligent than sports radio hosts.

Edited by Abysmal Moniker

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This happens every year with several players. Look at canucks fans, each draft pick is the next (fill in superstar). Trading away a draft pick is dangerous for the player we get. They are then an easy target for a what could have been. Bo went through it because we traded away schneider for him. Look at the recent interview. He had a tough time at the start. 

 

I predict Miller will be an easy one that fans jump on, if he struggles, because we traded away a 1st for him. 

 

Jake's problem is he was drafted 6th overall. Look at how fans are with Juolevi. 

 

It's a ridiculous occurance with fans. Expectations are way too high. Unfortunately, everyone (players) is tuned a little different.  Some get it right away, some take time, so e need a change, and some never get it. 

 

So to answer your question, it's because he was drafted 6th overall. If people would realize that maybe they should tone down there expectations, and let the players play, they may not have all this "hate". 

 

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Jake is still only 23. My take on him is that he's maturing at a slower rate than others. Everyone's different. Some guys are like that.

 

He's still more of a young, free spirit in a professional man's world. In some aspects he's already there. In other aspects, he's still finding himself and his game. I think that's why we keep seeing those flashes of brilliance and potential. His maturity and talent are still misaligned.

 

Once that settles out within him and he sees himself more as a man, that maturity will change his approach to the game, give him more confidence physically and mentally, and align his talent and skill in a complete way. 

 

The interesting thing is that all the adversity and challenges he's faced to date should turn into a much deeper level of confidence once he really comes into his own after 25. At some point, after so much experience at a young age, it will all just click and come together for him.

 

The talent is there but the maturity hasn't been. When that happens, I honestly believe we'll see what we've been waiting for in Jake. And given how the team is evolving and growing, Jake should be that player at the same time as our team talent level increases in a couple years. Having Ferland in the lineup will also be invaluable for Jake's next steps.

 

I wouldn't be giving up on Jake yet. Imo, his best days are coming. 

 

 

 

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I love how people will throw out CF% on it's own as if it has any meaning whatsoever in isolation.  Without zone starts and the context of who you play with it's not of much use.  Kind of like +/- or any other stat.  Without context, you can't determine much of anything with it.  It makes sense that Jake's CF% is lower than Laine given the way the players are used.  One gets lots of PP time and high end 5v5 line mates.  The other gets little to no PP time and guys who's job is to shut down the opposition. You are comparing hamburger and spinach when you do this.

 

Seriously, people throw out the word Corsi and don't even give the correct stat (giving CF% rather than Corsi, which is raw shot attempts).  If you can't tell the difference, you certainly shouldn't be using it to make a point.

Edited by RogersTowell
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Just leave him on he 4th line.

Let Jake work his way out of it.

Some vet needs to slap him upside the head behind closed doors and tell him whats what,  especially if he's unfocused or distracted.

Like a Jake whisperer.

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I do believe the Ferland acquisition has put Virtanen more on the bubble now, but at the same time I'm a Jake supporter, so no way am I giving up on him I'll wait until he's 25 to make that decision. I do believe if he finds a way to get opportunity on the top 2 lines or some PP time this year, that's when he can start producing offensively more, but if he continues to be on the 3rd and 4th lines obviously offensive production won't be there, and now due to some of the new acquisitions it's going to be a lot more tougher for Jake to find room on the top 2 lines.

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No one "hates" Jake.  Its just frustrating, as others have said.

I think Travis purposely put Jake into a back to back game, including travel from Calgary to Vancouver, to test his commitment to consistency.  By my eye test he disappeared in that second game at home. Sadly predictable. I just don't get it. Interesting also that even though he got two goals in Calgary, including the winner in OT, he was not named as ANY of the three stars. Now I know that doesn't mean much to him or Green, and I don't know if the 3 stars were picked by Calgary homers, but its still a bit telling.  I watched that game and I agree with that. He seems to only push it into second gear when there is a breakdown in the game and he is in a position to take advantage of a situation. Which isn't a bad thing, I'd just like to see him force the issue and create his own "situations" more often, and more consistently.

 

We hear it all the time.  The league is getting faster.  I think that also includes fast THINKERS of the game, to match the physical speed.  That's where I am unsure of how much Virtanen excels.  This is why a player like Burrows was so successful. He wasn't the fastest skater, or the biggest, or the most skilled, but he thought the game very quickly, and knew just where to be when, including where a particular Sedin would be at any one time. Add hustle you have a winning formula. And hustle is only possible when you have those hockey smarts. They depend on each other.  I think mental quickness bodes well for being more physically engaged. If you are thinking one step behind others, you probably will also be physically one step behind. No matter how much faster you are as a skater.

 

I don't want to have this opinion, but my patience is running out. But I'm willing to allow some more time to let Jake change my mind. 

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After the game he scored 2 goals in, people quickly jumped to post all the apparent things Jake did wrong.  Kid gets way more crap on here than he deserves.  Nice to see I am not alone in my opinion. :)

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If jake was producing his cap hit would hamstring us, not sure what i would prefer tho

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3 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I got my numbers off a different site. Perhaps a different means of calculation. 

 

All you have to do is watch the games though. Virtanen has become a defensive rock, hence why Green is experimenting with him on the penalty kill. I'm disappointed that Virtanen hasn't lived up to his draft position too, but to pass him off as nothing is foolish imho. Big, strong, young, defensively responsible wingers that can potentially net 20 goals playing in all positions aren't chopped liver. 

I saw 47.8% for Virt with 45% Ozone starts and 46.2% corsi for Laine in 60% Ozone starts.  From hockey-reference.  It’s even strength, of course, since Laine I’m sure gets a ton of PP time and Jake on the other hand gets PK time.  

 

Silly to compare shots for/against if you allow that.

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I don’t care how “frustrated” you are with Jake, you don’t move out a 15 goal 3rd line lock who plays solid D, generates takeaways and can hit...  all for a low cap hit and with still a lot of upside.  He’s not a bubble player like Goldobin - he’s a contributor even if he just maintains his current level.  

 

Certainly not a guy to be traded for a 2nd rounder and absolutely not in a season we’re looking to make the playoffs. 

 

Swallow the silly disappointment and stop advocating to make the team worse.

Edited by ilduce39
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Virtanen is a known 3rd line RW, 15 goals career high and only getting better and should progress again this year. his salary, potential, speed, skill, draft pedigree, local boy...

 

I also enjoy the idea of JV riding shotgun with Miller and Horvat.

 

Ferland Pettersson Boeser 

Miller Horvat Virtanen 

Baertschi Sutter Gaudette 

Motte Beagle Leivo 

Schaller Roussel 

 

JV for a 2nd? That is just embarrassing by whoever said that in the media.

 

Does anyone think GMJB actually would take picks for JV?

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2 hours ago, kilgore said:

No one "hates" Jake.  Its just frustrating, as others have said.

I think Travis purposely put Jake into a back to back game, including travel from Calgary to Vancouver, to test his commitment to consistency.  By my eye test he disappeared in that second game at home. Sadly predictable. I just don't get it. 

Your perspective is not unreasonable but I will point out there is a big difference between playing on the 1st line in the 1st game and the 4th line in the 2nd game. 

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He needs to be in the top six but I don’t see how he gets there now.

 

that being said I feel he would be a big part of a playoff series.

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5 hours ago, hlinkas wrister said:

C'mon millennials, not all criticism is "hate". I'm a huge fan of Jake but he's merely hinted at being a consistently impactful player so far. I love the fact that every time he steps on the ice he has the potential to blow somebody up or steal the puck and go all the way (an increasingly rare ability in today's high skill NHL), but it is infuriating to watch him disappear for periods/games at a time. He'd go a long way towards pacifying critics of his game if he merely found some increased level of intensity/compete/desperation. It's a big year for Jake, I hope this is the year the light bulb comes on.

Easy boomer.

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I think the people that do complain, do it because we took him over Nylander & Ehlers.  It's a hate of the draft pick, not of the player. 

 

Though Jake has left himself open to be hated on because of an arguably poor attitude and coming into camp in bad shape.  

 

Jake was given way too much leeway his rookie year.  The Canucks have more depth now.  I think it's time for Jake to make some strides or he'll be passed by other players.  There's no room for laziness in Green's system.  

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