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Why the Jake Hate????

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18 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Jake is very solid defensively. 

According to advanced stats Jake is one of the best forwards defensively in the NHL

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All jake has to do is outplay Goldolbin and maybe Leivo for a roster spot.  And maybe get in shape .

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Fans and kids seem to love him.  I wanted to get my Sweater signed by Jake and there were tons of people getting autographs and picture with him and he spent time with everyone from what I saw.  I couldn't get the autograph as I was worn out from the day in Abbotsford.  He also has done quite a bit with CAN and other children charities.  To top it all off he is well liked by his teammates.  On here we get complainers that will never be happy with anything he dose.  Eventually you just block it out.

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11 hours ago, mpt said:

What are you talking about Laine is 55.6 Virtanen is 50.8.  Maybe I’m just seeing it wrong. 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/v/virtaja01-advanced.html

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lainepa01-advanced.html

 

Even if you go to even strength they aren’t your numbers, they are pretty much the same and better than your numbers

Maybe you feel the same about Corsi ratings as well?

A better Corsi for Jake over Laine or EP40 even if it was true, would not mean he is a better player than either of them

Put him against the better players playing against EP and the ratings would drop 

 

I think Jake could be a better player this year, just wish he would have come into camp and blown everyone away with his commitment to conditioning and being a better hockey player, obviously conditioning is something he needed to work on

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12 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

The problem is you are focusing on a very specific stat that is hand picked in jakes favor.

 

Why just goals?  In 2012 hank only scored 14 goals (and 81 points). Would you claim that jakes season last year better? Not every player is defined as a goal scorers. Plenty of forwards are play makers (hank, Thornton), Defensive specialist (beagle) and enforcer/enegry types.  Value isn’t based on goals. Fiala last season while only putting up 14 goals, put up 40 points. 

 

why just the first round? Why just jakes draft year?  Some years are poor draft years. In 1999 Taylor pyatt was the 5th most productive goal scorer players picked in the first round. According to your criteria he must have had value. 

 

The point I’m trying to make is jake has only been ok. He’s 23 years old. He’s at the point where is draft status is no longer going to give him a free ride and he will have to start earning his spot over other players who are pushing for that role. If other players start to pass him then it’s totally understandable for them to be shopping.  

 

This. We're likely seeing his last year to show he's committed, or he'll lose his spot to someone else who is.

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1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

This. We're likely seeing his last year to show he's committed, or he'll lose his spot to someone else who is.

Love Jake and his skill set, but maybe he’s just a hamster brain? 

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23 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

So today I was listening to a popular canucks radio show. The 2 hosts suggested that jake virtanen is one of the 5 canucks being shopped right now. Their view is that if we get offered a second round pick to jump on it. 

 

Seriously that was their view.

 

Now this leads me to believe that us as a whole is sour on the kid. 

 

I like Jake I'll admit, but I'm not in the jake virtanen or bust camp.

 

But a second round pick is ridiculous... he is at least worth a first. In fact hes worth more than a first round pick. 

I will back this up with facts.

 

Forwards are drafted to put the puck in the net. 

Out of Jake's draft class 25 forwards were drafted in the first round. I'll use his draft class alone because they are apples to apples in age and development.

 

Of those 25 forwards drafted in the first round.... only 9 ... count it 9 scored more nhl goals than Jake in 18-19. 15 players found the back of the net less often.  This means hes well above 50% so better than a random first round pick. Also the goals scored and nhl success rate of the second rounders is weak at best.

Adding to Jake's value is.... a few truths... hes improved every year, hes top 3 fastest skaters in the nhl ( subjective I know) and he hits like a moose when he wants to. Hes on a cheap contract !

And to add to his value...he can help a team now... today!!

When he realizes that this is a job.. and hes not just a kid playing a game anymore... he will take it all a bit more serious  and it will all click.  

 

So to suggest hes worth a second round pick is ludacris. 

 

I know we all had super high expectations of him when he was picked..... maybe he hasnt lived up to our lofty expectations.... 

 

But a second round pick. 

Coming from hockey guys like that. 

 

Shows me ... we should all lighten up on jake a bit.

 

Let's see what he does in 19/20 before giving him away. 

 

Thanks all

 

So why is this called hate? Pretty strong word for just people commenting on the Canucks!

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Love Jake and his skill set, but maybe he’s just a hamster brain? 

I don't know if Jake is immature or if we're just used to the modern day athlete maturing at the a younger age, so our expectations are just higher. Think of how the league has changed over the last 10 years. Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews, McDavid, etc. They all got handed the keys to the kingdom at a younger age. Then we have guys like Bo, Boeser and Petey that are mature beyond their years. So I think Jake, his maturity, committment and understanding of the game are still a work in progress. I mean, he just turned 23. He's physically developed but I think his physical attributes were so superior to his peers that he didn't have to rely on his smarts. So that part of his game (and possibly his life) is still a little underdeveloped. I have faith that 25 year old Jake will be a very valuable player. It's just going to take him time to get there.

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15 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Would anyone trade Jake for McCann?

Say whaaaaa? According to CDC he was cancer in the dressing room. I could go either way, but I see more value in centres than wingers. 

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5 hours ago, DS4quality said:

Say whaaaaa? According to CDC he was cancer in the dressing room. I could go either way, but I see more value in centres than wingers. 

Likely gets a job playing it’s Crosby - watch him get 50 points and the CDC whine some more about that Guddy trade.  Maybe not now that Galy is there but he’s probably playing with Malkin.  Either way if he’s top six with those two guys he will put up some points. 

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Let's be honest. People "hate" on Jake because he was picked over better players that we wanted more and then failed to live up to the team's hype. Same as Juolevi.

 

It's one thing if the consensus pick flops, it's another thing if a reach flops. It makes the team look stupid. I don't remember anyone who was calling for Jake over Nylander, Ehlers or even Ritchie. Now obviously it isn't Jake's fault he got picked at 6, but that's obviously where the hate comes from. If he was picked at 25th, no one would complain.

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Likely gets a job playing it’s Crosby - watch him get 50 points and the CDC whine some more about that Guddy trade.  Maybe not now that Galy is there but he’s probably playing with Malkin.  Either way if he’s top six with those two guys he will put up some points. 

I’d say he was a decent 35-40-point c/winger, without Crosby.

 

Nothing wrong with McCann as a utility player with upside.

Nothing wrong with our 6th OA version of that too, but I think Jake’s hockey IQ is quite low, like Sestito-low. 

 

I wouldn't bother making the trade, but also wouldn’t be fussed if we did either.

Jake is a non factor at this stage. All he has to do is prove he isn’t and become a playoff warrior type and he will be here for life. 

 

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4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’d say he was a decent 35-40-point c/winger, without Crosby.

 

Nothing wrong with McCann as a utility player with upside.

Nothing wrong with our 6th OA version of that too, but I think Jake’s hockey IQ is quite low, like Sestito-low. 

 

I wouldn't bother making the trade, but also wouldn’t be fussed if we did either.

Jake is a non factor at this stage. All he has to do is prove he isn’t and become a playoff warrior type and he will be here for life. 

 

Yeah pretty much agree with this.  In the end we have Pearson instead of McAaan, I like that trade even though he’s older because he’s a bigger body and harder to handle.

 

As far as JV goes, barring injuries Boeser and Miller have closed the door shut on getting any top six minutes...at least for now, and I doubt he’s played on his off wing - that takes more brains and hockey sense.

 

If he can score five more goals this year he’s definitely a good third liner - think it’s very possible especially if he becomes a regular on a should be much improved  second PP unit.   Don’t think Ferland or Pearson will do any better on the third line either.  Agree there is something missing between his ears, but it should improve over time and more experience.   Funny how Goldobin and Leivo are given the juicy assignments and he’s left languishing with Sutter or whomever.  That said his linemates have moved up a notch, maybe TG evens out the quality of opposition a little and gives that line a bit more breathing room and less d-zone starts.  We have the guns for three scoring lines now and it should only help with his chances....actually we have the guns for three decent  third lines....a little like Vegas was their first year. 

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On 9/20/2019 at 3:02 AM, BrockBoester said:

 

Yeah it's really a shame, we could have had Josh Ho-Sang, Sonny Milano or even Nikolai Goldobin!

 

(Yes I'm being deliberately obtuse but for reals the 2014 draft wasn't exactly a gold mine)

(Except for the Russian Monster Nikita Tryamkin of course - a steal of steals in the 3rd round lol)

Yeah that should really help his conditioning and dedication, not playing for half the season

Funny, Tryamkin gets such love but he showed up to camp way out of shape and had to spend the first part of the season conditioning.

You are just never going to make everybody happy on CDC.

A good third line winger that provides speed, toughness and can chip in some goals is a very valuable guy.  They are generally fairly salary cap friendly as well.  These are good pieces to have.

Jake still has a way to improve to be really good utility winge but is showing steady progression in his game if not his professionalism.  Roussell and Ferland may help show him the way, Beagle also provides that kind of example.

There are other pieces coming to provide pressure from below.  Podz in a couple years, McEwen now and will see how Lind, Hoglander etc progress.

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On 9/19/2019 at 9:30 PM, kingofsurrey said:

I really expect to see a break out season for Jake year.  He will start to hit his stride this year as a 23 year old.

 

Remember as a  22 yr old . Bertuzzi  had 13 goals...

Virt had 15 goals.

 

 

 

Power forwards take more time to develop. 

 

Seeing as how his contract is up after this season I am also predicting big things from Jake this year. Don't trade him now when he is on the cusp!

 

Also, $1.125m for a 15 goal scorer is an absolute bargain. I could see them wanting to trade him if he was making $3+, but at his current rate he is a steal. Throwing him away for a 2nd rounder is the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard and so of course I am not surprised to hear it from the Vancouver media. :lol:

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3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Funny, Tryamkin gets such love but he showed up to camp way out of shape and had to spend the first part of the season conditioning.

You are just never going to make everybody happy on CDC.

A good third line winger that provides speed, toughness and can chip in some goals is a very valuable guy.  They are generally fairly salary cap friendly as well.  These are good pieces to have.

Jake still has a way to improve to be really good utility winge but is showing steady progression in his game if not his professionalism.  Roussell and Ferland may help show him the way, Beagle also provides that kind of example.

There are other pieces coming to provide pressure from below.  Podz in a couple years, McEwen now and will see how Lind, Hoglander etc progress.

We needed that pick to be a winner. 

It was the first of what was supposed to be a rebuild era. 

 

The fortune of that pick had an impact on everything since, IMO, and hence all the negativity surrounding his name. 

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Trading Jake would be one of the dumbest things ever, unless we got an overpayment. He’ll be at least an elite third liner in his prime. He’s not going to be immature forever. Once he matures and gains his confidence he’ll be one of the most valuable players on the team imo.

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