[GDT/PGT] Canucks @ Kings - Sep 21st 2019 - 6PM from Salt Lake City Utah

[Camel Toe Drag]

Just saw the game.

 

McIntyre couldn’t make a save holy cow. When your team scores 5 goals you should be winning the game. 

 

Good on hockeygaud for making the decision tough on the coaches whether he’ll be sent down. He’s a gamer. 

[Borvat]

Just now, Rush17 said:

Maybe we all just need to lower our expectations for Jake. I'm half joking, half serious.

 

He is extremely frustrating to watch - maybe just lower expectations might ease the process. You just see his speed, size, and shot.. its hard not to think he could be so much better if he just gave it 

I think lowering expectations is dangerous especially with a young player who hasn't peaked - hopefully. I believe TG is telling him what he needs to do to be the best he can be and he isn't there yet.  I expect Jake to be a mid six winger who plays hard consistently, with a physical edge, who is defensively responsible and is willing to go to the net/tough places - 15 - 20 goals and 30 - 40 points.  I don't think that is unreasonable.

[Rush17]

Just now, Borvat said:

I think lowering expectations is dangerous especially with a young player who hasn't peaked - hopefully. I believe TG is telling him what he needs to do to be the best he can be and he isn't there yet.  I expect Jake to be a mid six winger who plays hard consistently, with a physical edge, who is defensively responsible and is willing to go to the net/tough places - 15 - 20 goals and 30 - 40 points.  I don't think that is unreasonable.

I mean lowering my personal expectations as a fan. He frustrates me beyond belief lol.

[Rush17]

Just now, Rush17 said:

I mean lowering my personal expectations as a fan. He frustrates me beyond belief lol.

Goldobin is just as bad. At least Hutton isn't there doing the same thing anymore lol. I'm fine knowing we are where we are in the standings when everyone is giving it. but when players under perform their natural talents its exhausting.

[Rush17]

Just now, Rush17 said:

Goldobin is just as bad. At least Hutton isn't there doing the same thing anymore lol. I'm fine knowing we are where we are in the standings when everyone is giving it. but when players under perform their natural talents its exhausting.

If we had a globetrotters team for hockey.. I swear goldobin could be on it he is that talented. He just can't seen to translate that skill from the practice environment to the big leagues.

[Pete M]

2 hours ago, Rush17 said:

+/- isn't a good indicator of anything. Buffalo has been a terrible team for years. Aside from their win streak last year they haven't been a very productive team.

 

Rasmus Dahlin was -18 last season as well and he's one of the best young defenders in the game. Put either of them in a different situation and that +/- stat would drastically change.

 

+/- is a team stat if anything and it hardly gives us a full picture. Hell Edler was -39 one year under torts. It's most likely situational.

wadr, I have to disagree with the bolded part, but I do agree with the italic bold part...+/- is like any other stat, it needs to be kept in context with other factors that come into play that affect the stat.

 

For example, I would be more concerned with Risto's +/- last year (2018/2019) than the year before (2017/2018)...see below, Risto did not improve where as other players did improve. However, it is dependent on other factors....It's an indicator which allows a person to get into deeper analysis of why a player is -41...which is a glaring stat when compared to other players on the team. 

2018/2019

2017/2018

Edited September 22, 2019 by Pete M

[Rush17]

2 minutes ago, Pete M said:

wadr, I have to disagree with the bolded part, but I do agree with the italic bold part...+/- is like any other stat, it needs to be kept in context with other factors that come into play that affect the stat.

 

For example, I would be more concerned with Risto's +/- last year (2018/2019) than the year before (2017/2018)...see below, Risto did not improve where as other players did improve. However, it is dependent on other factors....It's an indicator which allows a person to get into deeper analysis of why a player is -41...which is a glaring stat when compared to other players on the team. 

 

Who was his D partner in either year? was there consistency and what was the quality like?

[Pete M]

Just now, Rush17 said:

Who was his D partner in either year? was there consistency and what was the quality like?

exactly

[Rush17]

3 minutes ago, Pete M said:

exactly

He could be bad defensively. I haven't seen him play enough to be honest. Is @SabresFan around to ask?

[Pete M]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Risto has been a minus player his whole career, it's not a situational thing.  424 NHL games played, -143 total, 194 points.  Edler was a -39 under Torts but that was a one year deal, the rest of his career shows differently.  Dahlin was only a -13 last year and played all 82 games on the same team as Risto.  That's a big difference.  Comparing him to the rest of the Buffalo D Bogosian was a -5, McCabe was a -4, Scandella a -13, Montour a -4, Beaulieu a +1, Pilut -8, Nelson +1.  So Dahlin was the second worst at -13 and then you jump to Risto at -41.  That's pretty odd to have someone be so much worse than everyone else.  Was Risto playing 30 minutes a night?

well said,,, it throws up red flags, where closer analysis is required. 

[canuktravella]

2 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Normally I would agree. But Eriksson has stepped up recently. He is waiver eligible in a sense tho because no one would claim him. Can't imagine waiving him after a decent pre season would bode well for his confidence tho.

 

If you look at his body of work tho over the past two years you could argue sending him down.

 ya. im not saying louie hasnt got talent but  6mill for a pk specialist that has done lil or nothing since ge signed here id just rather go with youth and get 1 mill cap space with him in minors 

[Rush17]

2 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 ya. im not saying louie hasnt got talent but  6mill for a pk specialist that has done lil or nothing since ge signed here id just rather go with youth and get 1 mill cap space with him in minors 

If he deserves it - I am totally down for that. Goldobin hasn't proved he deserves to be up here tho. He needs to show up or he risks being moved on from.

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Pete M said:

wadr, I have to disagree with the bolded part, but I do agree with the italic bold part...+/- is like any other stat, it needs to be kept in context with other factors that come into play that affect the stat.

 

For example, I would be more concerned with Risto's +/- last year (2018/2019) than the year before (2017/2018)...see below, Risto did not improve where as other players did improve. However, it is dependent on other factors....It's an indicator which allows a person to get into deeper analysis of why a player is -41...which is a glaring stat when compared to other players on the team. 

2018/2019

2017/2018

This is a great analogy.  Basically the entire team improved from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019 except Risto, who got progressively worse.  This shows that +/- is indeed team oriented and that most of the players did improve year over year whether it be through coaching or the systems played.  However Risto going from -25 to -41 while everyone else is improving is quite drastic and shows how much of a defensive liability he really is.

[86Viking]

I hope JB is working REAL hard on a trade or 2. Have to think it's just a matter of days before Goldobin hits waivers. Try to get a pick or prospect back for him at least before he gets claimed for free.

 

See no reason why we should wait any longer to waive Schaller, he won't be here opening night...to me anyways. LE likely stays, rather he be sent down and we use Gaud as a winger if he makes TG final roster

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This is a great analogy.  Basically the entire team improved from 2017-2018 to 2018-2019 except Risto, who got progressively worse.  This shows that +/- is indeed team oriented and that most of the players did improve year over year whether it be through coaching or the systems played.  However Risto going from -25 to -41 while everyone else is improving is quite drastic and shows how much of a defensive liability he really is.

The Sabres have too many forwards who only want to play hard when they have a scoring chance.  That puts a lot of pressure on the D, who are too often left to defend odd man chances.  

[Alflives]

Just now, Canuckster86 said:

I hope JB is working REAL hard on a trade or 2. Have to think it's just a matter of days before Goldobin hits waivers. Try to get a pick or prospect back for him at least before he gets claimed for free.

 

See no reason why we should wait any longer to waive Schaller, he won't be here opening night...to me anyways. LE likely stays, rather he be sent down and we use Gaud as a winger if he makes TG final roster

Totally agree.  Send LE and Schaller to Utica.  I don’t know if we could even get a late pick for Goldy.  The crappy teams get the waiver picks first, so they will just wait on Goldy to be free. 

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

I mean lowering my personal expectations as a fan. He frustrates me beyond belief lol.

I don't think being in the range of 20 goals as a 22 year old is anything to be frustrated about

[canuktravella]

12 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

If he deserves it - I am totally down for that. Goldobin hasn't proved he deserves to be up here tho. He needs to show up or he risks being moved on from.

 goldobin had better stats than louie in lesser games last yr so i  disagree. especially at his 900k cap hit compared to 6 mill

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Totally agree.  Send LE and Schaller to Utica.  I don’t know if we could even get a late pick for Goldy.  The crappy teams get the waiver picks first, so they will just wait on Goldy to be free. 

If we waive Schaller and Goldy we will be cap compliant by around $250,000.  So we don't have to use Roussel's LTIR money.  This is good news as it will allow us more flexibility during the season for callups.

[Rush17]

1 minute ago, canuktravella said:

 goldobin had better stats than louie in lesser games last yr so i  disagree. especially at his 900k cap hit compared to 6 mill

All with Pettersson. Goldobin can't even produce with anyone not named Elias Pettersson. If Goldie can't produce without a world class talent then what the hell use is he for us? He is due for an extension next summer I believe.. Why would we let him play with pettersson rack up 50 pts then re-sign him if he can only play with 1 player in the lineup. If Pettersson got hurt then Goldobin's production would completely fall out.  On the other hand tho... maybe an extended look with Petey might give goldobin the confidence he needs to become a more versatile player.