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[GDT/PGT] 9/26 Canucks vs Coyotes @ 7:00 PM

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2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

"I thought he was pretty good. Played back-to-back, played a lot of hockey. He gave everything he had, that's for sure. He's had a great camp. Whatever we decide over the next few days, he's had a good camp. I like Adam. I think he's a good young player for us. We've got an important decision to make. He's made it hard on us, that's a good thing. We've got some tough decisions. I don't worry about him too much on the offensive side. It's can he defend down low, can he win a battle in his own end? It's no secret that if he plays on the team it'll be as third or fourth line centerman... He'd get different ice-time than he is in pre-season, and that's part of the decision-making that we'll make in the next few days, what's best for him and what's best for the team. He's had a great camp. Whatever we decide over the next few days, and I'm not saying it one way or the other, he's had a good camp, and I feel like I've said this a lot, but I like Adam. He's a good player, a good young player for us. We've got an important decision to make, and whatever we do we have to make sure that we're thinking about him and our team, and he's made it hard on us. And that's a good thing. Quite honestly, I wish other players made it harder on us as well. We've got some tough decisions to make, and a few days to make them still." - Green on Gaudette

wow is that a real quote? he repeated the same thing 3 times

Greener looping

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40 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Mac can learn alot going down and I have no issues with that. He will be up at some point.

 

Gaudette should stay though for sure imo.

 

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

Hughes with a game to forget. I liked Myers today, had a couple of key blocks. Virtanen outright garbage. 

 

Gaudette on the other hand, this kid deserves to be on the team. 

 

1 hour ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

That’s exactly what I would do [with Virtanen]. 4th line winger with some time in the press box. I would also be making sure he got extra on ice and dry land training to bring his fitness level up to where it needs to be. 

 

A lot of the post-game discussion is about Gaudette and Virtanen, and for obvious reasons. I have my opinion on that, but first a few general comments about the game.

 

1. The Canucks were outplayed by a significant margin. The second period was particularly bad.

 

2. Marky played well and kept the Canucks in the game. If EP had scored instead of hitting the post in the last minute, Marky might have ended up with a "steal".

 

3. I don't think the back-to-back excuse works--at least not much, as a lot of guys did not play yesterday and the Canucks are at home. And, in the data, playing back to back is a bit of a disadvantage, but all that big.

 

4. So, what did go wrong? The D gave up quite a lot tonight. Hughes struggled and I think he tipped in one of the Arizona goals. The key to  his defensive play has been controlling the puck. The other team can't score if they don't have that puck. But it is a lot harder to control the puck in the NHL than in college. He is forced to defend a lot more. And most opposing forwards are bigger and stronger than him. Still, he should keep doing what he is doing and not retreat into a defensive shell or start playing "a simple game". If he is going to make it in the NHL he needs to play a creative game and he will improve quickly as he adjusts to the NHL game.

 

5. I think Myers also struggled in his own end quite a bit and he was responsible for one of the Arizona goals as he gave the puck away and lost the resulting footrace. Still I like his game as long as he is not asked to do too much.

 

6. And, while Beiga, Brisebois, and Chatfield all played hard, I think they all gave up a lot and got trapped in their own zone quite a lot. Edler was the best D by far. And the D will tighten up a lot with Benn and Tanev and Stecher back in there.

 

7. On to the forwards. The EP line scored a nice goal but I do not like the line of EP, Leivo, and Ferland. Yes they were the best Canuck line tonight but the line with EP is always (or almost always) going to be the best Canuck line. The question is - does playing with Ferland and Leivo maximize EP's value. I think the answer is no and it is related to EP's pre-game comments about not controlling the puck enough. Ferland plays a "simple game". That is okay and he can be the third guy on a line with EP and Boeser because Boeser, like EP, has a high hockey IQ and thinks the game a high level. He and EP complement each other and Ferland can be valuable in the corners, in front of the net, playing solid defence, and adding toughness. But with Leivo instead of Boeser on the line, EP just does not have enough complementary skill to work with. Obviously getting Boeser back is very important. 

 

8. Ok, finally the big questions marks -- what about JV, Gaudette, and Goldy. Everyone is saying this is a hard decision. I don't think it is. JV played poorly tonight and had a poor pre-season but he should be on the team, as Roger says. He does not have the inner drive or the hockey IQ to be a top 6 forward but he can be a decent 4th liner.  And, if put on waivers he would be picked up. It probably comes down to Gaudette vs. Goldy (assuming Motte makes the team and the Canucks go with 7 D for the time being while Fantenberg is injured).

 

Here is the comparison. Gaudette had a great camp, Goldy had a poor camp.  Goldy makes some good offensive plays every game. But he is not a good finisher. He does not seem to focus enough to actually bury the puck. And he is not consistent. He will make a good offensive play or have a good shift then disappear for a while. But the big problem is his defence. Tonight, on the Arizona short-handed goal, he could have stopped the goal but was coasting back toward the net instead of getting there before the goal-scorer. And, of course, as a winger he does not take face-offs, and he is a very soft player. His skating is good but not exceptional.

 

Gaudette is good defensively. He can play PK. He can potentially play shutdown. He can take key defensive zone faceoffs late in the game. He can play with an edge. And I would say he has more offensive skill than Goldy. He might not look as flashy but think he sees the game and thinks the game well.  He is also younger and is more likely to improve. He is taller and, as he fills out, will contribute more to physical game.  But most importantly, he has a great attitude. He always works hard and, like Horvat and EP and Boeser, is always trying to improve his game. That is the kind of team mentality you want.  And I don't think Goldy would be picked up off waivers at this time of year.

 

So my forwards are:

Miller, EP, Boeser (if he is healthy)

Leivo, Horvat, Ferland

Baertschi Gaudette Pearson

Eriksson Beagle Sutter

13th man: Motte

14th man: Virtanen

 

I don't this is what will happen. It is just what I would to.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

 

A lot of the post-game discussion is about Gaudette and Virtanen, and for obvious reasons. I have my opinion on that, but first a few general comments about the game.

 

1. The Canucks were outplayed by a significant margin. The second period was particularly bad.

 

2. Marky played well and kept the Canucks in the game. If EP had scored instead of hitting the post in the last minute, Marky might have ended up with a "steal".

 

3. I don't think the back-to-back excuse works--at least not much, as a lot of guys did not play yesterday and the Canucks are at home. And, in the data, playing back to back is a bit of a disadvantage, but all that big.

 

4. So, what did go wrong? The D gave up quite a lot tonight. Hughes struggled and I think he tipped in one of the Arizona goals. The key to  his defensive play has been controlling the puck. The other team can't score if they don't have that puck. But it is a lot harder to control the puck in the NHL than in college. He is forced to defend a lot more. And most opposing forwards are bigger and stronger than him. Still, he should keep doing what he is doing and not retreat into a defensive shell or start playing "a simple game". If he is going to make it in the NHL he needs to play a creative game and he will improve quickly as he adjusts to the NHL game.

 

5. I think Myers also struggled in his own end quite a bit and he was responsible for one of the Arizona goals as he gave the puck away and lost the resulting footrace. Still I like his game as long as he is not asked to do too much.

 

6. And, while Beiga, Brisebois, and Chatfield all played hard, I think they all gave up a lot and got trapped in their own zone quite a lot. Edler was the best D by far. And the D will tighten up a lot with Benn and Tanev and Stecher back in there.

 

7. On to the forwards. The EP line scored a nice goal but I do not like the line of EP, Leivo, and Ferland. Yes they were the best Canuck line tonight but the line with EP is always (or almost always) going to be the best Canuck line. The question is - does playing with Ferland and Leivo maximize EP's value. I think the answer is no and it is related to EP's pre-game comments about not controlling the puck enough. Ferland plays a "simple game". That is okay and he can be the third guy on a line with EP and Boeser because Boeser, like EP, has a high hockey IQ and thinks the game a high level. He and EP complement each other and Ferland can be valuable in the corners, in front of the net, playing solid defence, and adding toughness. But with Leivo instead of Boeser on the line, EP just does not have enough complementary skill to work with. Obviously getting Boeser back is very important. 

 

8. Ok, finally the big questions marks -- what about JV, Gaudette, and Goldy. Everyone is saying this is a hard decision. I don't think it is. JV played poorly tonight and had a poor pre-season but he should be on the team, as Roger says. He does not have the inner drive or the hockey IQ to be a top 6 forward but he can be a decent 4th liner.  And, if put on waivers he would be picked up. It probably comes down to Gaudette vs. Goldy (assuming Motte makes the team and the Canucks go with 7 D for the time being while Fantenberg is injured).

 

Here is the comparison. Gaudette had a great camp, Goldy had a poor camp.  Goldy makes some good offensive plays every game. But he is not a good finisher. He does not seem to focus enough to actually bury the puck. And he is not consistent. He will make a good offensive play or have a good shift then disappear for a while. But the big problem is his defence. Tonight, on the Arizona short-handed goal, he could have stopped the goal but was coasting back toward the net instead of getting there before the goal-scorer. And, of course, as a winger he does not take face-offs, and he is a very soft player. His skating is good but not exceptional.

 

Gaudette is good defensively. He can play PK. He can potentially play shutdown. He can take key defensive zone faceoffs late in the game. He can play with an edge. And I would say he has more offensive skill than Goldy. He might not look as flashy but think he sees the game and thinks the game well.  He is also younger and is more likely to improve. He is taller and, as he fills out, will contribute more to physical game.  But most importantly, he has a great attitude. He always works hard and, like Horvat and EP and Boeser, is always trying to improve his game. That is the kind of team mentality you want.  And I don't think Goldy would be picked up off waivers at this time of year.

 

So my forwards are:

Miller, EP, Boeser (if he is healthy)

Leivo, Horvat, Ferland

Baertschi Gaudette Pearson

Eriksson Beagle Sutter

13th man: Motte

14th man: Virtanen

 

I don't this is what will happen. It is just what I would to.

 

 

BOOM! Nice post, agree with you on all points and same thoughts about Hughes and Myers - spot on I think.  Gaudette is a guy that deserves to be on the team.  Some guys say send him down cause he is waiver exempt - that is just nonsense.   People forget that last year he was probably over the course of the season the only young guy to constantly improve as the season went on (tell me I am wrong) and camp now just seems to be a continuation of the upward trend.   We know he would start as a 3rd or 4th line but there are not many guys there that have the offensive upside like him.  So one big argument for keeping him is that he won't hurt on the D side in the bottom six but in addition  he may help other guys put up points.   Gaudette is not going anywhere.

 

As for Jake, yeah you waive him and say good bye - lost asset for sure.  As for goldy, 100% agree he gets waived he will not be picked up. I thought he wasn't good enough 2 years ago and still wondering why people are high on this guy.  He is not a NHLer 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

 

A lot of the post-game discussion is about Gaudette and Virtanen, and for obvious reasons. I have my opinion on that, but first a few general comments about the game.

 

1. The Canucks were outplayed by a significant margin. The second period was particularly bad.

 

2. Marky played well and kept the Canucks in the game. If EP had scored instead of hitting the post in the last minute, Marky might have ended up with a "steal".

 

3. I don't think the back-to-back excuse works--at least not much, as a lot of guys did not play yesterday and the Canucks are at home. And, in the data, playing back to back is a bit of a disadvantage, but all that big.

 

4. So, what did go wrong? The D gave up quite a lot tonight. Hughes struggled and I think he tipped in one of the Arizona goals. The key to  his defensive play has been controlling the puck. The other team can't score if they don't have that puck. But it is a lot harder to control the puck in the NHL than in college. He is forced to defend a lot more. And most opposing forwards are bigger and stronger than him. Still, he should keep doing what he is doing and not retreat into a defensive shell or start playing "a simple game". If he is going to make it in the NHL he needs to play a creative game and he will improve quickly as he adjusts to the NHL game.

 

5. I think Myers also struggled in his own end quite a bit and he was responsible for one of the Arizona goals as he gave the puck away and lost the resulting footrace. Still I like his game as long as he is not asked to do too much.

 

6. And, while Beiga, Brisebois, and Chatfield all played hard, I think they all gave up a lot and got trapped in their own zone quite a lot. Edler was the best D by far. And the D will tighten up a lot with Benn and Tanev and Stecher back in there.

 

7. On to the forwards. The EP line scored a nice goal but I do not like the line of EP, Leivo, and Ferland. Yes they were the best Canuck line tonight but the line with EP is always (or almost always) going to be the best Canuck line. The question is - does playing with Ferland and Leivo maximize EP's value. I think the answer is no and it is related to EP's pre-game comments about not controlling the puck enough. Ferland plays a "simple game". That is okay and he can be the third guy on a line with EP and Boeser because Boeser, like EP, has a high hockey IQ and thinks the game a high level. He and EP complement each other and Ferland can be valuable in the corners, in front of the net, playing solid defence, and adding toughness. But with Leivo instead of Boeser on the line, EP just does not have enough complementary skill to work with. Obviously getting Boeser back is very important. 

 

8. Ok, finally the big questions marks -- what about JV, Gaudette, and Goldy. Everyone is saying this is a hard decision. I don't think it is. JV played poorly tonight and had a poor pre-season but he should be on the team, as Roger says. He does not have the inner drive or the hockey IQ to be a top 6 forward but he can be a decent 4th liner.  And, if put on waivers he would be picked up. It probably comes down to Gaudette vs. Goldy (assuming Motte makes the team and the Canucks go with 7 D for the time being while Fantenberg is injured).

 

Here is the comparison. Gaudette had a great camp, Goldy had a poor camp.  Goldy makes some good offensive plays every game. But he is not a good finisher. He does not seem to focus enough to actually bury the puck. And he is not consistent. He will make a good offensive play or have a good shift then disappear for a while. But the big problem is his defence. Tonight, on the Arizona short-handed goal, he could have stopped the goal but was coasting back toward the net instead of getting there before the goal-scorer. And, of course, as a winger he does not take face-offs, and he is a very soft player. His skating is good but not exceptional.

 

Gaudette is good defensively. He can play PK. He can potentially play shutdown. He can take key defensive zone faceoffs late in the game. He can play with an edge. And I would say he has more offensive skill than Goldy. He might not look as flashy but think he sees the game and thinks the game well.  He is also younger and is more likely to improve. He is taller and, as he fills out, will contribute more to physical game.  But most importantly, he has a great attitude. He always works hard and, like Horvat and EP and Boeser, is always trying to improve his game. That is the kind of team mentality you want.  And I don't think Goldy would be picked up off waivers at this time of year.

 

So my forwards are:

Miller, EP, Boeser (if he is healthy)

Leivo, Horvat, Ferland

Baertschi Gaudette Pearson

Eriksson Beagle Sutter

13th man: Motte

14th man: Virtanen

 

I don't this is what will happen. It is just what I would to.

 

 

I think the short handed goal allowed was Hughes fault. He was standing on the opposite side of the goalie just staring at him. He should’ve tied up the back checkers stick. 

 

Regarding Goldy and Virtanen if I were to choose between the two it’d be goldy. He’s got great offensive skill and could’ve easily had 3 assist the last 2 games just no finish from his line mates.Yes he makes defensive mistakes but so does Virtanen. Also in our current system we don’t have a skilled playmaker ready for the NHL besides goldy. We do though have multiple high energy guys who play physical and chip in here and there on offence. JV and Macewan basically play the same game and if Jake wasn’t a first round pick I’d take Macewan every day over him. Mac is bigger more physical, and very similar in production to JV. I think he makes Virtanen redundant. He’s been giving enough opportunities to prove his worth but still hasn’t shown anything. its time that he gets traded or waived.

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I am seriously worried about how Green coaches this team. We have the talent and it’s not translating to a cohesive on ice performance. I get that we have not seen a full opening day roster but the leash better be short on Green 

 

it does not help that his non violence Ghandi coaching style is getting our stars hurt. 

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4 hours ago, The Great 8 said:

I think the short handed goal allowed was Hughes fault. He was standing on the opposite side of the goalie just staring at him. He should’ve tied up the back checkers stick. 

 

Regarding Goldy and Virtanen if I were to choose between the two it’d be goldy. He’s got great offensive skill and could’ve easily had 3 assist the last 2 games just no finish from his line mates.Yes he makes defensive mistakes but so does Virtanen. Also in our current system we don’t have a skilled playmaker ready for the NHL besides goldy. We do though have multiple high energy guys who play physical and chip in here and there on offence. JV and Macewan basically play the same game and if Jake wasn’t a first round pick I’d take Macewan every day over him. Mac is bigger more physical, and very similar in production to JV. I think he makes Virtanen redundant. He’s been giving enough opportunities to prove his worth but still hasn’t shown anything. its time that he gets traded or waived.

Bear does everything that Goldy does and more.  Of course his injury history is a concern.  I doubt he gets picked up - waive him let him work on his game and call him up when injuries hit.  If he does get picked up well that’s just the way it is.  If he’s so good offensively and AG isn’t as good - how come he’s leading him this off season - and it’s not like he’s had any time with EP and Horvats line either.   Not to mention AG pedigree is pretty darn good too (Hobey Baker winner).  

 

Im all for trading JV if the return is ok (a second rounder).   If not then give him a short leash entering the season - we are thin on R wing as it is.  Like Zack - Id consider him our first call up if someone gets hurt on the fourth line.   AG should make the team even if it means we waive Goldy.  Motte and Schaller probably get waived too.  

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8 hours ago, Darius said:

I don’t think Jake is going anywhere.

 

its been mentioned before.  Forget his draft position.  He’s good value for a 15 goal scoring take way machine on the third line. 

 

Loui, schaller, Goldie ... none are safe.

 

Gaudette is a tough call.  Keep him at Center?  IMHO that will saddle Bo with more face off duty and less offensive deployment.  I don’t think Green will trust Gaud enough to free up Bo. 

 

Put it him on the wing?  Maybe not the best option for his long term develoment.

 

hate to say it.. I can see 88 starting in the AHL.

Why not keep him on the third line and move Sutter to the wing.  He can take the important face offs (Sutter) and help AG defensive game...putting him in the AHL isn’t the worse thing in the world, but he’s earned a spot.  Bear AG Sutter looks like a pretty good third line to me - JV sits in the box or gets fourth line duties.  Also maybe this keeps Sutter playing longer before he’s out - Pilates and AG that is.

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1 hour ago, EddieVedder said:

This is preseason.   2 preseasons ago Jake had 4 goals and 2 assists and looked like a top 6 guy.  People were more excited about him than they are Gaudette now.  Jake had 15 goals playing 3rd and 4th line minutes last year. 13 of those goals during even strength.  Our record when Jake scored was 13 wins 2 losses.  Do we really want to throw away an asset in Jake who at 22 years has already proven to be an NHL player.  Thank god none of you are managing this team.  Once again, this is preseason.  Gaudette has looked good but he looked way in over his head last year.  Lets see what he does in the regular season before we start throwing away assets.

I get your point but I still don't understand the optics of Jake not seemingly invested in what he is doing. Gaudette is invested.

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14 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

my wife likes salt and pepper wings so get a bag and put in some baking powder, salt, pepper and toss the wings.

bake at 250 for 1/2 hour then heat oven to 450 and bake another 50 minutes turning after 25 minutes. you need to bake on a pan that can drain and doesnt stick.

 

for hot wings just toss in baking powder and salt. bake at 250 for 1/2 hour then raise temp to 450. after 1/2 hour toss in a mixture of 2:1 franks buffalo sauce to melted butter and add a tbsp brown sugar, then bake another 1/2 hour.

thanks, thats really similar to why i do. The baking powder makes all the difference. I bake them at 275 for about 3 hours - low and slow man, renders out most of the fat and you get a nice crispy skin. 

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11 minutes ago, Tracksuit said:

What if any are the implications of gaudette making the team and expansion? Just curious if it changes his status. 

 

Quote

Only players with more than two years of professional experience — NHL or AHL as defined in the collective bargaining agreement — were included in the draft.

AHL counts as 'professional experience' as well.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Why not keep him on the third line and move Sutter to the wing.  He can take the important face offs (Sutter) and help AG defensive game...putting him in the AHL isn’t the worse thing in the world, but he’s earned a spot.  Bear AG Sutter looks like a pretty good third line to me - JV sits in the box or gets fourth line duties.  Also maybe this keeps Sutter playing longer before he’s out - Pilates and AG that is.

Agreed, Sutter on the wing seems to make sense given the emergence of AG. Most of Sutter's offense comes off the rush and he is an offensive black hole in the center. AG will have some rough games as he continues to develop but it appears as though time has come to give him a shot.

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Goldy needs to be on the top 6.... somewhere. He's got such a great passing/playmaking skill set he's a waste on the bottom 6. 

 

It looks like Green is giving a Baer-Gaudette-maybe Loui/maybe Sutter type of line real consideration, either of which is good for different reasons.

 

So if Gaudettte stays, and he's earned it, I think the fallout is losing Goldy. But maybe thats OK, the kid is never going to be in our top 6 and he's going to suck on the bottom 6. 

 

Let Goldy go to waivers, we're not going to get anything for him and I'd like to see him succeed somewhere. i hate it when teams hang on to tweeners too long and get nothing for them anyway. Set Goldy free. 

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