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Ossi Vaananen

[Waivers] September 30th - 39 players (Baertschi, Goldobin, Biega)

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Just now, mll said:

Nashville's 3rd line with Bonino was solid but their 2nd line was dreadful.  This only paints a picture of the bottom of the lineup.  Colorado had nothing past their top-line but they were just so dominant.  The Blues were break-even so anything they get out of their top-6 helps them.  The more you are in the red the more your other top-2 lines have to compensate.  

 

 

I know I was just kidding around with you, I appreciate your posts. 

 

But any chart with Sutter in it last year needs to be scrapped. He played the entire year - such as it was - injured. Schaller coming off wrist surgery. I don't think you can take anything of value for this years team from that chart, or really anything with Sutter in it from last year. 

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Now that Gaudette is being kept for the time being.... anyone knows if he's comfortable playing as RW?? I prefer having Sutter take most of the FO's.

 

 

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I just wanna know why the NHL dropped the Oilers starting lineup instead of the waiver list.

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10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

As ON was kind enough to point out below, Roussel also did that 38.5% ozone starts in a hard minute, match up role. Baer would be expected to match that production in the bottom 6, in a similar role (vs his cushier, top 6 with 64.8% ozone starts that he enjoyed last year).

 

So Baer at 0.54PPG in a cushy top 6 role vs Roussel at 0.48PPG in a much harder match up (and PK) role. I know who I'm picking for the bottom 6 role. Seems the team does too.

 

 

See above.

Well you're using stats from Roussel's career year at 29 years old. I think it's safe to say that he's hard pressed to match that moving forward. He sits at 0.36PPG over his career compared to Baertschi's 0.48 PPG. Also, Roussel is brought in to be gritty, physical, hard to play against, gets under the opponents skin and penalty kill - which he can do just fine on the 4th line. He takes over Motte's spot, not Baertschi's.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, Roussel isn't back for another few months. So when he finally comes back, they can evaluate who's spot he's going to take then. I actually doubt that JB and co even had Roussel in mind when they decided to waive Baertschi. It's just a narrative fans are trying to push as far as I'm concerned. It makes 0 sense to me that they would have Baertschi and Roussel in the same bucket - and then choose Roussel over Baertschi when Roussel is months away from practicing.

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Just now, Virtanen#18 said:

Now that Gaudette is being kept for the time being.... anyone knows if he's comfortable playing as RW?? I prefer having Sutter take most of the FO's.

 

 

He doesn't play wing and can't even remember playing the position.

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I’m wondering if putting Baer and Goldy on waivers now might be in hopes they might actually get claimed? 

If they get claimed were still on the hook for partial amount of thr salary correct?

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1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

I just wanna know why the NHL dropped the Oilers starting lineup instead of the waiver list.

I actually saw a tweet that said if they claimed four forwards their top six would be better than what they currently have. 

 

It’s funny because it’s 100% true LOL

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3 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

If they get claimed were still on the hook for partial amount of thr salary correct?

No. If they get picked up, the team picking them has full salary/cap hit. They basically fully assume the contract.

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Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I know I was just kidding around with you, I appreciate your posts. 

 

But any chart with Sutter in it last year needs to be scrapped. He played the entire year - such as it was - injured. Schaller coming off wrist surgery. I don't think you can take anything of value for this years team from that chart, or really anything with Sutter in it from last year. 

It's by differential - total minus Pettersson and Horvat.  Sutter, Beagle, Granlund, Gaudette are captured by differential not by adding their specific numbers.  That's why I point out that Sutter only played 26 games and Gaudette was a rookie.  So you hope that those numbers improve with a healthy Sutter.  

 

Weber was one of the best defenders in the league yet Nashville moved him.  In the playoffs they noticed that they were spending too much time defending with him on the ice and as good as he is defensively if you are just stuck in your own end you will get scored on.  Poile explained that if they spend more than 50% of the time in the o-zone they feel they are more likely to win the game than not.  Teams are making a similar calculation now re the 3 scoring line approach.   

 

 

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14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They don't need him on the PP. They're full up without him.

 

They do however need some players to PK until Roussel returns.

Well luckily Schaller cant do either well. I would prefer MacEwan to Schaller, at least he is physical and will probably throw down more. 

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3 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

Well you're using stats from Roussel's career year at 29 years old. I think it's safe to say that he's hard pressed to match that moving forward. He sits at 0.36PPG over his career compared to Baertschi's 0.48 PPG. Also, Roussel is brought in to be gritty, physical, hard to play against, gets under the opponents skin and penalty kill - which he can do just fine on the 4th line. He takes over Motte's spot, not Baertschi's.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, Roussel isn't back for another few months. So when he finally comes back, they can evaluate who's spot he's going to take then. I actually doubt that JB and co even had Roussel in mind when they decided to waive Baertschi. It's just a narrative fans are trying to push as far as I'm concerned. It makes 0 sense to me that they would have Baertschi and Roussel in the same bucket - and then choose Roussel over Baertschi when Roussel is months away from practicing.

Nope, Roussel's a 3rd line player. You highly underrate him. That he can score, at a slightly diminished rate comparitively, under far harder, less ideal  conditions WHILE ALSO being 'gritty, physical, hard to play against gets under the opponents skin and penalty kills' is exactly why he'll have that spot instead.

 

No, since we need someone to replace Roussel's ability to PK, match up and be hard to play against, we kept those players around.

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1 minute ago, mll said:

It's by differential - total minus Pettersson and Horvat.  Sutter, Beagle, Granlund, Gaudette are captured by differential not by adding their specific numbers.  That's why I point out that Sutter only played 26 games and Gaudette was a rookie.  So you hope that those numbers improve with a healthy Sutter.  

 

Weber was one of the best defenders in the league yet Nashville moved him.  In the playoffs they noticed that they were spending too much time defending with him on the ice and as good as he is defensively if you are just stuck in your own end you will get scored on.  Poile explained that if they spend more than 50% of the time in the o-zone they feel they are more likely to win the game than not.  Teams are making a similar calculation now re the 3 scoring line approach.   

 

 

I'm not sure moving on from Baer really changes our 3rd line into just another matchup line tho. A healthy Sutter did score 17 goals. AG looks like he could contribute, its hard to say how many but lets be optimistic and pencil him in for 10. Jake adds another 15 maybe with size and speed too. 

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12 minutes ago, mll said:

The Canucks apparently did not do particularly well last season compared to the rest of the league when their top 2 Cs were not on the ice.  

 

And how shocking that would be when Sutter plays hobbles through 26 games, Beagle plays 57,  Edler plays 56 games, Tanev 55, Roussel 65.....

 

12 minutes ago, mll said:

 Most teams talk of how the best way to defend is to play in the offensive zone but you need to be able to make plays and maintain possession to force the other team to defend.

 

 

"Most teams" don't 'talk' about anything of the sort.

And conversely, you can't maintain possession when you can't regain it - when you're chasing the play in your own zone, etc.

'The best defense is a good offense' is no more a truism than 'defense wins championships.'

 

This 'out-dated' talk is new age nonsense at the point it pretends to be any less reductive -  it is ironically no more 'analytical' than it's predecessors.   It's every bit as 'unsophistocated' as believing that a traditional shutdown 3rd line is the way to go - it's simply dressed in in-vogue, 'new NHL' fashion, where a youth culture of hockey writers believes that skill and scoring is going to replace 'defensive hockey'.  The irony is that as speed and skill have evolved, so has the need to defend - to counter with more highly evolved defensive forwards (that part of the game has evolved every bit as much from the days of 1980s pond hockey) - and trying to out pond-hockey your opponent is not the only, or obvious, way of getting an edge on your opponent.

 

It's a two-way game, period - there are advantages and disadvantages to either setup - their effectiveness in either case has everything to do with being able to play to their strengths.

 

It's ironic - that in an age of goalpost chasing, so many people are failing to see the degree to which things actually 'stay the same' - for example, if you listened to the new age analytics crowd, the NHL has also reached the pmd age - where the traditional shutdown or '3rd pairing' defenseman is facing relative extinction - and yet the SCC blueline was made up of Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Parayko, Edmondson, Bortuzzo, Dunn.  It takes a balance - and it takes depth = there is nothing obvious about 'evolving' towards simply reversing the side of the dualism you are falling on.  That is a logical fail - and hardly 'analytical'.

 

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5 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

Thinking on it....some of these moves might just be cap related (Bae) rather than how useful said player might be.

Lots of factors.

 

I think primarily . Sven has been replaced on PP 2 and can't play PK.   Bubble guy for top 6 and can't play bottom 6 effectively...

 

Basically , Sven doesn't offer the club flexability......  I remember when Burrows first made the club...  I think he told club he could play any role they would give him......

Sven needed to grow his game and evolve.  He didn't.  So its see you later, don't let the door hit your butt on the say out.  Thanks for the memories. 

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10 minutes ago, xereau said:

Tippett: Oilers' roster is evolving, but it's not done yet.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/tippett-oilers-roster-is-evolving-but-it-s-not-done-yet~1792744

 

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TLDR/W:  Oilers will build a quarter of their roster from last day waivers :bigblush:

 

Jurko, Nygard, Granlund and Khaira - they'd probably have to be asleep not to claim Baertschi imo - and they'd have the cap if they waive one of their AHL bubble players.

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1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Question.

How may teams need a 1st or 2nd LW and have enough cap to spend on Baertschi?

Must be a small list

ANA, CBJ, OTT. EDM if the shunt two more guys in to the AHL.

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not sure moving on from Baer really changes our 3rd line into just another matchup line tho. A healthy Sutter did score 17 goals. AG looks like he could contribute, its hard to say how many but lets be optimistic and pencil him in for 10. Jake adds another 15 maybe with size and speed too. 

I would like to think so, but I just don't see any skill or playmaking on that 3rd line, I don't think it will work with 3 shooters.

 

Although Miller is a playmaker and Bo has skill, I'm not sold on them with Pearson either. I'm fine with our top line and the 4th line (if Schaller can play with some consistency unlike last year), but I am a bit worried about the middle 6.

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