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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Edmonton Oilers | Oct. 02, 2019

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-Vintage Canuck-

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1 minute ago, BrockBoester said:

Two points in October are worth the same as two points in April, though

Easy to argue that as a 'perspective thing'. From Jan-April teams really gotta' deliver, irrespective of their mid-season ranking. I'd say it's more important in the early days to build a cohesive team, & view this long season-slog as a marathon(yeah, we're both employing the old cliches here). StLoo is the extreme example(of inspiration), being horrible right up until January.

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1 hour ago, Cup2022 said:

Over 40 point last year  at 5vs5

How much of that was in the first half of the season?

 

Point is I’m seeing a tendency here. Ever since the second half of last season, which is when most teams were starting to zero in on him, he’s had trouble carrying the play 5v5. It’s continued through the preseason and now into the first game of the season. He’s not being given any room out there and so far he hasn’t been able to compensate for it. If we’re going to be successful this year and going forward, he’s going to have to find a way to correct that. You can’t have your top line constantly on it’s heels and expect to win too many games.

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18 minutes ago, Grape said:

My response here has nothing to do with this quote btw. The GDT got locked so I'm responding to your argument against Hughes.

 

Here's my take regarding your "good defense leads directly to good offense" point. I would like to argue that it's closer to the opposite. Good offense is the best form of good defense. The Sedins were never good defenders. However, they were consistently statistically the best defenders on the team for the pure reason that they controlled so much of the game when they were on the ice. There is a reason why a guy like Gudbranson, while being able to "defend," was complete dog****: because when he was on the ice, we could not control the puck at a high rate. There is a reason why the best offensive defensemen are seen as elite players, while the best defensive defensemen are usually just seen as elite defensive players. 

 

You mentioned "Chances intercepted, cut off, saved" these are things that Hughes has always been good at. While the "fancy stickwork in the offensive zone" as you described with Goldobin, is something that doesn't describe Hughes at all. So while your arguing against Hughes here, I'm not sure you even brought up any of his weaknesses. Not sure this was relevant to your argument. 

 

Again, this team has desperately lacked offensive creativity on the backend. It's one of the biggest reasons we've been awful the past few seasons. It's paramount that it gets fixed. When you have a guy that can clearly help out big time, you don't just keep him in the AHL because he's subpar defensively. His net production is still going to be positive, especially on the Canucks. 

 

Edit: a main reason for net positive production is due to the fact that defense is undoubtedly more of a team effort: the team can shadow Hughes. A player like Hughes alone can generate many more goals, but it will usually take more than just Hughes (see GWG tonight) for there to be an additional goal against. This is the reason that, as I said, the best offensive defensemen are seen as elite players, while the best defensive defensemen are usually just seen as elite defensive players. That being said, I would be very patient with him as he's not going to be anywhere close to Boeser/EP in their rookie years. I think Hughes is going to be very up and down and frustrating at times like he was at Michigan. But I think the thought that he isn't ready is crazy because he already brings so much to the team. 

The ‘elite’ players who are good offensive defencemen are all round good defencemen who are good at generating offense. 

 

Take for example, Brent Burns. I would not call him an elite player. He’s a fantastic offensive player, but is unable to ‘cut it’ defensively. This cost the sharks in the playoffs. He puts points up, but the playoffs require more than pond hockey offense. Brent Burns at least has the advantage of size, so he can cheat a bit in other ways. Tampa Bay last year, various presidents’ trophyists in years past. Mega offense, lots of show. Playoff time comes and it’s all gone. So if you’re an offensive player whose ‘strength’ is controlling the play, what happens when you no longer have the time and space to control the play? 

 

We got one good run from the Sedins. Up until 2011 (and after), it was a maximum of second round disappointment for all their ‘play controlling’. 

 

The best ‘defenders’ are not just offense  drivers. They are PLAY drivers. Duncan Keith (boo!) was a play driver. He was an elite defenceman. Doughty drove the play. Guys like that get it done at BOTH ends, they turn defence to offense. 

 

If you want to compare Quinn’s abilities to “eite players”, that’s your benchmark. How does he rank against them at their age? About 40 pounds lighter and 2+ inches shorter to start with, so he’s got a hell of a lot to make up for in other areas.

 

I’ll save you the trip down HockeyDB lane. They weren't great either at his age. Keith broke out at 23/24 years old. Doughty at 22/23. Before that they were minus machines on not great teams. Which is exactly why I advocate getting him out of Vancouver. He’s 19 years old and expected to carry the load of the 2nd pair of a ravenous fanbase with absolutely toxic media. It’ll ruin him like those oiler draft picks. Like Blackburn in NY. And probably a dozen other ultra high draft picks (cam barker as well as I type this) that got so much pressure to be great right away. Every team thinks their guy is different, their team is different. 

 

And then what do we get. We get 5th overalls who cant even anchor the 4th line because we were different, he can handle it. So we keep him up to ‘grow from his mistakes’... like everybody else on the Yakupov list. 

 

 

The AHL in the first 20 or so games is the “almost NHL” - where the tweeners who are probably almost good enough ish are playing. See: the waiver list of the past 4 days. They’re still pros, some with hundreds of NHL games behind them. Learn against them in the Dev league away from the media, the fanbase, everything. He’s 19- I dont expect him to be perfect, not even close. But it takes a blind person to miss the glaring deficiencies currently impacting his game. Even Lidstrom was -5 once. Nobody’s perfect, never will be. 

 

That said, standing by good defence leads to good offense. What I mean, to be Captain obvious: He didn’t have much of a chance to score in transition when Connor buried that puck in the net as the play kind of died there. If his defence doesnt improve, a lot more plays will die with the puck in our net, just like the Sedins when they did eventually turn a puck over and it went the other way. 

 

 

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The Canucks' bottom six is terribly organized. If Baertschi and Gaudette are in there instead of Schaller and Eriksson, this game goes another way. You can't survive in the modern NHL with two scoring lines. Benning and Green need to get their act together as they have the pieces to do it.

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4 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Fire Green 

 

- terrible lineup choice

- zero in game management
- no line matchups

- lost a lead in the third 

 

this guy will not take the team to the playoffs 

 

 

Continuous progression is better than delayed perfection ( Mark Twain ) patience you must have my young padawan ( yoda ) 

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I'm not quite sure how Leivo & in particular Pearson looked dangerous.

 

And Sutter did not? Line shuffling and PP time I guess. Boeser either, rotating the puck to Edler aside. The 2knd PP really looked engaged, pressure to the corner, pressure to the front of the net. Need that work rate versus pretty passing. Maybe the first unit needs someone who just wants it more.

 

And too much dump and chase 5 on 5, with the bottom 6.

 

We need to go full bottle puck possession. And wow, is Hughes ever an asset in that regard!

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3 hours ago, MikeyD said:

The stick throw was after the goal was already scored haha. But the original call was a no brainer. Dove for his stick, grabbed it. Clearly hooked it out from him and you could see his hand holding it the entire time. 

Aye cheers Mikey. 

Slegr pointed it out as well.

I saw him grabbing the stick and no call :angry:

I just saw Smith throwing the stick in replay,.. did my sums 2+2=5.... :rolleyes:

 

Should still not have been missed. It was a key moment in the game... 

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40 minutes ago, ItalianCanuck1 said:

I just want to forget as quick as possible the result and put the focus on one individual performance. 

 

Tanner Pearson was a beast tonight. All over the ice. Great player.

Been saying this all summer... He is in the thick of thing constantly. Unlucky not to score a few more yesterday... 

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I’m a little concerned at the way we’re generating opportunities. The whole dump&chase game doesn’t seem like it aligns with the way we’ve built the team. We’re pretty terrible at working the boards. Besides the second line, you’re looking at guys like boeser, leivo, schaller, virtanen to come out with the puck or make a decent pass from the corners. Can’t help but sweat a little when pette gets anywhere near the boards.

 

 

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2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I was also a little confused by not seeing Pettersson's speed, but to be honest, he turns to quickly, he is leaving Boeser and Ferland

behind. So he slows it down.

At least until I saw his contract?

 

I was keen on Zuccarello over Ferland. Or, wishful thinking, Panarin. Don't get me wrong. I was very excited to add a good player, M Ferland.

 

But I like your observation about speed. To me speeeeeeed & skill in a 3rd winger with Petey & Boes would have uncorked a whole new game style. A whole new level of offensive potential?   

 

Especially with Hughes having joined us.

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