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The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

JM_

By JM_
in Off-Topic General

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Duodenum Canucks Third-Line

Duodenum

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In current transfer payments there’s a lot of rule set up that determines on how much each province gives.  It’s not simply you make the most, you pay the most that people love to parrot so much. would call it.  

 

First, we have fiscal stabilization that pays up to $60 per capita to provinces that suddenly lose more than 5% of their revenue.  It’s why a province like Ontario still received $1 billion despite being a have province.  Alberta should also fall into that category since lost more than 5% the last few years but here’s the kicker, fiscal stabilization doesn’t count for natural resource revenue unless it loses over 50%.  So Alberta gets next to no benefit for that. 

 

But where Natural resources don’t account for fiscal stabilization, they sure do count for equalization.  With Equalization payments it’s not just the personal income taxes of individuals that so many here love to parrot. There are five different revenue streams taken into consideration,  personal income taxes, business income taxes, consumption taxes, property taxes and Alberta’s biggest stream natural resource revenues.  Because Alberta is able to generate large amounts of revenue from it’s natural resource it will always be on the hook for equalization payments, even if the personal and business income taxes drop below other provinces. 

 

The formula to calculated the “how much” is in place for 3 year segments.  It’s set up this way to allow for changes in the market.  With the way Alberta has been hurting in the down turn of oil the last four years, you would assume this the ideal reason for adjustment.  But Trudeau approved the current plan to remain the same for another 3 years in 2018. 

 

It’s a system that has some major flaws that many of you are not willing to admit.  One example would be A province like Quebec has government owned hydro,  they can technically artificially keep prices low to bring in lows revenue that in turn makes the province look poorer than they actually are = more equalization money.  It’s a win/win for them as lower hydro looks good on a provincial political level but also helps keep their ability to generate revenue lower than it actually should be. 

 

This is why Albertans want change, we are working on an uphill battle pulling other have not provinces up the mountain with us.  And to make matters worse, many of these provinces are trying to make life even more difficult for us by attempting to hurt our natural resource revenue. 

Hmm, I don't know much about this fiscal stabilisation. Only read about it yesterday. It does seem to be flawed. Anybody have an argument against this part here?

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Warhippy Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Warhippy

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

More pipeline to the BC coast... BC says no.

Pipeline going East.... Ontario and Quebec says no.

Maybe have oil sent to the port of Churchill.... Manitoba says no. 

Create a national strategy that had pipelines going coast to coast with upgraders in every province and sell to Canadians at a below market cost...Alberta said no

Seems to me that my added line is where this all started.  almost 40 years ago.  Instead of working with the nation, working with the Americans was their preferred idea.

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Alflives Canucks Hall-of-Famer

Alflives

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3 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

:bigblush:

 

but.....

 

a comprehensive assessment

should include alternate facts ?

where are those ?

Like the fact that the western provinces, because of far less population, get ripped off by the feds.  How is that even arguable?  We pay more into the feds coffers than we get back by A LOT.  I wonder, when the time comes where we are in need, if the feds support us with similar "fairness" they now support Quebec and Ontario?  Of course we all know the answer.  The feds will support the regions where they secure the power of government - Ontario and Quebec.  

Maybe Ontario and Quebec should get the hell out, and form their own country?   

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Jim Alberta gave 49 billion and received back 22 billion for a difference of 27 billion in 2016.

Same answer as above 

and? so what? people paid their taxes. It doesn't mean that you get an exact amount back.

 

You're acting like people working in Alberta deserve to get a disproportionate amount of money back than someone earning the same in another province. You've never really answered why that should be so.

 

Answer this for  me please: why should an Albertan get more than a per capita share of federal money back? 

 

I'd really like to hear your explanation for this. 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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aGENT Canucks Hall-of-Famer

aGENT

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22 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

and? so what? people paid their taxes. It doesn't mean that you get an exact amount back.

 

You're acting like people working in Alberta deserve to get a disproportionate amount of money back than someone earning the same in another province. You've never really answered why that should be so.

 

Answer this for  me please: why should an Albertan get more than a per capita share of federal money back? 

 

I'd really like to hear your explanation for this. 

Waiting-Memes-52918-aad4877.jpg

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ForsbergTheGreat Canucks Franchise Player

ForsbergTheGreat

Posted
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1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Seems to me that my added line is where this all started.  almost 40 years ago.  Instead of working with the nation, working with the Americans was their preferred idea.

I’ve already pointed out to you why the original NEP was terrible for Alberta. There’s no denying it or arguing for it. 
 

Why are you still going on about this?

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ForsbergTheGreat Canucks Franchise Player

ForsbergTheGreat

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

@ForsbergTheGreat I really like how you very clearly explained equalization but my friend you are on your own I give up explaining it to hip and Jim. It's Jimmy who really shocks me given his education level.

Yeah, I’m at that point too, i mean how many times does hip need be to explained that the NEP Trudeau Sr implemented was terrible, not even the biggest liberal lovers defend it.  Even the man who put the plan in place said what the intensions were. yet he’s still going on about how Alberta throughout great opportunity. Lol. 
 

With transfer payments it is a complex calculation, But they get so focused on trying to simplify it that they miss very important context,  Even when it’s pointed out over and over they choose to ignoring.  I think it’s because people love to try and look for ways to justified taking jabs at our great province.  Similar to what fans do with rival NHL teams.  But in the end it really comes down to an obsession people have about Alberta.

 

For example, look at Jimmy, he had to go out of his way and create a brand new thread on a topic that has already been discussed over the moon about. 

What good does this thread do on a Canucks hockey board? It accomplishes nothing, no minds will be swayed, no good debate will spark, and no offense but it’s on a very biased environment that wont have too many objections to the opinion.  I mean what’s the goal that he’s trying to accomplish?  He could have achieve the same result bringing up this topic amongst his own peer group, or even PM the very same members who discuss it and achieved the same result.  It’s a pointless thread to create.... again when the topics being discussed elsewhere.....topics that lead by him.  Honestly It’s purely a way to satisfy his fixation on Alberta.  

 

It’s like that friend who’s went through a break up and doesn’t shut up about how his ex’s new BF is so dumb.  Move on buddy it’s getting creepy.   

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

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3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Seems to me that my added line is where this all started.  almost 40 years ago.  Instead of working with the nation, working with the Americans was their preferred idea.

funny that. It really still seems to be, as a landlocked New Republic of Albertastan would be even more dependent on the US.

 

I'm not surprised you're getting pushback on this given how deep this part of the myth runs. 

 

 

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kingofsurrey Canucks Franchise Player

kingofsurrey

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12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Just another wrinkle on it - why is Alberta so mad at Quebec, when SK and MN take far more per capita than Quebec does? (https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E#show/hide)

 

In fact, in 2017, Alberta took back more per capita in federal transfers than BC did. 

 

 

In_Brief.jpg

I am sick of those free loading Albertans.  Bunch of slackers....... 

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