[Discussion] Canuck’s Prospect Rankings #1-10

[Dats hockey]

5 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

Madden plays with more of an edge to his game and not near as high offensive hockey IQ. Although his defence is far superior to Kane in my opinion. Kane is a hard comparable, Id say a Gallagher lite type player offensively with better defence.

I wouldn’t cap this kid, he’s just coming into his own

[Canucks Curse]

1. Madden

2. Podz

3.Hogz

4.OJ

5.Tryamkin

6.Dipietro

7.Rafferty

8.Lind

9. Mcdonaugh

10.Rathbone

 

HM woo, Petrus 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Canucks Curse

[alucard]

Tyramkin does not count as a prospect?

[Master 112]

#TeamRathbone

[Dats hockey]

16 hours ago, Stamkos said:

I haven't seen much of Madden, admittedly. Does he have the IQ, hand speed or acceleration that Kane has? If he's missing any of those, his game could be difficult to transfer to NHL. 

 

There's a reason that there's only one Patty Kane: his play style is so difficult to play in the modern day NHL. 

He doesn’t have everything Kane has now BUT the way he plays makes you think that someday he can turn into that

[dpn1]

I remember in an interview with John Madden when Tyler was drafted and he said that Tyler was every much as good defensively as he was along with an offensive flair he never had himself.  Seems about right.

[Darius]

Dont want to create a new thread for this since it looks relevant to this thread.

 

This is Button's latest NHL affiliated prospect list.  In the recent past we have had Boeser, Hughes, Pettersson rank pretty high on Craig's list.  

 

Top Canuck prospect is ranked at 14th...we have 3 in the top 50....compare that to Edmonton and Calgary that have jack squat 0 in the top 50 :-)

 

Also interesting that when he ranks the prospects for each Canadian team Rafferty is 4th for the Canucks...nice pickup by JB.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/russian-players-dominate-top-spots-in-tsn-s-ranking-of-nhl-affiliated-prospects-1.1424251

 

 

TOP 50 NHL-AFFILIATED PROSPECTS

 

 

2019	2020	NAME	AGE	NHL TEAM	2019-20 TEAM	GP	G	P
10	1	Igor Shesterkin, G	24	NYR	Hartford (AHL)	23	1.93	.932
2	2	Grigori Denisenko, RW	19	Fla	Yaroslavl (KHL)	27	4	8
	3	Bowen Byram, D	18	Col	Vancouver (WHL)	27	3	19
14	4	Kirill Kaprizov, LW/RW	22	Min	Moscow (KHL)	39	19	37
19	5	Alexander Romanov, D	20	Mtl	Moscow (KHL)	33	0	4
26	6	Rasmus Sandin, D	19	Tor	Toronto (AHL)	19	2	12
	7	Jan Jenik, C	19	Ari	Hamilton (OHL)	27	22	56
	8	Trevor Zegras, C	18	Ana	Boston U (NCAA)	16	5	17
	9	Dylan Cozens, C	18	Buf	Lethbridge (WHL)	30	20	46
	10	Cole Caufield, RW	19	Mtl	Wisconsin (NCAA)	18	12	20
	11	Spencer Knight, G	18	Fla	Boston C (NCAA)	15	1.73	.940
	12	Ivan Prosvetov, G	20	Ari	Tuscon (AHL)	15	2.38	.931
9	13	Ilya Sorokin, G	24	NYI	Moscow (KHL)	29	1.62	.930
	14	Vasili Podkolzin, RW	18	Van	St. Petersburg (VHL)	16	3	8
	15	Alex Turcotte, C	18	Los	Wisconsin (NCAA)	16	6	15
	16	Arthur Kaliyev, RW	18	Los	Hamilton (OHL)	33	31	62
	17	Nick Robertson, RW	18	Tor	Peterborough (OHL)	23	23	37
	18	Samuel Fagemo, RW	19	Los	Frölunda (SHL)	20	6	11
	19	Connor McMichael, C	18	Wsh	London (OHL)	27	25	59
	20	Thomas Harley, D	18	Dal	Mississauga (OHL)	37	16	39
	21	Ville Heinola, D	18	Wpg	Lukko (SM Liiga)	21	2	7
	22	Nils Lundqvist, D	19	NYR	Lulea (SHL)	24	4	17
	23	Justus Annunen, G	19	Col	Karpat (SM Liiga)	13	1.26	.947
11	24	Erik Brannstrom, D	20	Ott	Belleville (AHL)	6	1	8
	25	Moritz Seider, D	18	Det	Grands Rapids (AHL)	28	1	12
	26	Peyton Krebs, C	18	VGK	Winnipeg (WHL)	17	3	22
	27	Alexander Khovanov, C	19	Min	Moncton (QMJHL)	26	20	53
	28	Matias Macelli, LW	19	Ari	Tampere (SM Liiga)	26	10	25
	29	Joel Hofer, G	19	StL	Portland (WHL)	27	1.81	.937
40	30	Owen Tippett, RW	20	Fla	Springfield (AHL)	38	14	30
	31	Victor Soderstrom, D	18	Ari	Brynas (SHL)	15	2	9
	32	Lassi Thomson, D	19	Ott	Tampere (SM Liiga)	23	6	10
37	33	Morgan Frost, C	20	Phi	Lehigh Valley (AHL)	19	6	14
13	34	Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, G	20	Buf	Cincinnati (ECHL)	18	2.08	.919
	35	Nils Hoglander, LW	19	Van	Rogle (SHL)	19	6	9
1	36	Vitali Kravtsov, RW	20	NYR	Hartford (AHL)	13	2	4
33	37	Alexander Alexeyev, D	20	Wsh	Hershey (AHL)	35	1	14
	38	Nolan Foote, LW	19	Tam	Kelowna (WHL)	25	15	33
	39	Hugo Alnefelt, G	18	Tam	HV71 (SHL)	8	1.95	.920
	40	Tyler Madden, C/RW	20	Van	Northeastern (NCAA)	20	15	29
	41	Phillip Tomasino, C/RW	18	Nsh	Niagara (OHL)	36	22	57
	42	Jacob Bernard-Docker, D	19	Ott	North Dakota (NCAA)	17	3	14
	43	K'Andre Miller, D	19	NYR	Wisconsin (NCAA)	18	6	11
	44	Josh Norris, C	20	Ott	Belleville (AHL)	34	19	32
	45	Jack Studnicka, C	20	Bos	Providence (AHL)	36	14	26
	46	Jack Dugan, C	21	VGK	Providence (NCAA)	21	7	37
	47	Liam Foudy, LW	19	Clb	London (OHL)	20	13	26
	48	Ty Dellandrea, C	19	Dal	Flint (OHL)	27	17	37
44	49	Akil Thomas, C/RW	20	Los	Niagara (OHL)	27	15	44
	50	Shane Pinto, C/RW	19	Ott	North Dakota (NCAA)	18	9	15

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Darius

[Master 112]

I think Craig ranking Kole 'Why Is No One Taking' Lind 5th on our list of prospects makes me think it's somewhat a stat-watcher's list?

[Ray_Cathode]

 

 

1) Brogan Rafferty

2) Jack Rathbone 

3) Nils Hoglander

4) Vasily Podkolzin

5) Tyler Madden

6) Olli Juolevi

7) Kole Lind

8) Michael DiPietro

9) Zac MacEwen

10)Tyler Graovac

11) Jett Woo

12) Carson Focht 

13) Lukas Jasek

14) Linus Karlson 

15) Aiden McDonough

16) Teves

17) Brisebois 

18) Sautner

19) Lockwood

20) PetrusPalmu

21) Jonah Gadjovich

22) Silovs

[Kanukfanatic]

21 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

 

 

1) Brogan Rafferty

2) Jack Rathbone 

3) Nils Hoglander

4) Vasily Podkolzin

5) Tyler Madden

6) Olli Juolevi

7) Kole Lind

8) Michael DiPietro

9) Zac MacEwen

10)Tyler Graovac

11) Jett Woo

12) Carson Focht 

13) Lukas Jasek

14) Linus Karlson 

15) Aiden McDonough

16) Teves

17) Brisebois 

18) Sautner

19) Lockwood

20) PetrusPalmu

21) Jonah Gadjovich

22) Silovs

Haha...wow.

 

You actually think Rafferty is a better prospect (even though he is already 24 yrs old) than Rathbone, Hogs, Pods, and Madden?  

[Ray_Cathode]

1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Haha...wow.

 

You actually think Rafferty is a better prospect (even though he is already 24 yrs old) than Rathbone, Hogs, Pods, and Madden?  

I’m not claiming that my ranking is objectively correct by the standards that others are using, but I will try to explain and justify the standards I used in my list.

 

Yes.  He is that good (2 more assists tonight) and he is that good NOW. Most of the prospects on this list we will have to wait for before they can make significant contributions. We probably won’t see Podkolzin for a couple of years, maybe Hoglander next year. Not many players are like Hughes or Pettersson that can come a year after being drafted and improve your roster immediately. Not many players come in and show the dramatic improvement of Rafferty. Remember that Rafferty was only about a 0.60 point per game player his last year in college, when he got to the Canucks last year he showed dramatic improvement in just two games - something I wrote on CDC about at that time. I also wrote previously about his continued rapid improvement even during this season, in Utica - he had 1 goal and 7 assists over the first 15 AHL games, he has 4g and 22 assists over his past 22 games; which reflects an improvement from about .5 points per game to about 1.2 points per game.  I have watched those games, he is visually dramatically improved. He thinks the game like an NHLer, the smarter the players he plays with, the better he plays.  The difference between him and Juolevi is stark, and Juolevi is still a viable prospect - where Juolevi needs to get to, Rafferty is already at.  You really need to watch Rafferty’s first two NHL games again and isolate on him - he got better with each period he played. In the third period of his last game he was paired with Hughes - they had the puck ALL the time. 

 

In addition, I was one of the guys pushing Rathbone from the opening of last year’s season and explaining why, after Rathbone’s great start last season, that his offence tailed off. He started last season paired with Fox, but later was moved to the second unit because of his defensive prowess and they needed him to shut down the opposition’s best unit. 

 

Remember that Gaudette was the Hobey Baker winner, which means that he was a very highly regarded prospect, and much more physically mature than either of Hoglander, Podkolzin or Madden, and he struggled his first season. This season, he is greatly improved and looks ready to take over the third line centre role next season.

 

When I look at prospects, I look at what their value is now as well as their ultimate value. In addition, I rate quality defenders higher than forwards because they can have a greater effect on the game, especially when they generally play more minutes than forwards, and I rate defencemen that can play outstanding O and D more than D whose contribution is limited to one or the other. Secondly, I consider centres of greater value than wingers.  Goaltenders I find much more difficult to judge, I’ll leave it to goaltenders to judge goaltenders’ relative value. 

 

 

[Outsiders]

1. Hog

2.Pod

3. Madden

4.Lind

5. Juolevi

6.Rathbone

7. Mikey D

 

 

Left Rafferty and Tryamkin off due to age

[Kanukfanatic]

8 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I’m not claiming that my ranking is objectively correct by the standards that others are using, but I will try to explain and justify the standards I used in my list.

 

Yes.  He is that good (2 more assists tonight) and he is that good NOW. Most of the prospects on this list we will have to wait for before they can make significant contributions. We probably won’t see Podkolzin for a couple of years, maybe Hoglander next year. Not many players are like Hughes or Pettersson that can come a year after being drafted and improve your roster immediately. Not many players come in and show the dramatic improvement of Rafferty. Remember that Rafferty was only about a 0.60 point per game player his last year in college, when he got to the Canucks last year he showed dramatic improvement in just two games - something I wrote on CDC about at that time. I also wrote previously about his continued rapid improvement even during this season, in Utica - he had 1 goal and 7 assists over the first 15 AHL games, he has 4g and 22 assists over his past 22 games; which reflects an improvement from about .5 points per game to about 1.2 points per game.  I have watched those games, he is visually dramatically improved. He thinks the game like an NHLer, the smarter the players he plays with, the better he plays.  The difference between him and Juolevi is stark, and Juolevi is still a viable prospect - where Juolevi needs to get to, Rafferty is already at.  You really need to watch Rafferty’s first two NHL games again and isolate on him - he got better with each period he played. In the third period of his last game he was paired with Hughes - they had the puck ALL the time. 

 

In addition, I was one of the guys pushing Rathbone from the opening of last year’s season and explaining why, after Rathbone’s great start last season, that his offence tailed off. He started last season paired with Fox, but later was moved to the second unit because of his defensive prowess and they needed him to shut down the opposition’s best unit. 

 

Remember that Gaudette was the Hobey Baker winner, which means that he was a very highly regarded prospect, and much more physically mature than either of Hoglander, Podkolzin or Madden, and he struggled his first season. This season, he is greatly improved and looks ready to take over the third line centre role next season.

 

When I look at prospects, I look at what their value is now as well as their ultimate value. In addition, I rate quality defenders higher than forwards because they can have a greater effect on the game, especially when they generally play more minutes than forwards, and I rate defencemen that can play outstanding O and D more than D whose contribution is limited to one or the other. Secondly, I consider centres of greater value than wingers.  Goaltenders I find much more difficult to judge, I’ll leave it to goaltenders to judge goaltenders’ relative value. 

 

 

I cannot agree in any way that Rafferty would even make the top 5 for Canuck prospects. That is partly based on his age, as most players max out developmentally by 25 and he is already 24.

 

That and the fact that Pouliot is 2nd in the AHL for points for a defenseman and we all know how bad he was in the NHL. Rafferty's play may not translate at all to the NHL and he may just be a good AHLer. I hope that is not true but we will probably see pretty soon.

 

Your rationale is certainly an interesting read though. 

[Ray_Cathode]

16 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I cannot agree in any way that Rafferty would even make the top 5 for Canuck prospects. That is partly based on his age, as most players max out developmentally by 25 and he is already 24.

 

That and the fact that Pouliot is 2nd in the AHL for points for a defenseman and we all know how bad he was in the NHL. Rafferty's play may not translate at all to the NHL and he may just be a good AHLer. I hope that is not true but we will probably see pretty soon.

 

Your rationale is certainly an interesting read though. 

I have watched pretty much all the Utica games this year - Rafferty’s improvement has been continuous all through the season - he has continued developing all year long.  Some players just keep rising to the level to f the competition. It is also instructive to note WHY Pouliot could not make the NHL - he couldn’t play defence, and that inability is reflected in his AHL play. In even strength play Pouliot is -13, Rafferty leads his team in even strength play at +18, only his defence partner, Brisebois is close at +15.  Rafferty can play defence, a prerequisite that Pouliot lacks, so that the two are not comparable. In addition, unlike Pouliot, Rafferty is a strong skater, and has good size at 6’2 195.

[HockeyHarry]

On 1/8/2020 at 5:59 PM, Ray_Cathode said:

 

 

1) Brogan Rafferty

2) Jack Rathbone 

3) Nils Hoglander

4) Vasily Podkolzin

5) Tyler Madden

6) Olli Juolevi

7) Kole Lind

8) Michael DiPietro

9) Zac MacEwen

10)Tyler Graovac

11) Jett Woo

12) Carson Focht 

13) Lukas Jasek

14) Linus Karlson 

15) Aiden McDonough

16) Teves

17) Brisebois 

18) Sautner

19) Lockwood

20) PetrusPalmu

21) Jonah Gadjovich

22) Silovs

I agree with your ranking....there’s some little changes but it’s pretty solid.

but I’d also add in Karel Placek around #14ish....the kid is skinny and plays in Czech Rep so theres little known about him but he did get player of the game in one of the world jr games....skinny kid with skills.

[Ray_Cathode]

3 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

I agree with your ranking....there’s some little changes but it’s pretty solid.

but I’d also add in Karel Placek around #14ish....the kid is skinny and plays in Czech Rep so theres little known about him but he did get player of the game in one of the world jr games....skinny kid with skills.

I forgot about Placek and Costmar - and probably others too - I put it down to senility.

[Silky mitts]

1)Vasily Podkolzin 

2)Tyler Madden

3) Nils Hoglander

4)Jack Rathbone 

5.)Brogan Rafferty

6) Kole Lind

7) Olli Juolevi 

8.) Dipetro

9.) Big Zack

10) Woo

Edited January 11, 2020 by Silky mitts
just noticed i had madden twice lol

[Guest]

Based on their probability of becoming a full time NHLer and then multiplied by the impact potential (1st liner vs 4th liner, top pairing D vs 7th D, etc)  

1) Nils Hoglander 

2) Jack Rathbone  

3) Brogan Rafferty  

4) Vasily Podkolzin

5) Tyler Madden

6) Olli Juolevi

7) Zac MacEwen

8) Kole Lind

9) Lukas Jasek

10) Aiden McDonough

11) Michael DiPietro

12) Carson Focht 

13) Jett Woo  

14 Linus Karlson

15) Guillaume Brisebois 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

So I have been looking at our prospect and drooling, but......I got to say, we are missing that young, highly skilled RHD......

I am not sold on any of Tryamkin, Rafferty or Woo as that, although important

But, What I see is an opportunity to get Fox out of NYR

Which will be really expensive

and if not Fox, then Anthony DeAngelo

But I see a real need for Fox

 

A future Defense of 

 

Hughes  -  Tryamkin

Rathbone  -  Fox or DeAngelo

Juolevi  -  Rafferty

Utunen  -  Woo

 

This is as solid as any young defensive crew there is....so getting Fox is important, IMO

 

I personally, would be willing to move one of Hoglander / Podkolzin / Madden for that

 

No doubt, those 3 forwards, look to be very good, but yet they are unproven

 

Fox, and DeAngelo are both proven NHL young studs, who are behind Trouba

 

So one will be expendable, for a Kings Ransom

 

The question to me is which forward do we move?

 

(Note, it will probably take more than just one asset, but acquiring one should be paramount)

 

Personally, I think Benning needs to do this, as it fits our time line with Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat/Virtanen/Gaudette/Lind

 

This type of move allows Benning complete freedom to draft and develop, in a very non hurried way

 

Why does this opinion belong in the prospects section?

 

Because it involves moving a top tier prospect (unknown which one) and shapes where Benning goes

 

in future drafts, and our prospect pool going forward

 

Maybe I should not have put this exactly here, but it ties in with the depth of our prospects and the power they have

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by janisahockeynut

[kloubek]

Nobody thinks late-bloomer-Bailey belongs on a list? He is a good sized guy who can light it up in the AHL at least.