[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Philadelphia Flyers | Nov. 25, 2019

[wloutet]

Last game we had at least 9 clearing passes from the defense to a forward near the the centre that were missed even being touched and then went on to be called icing. Poor passing is not helping this team.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, coolboarder said:

The game I saw yesterday is on the coach.  He let Philly have a lot of momentum by being defensive shellshock when he had a lead.  Get out and play the game and if we lose 3-1, so be it, at least we know that we had chances to pad the lead.   Even Philly had a better chance on the road from last month than Canucks on the road yesterday.  Players couldn't even hold a tape to tape passes for some pressure.   This is the worst game I have seen them play, even last week was that bad.  What's going on with the team and the coach that deployed the strategy?   I would expect a much better game tomorrow.  

If that’s the case I suppose it’s all on the coach tomorrow too.  If he wins he’s great if we lose he sucks.  Blaming TG posts either way is tiring.  He’s not a bad coach - overall since he’s got here we’ve done better each year then the experts think we should do - and they give him some love as a result (11th in the quarter panel for coach of the year, most coaches got zero votes).  I’m not saying he’s awesome because he’s not (I’m with the group that thinks the Leivo love is too much)...but it’s on the players for the most part.  Either way. 

[Angry Goose]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If that’s the case I suppose it’s all on the coach tomorrow too.  If he wins he’s great if we lose he sucks.  Blaming TG posts either way is tiring.  He’s not a bad coach - overall since he’s got here we’ve done better each year then the experts think we should do - and they give him some love as a result (11th in the quarter panel for coach of the year, most coaches got zero votes).  I’m not saying he’s awesome because he’s not (I’m with the group that thinks the Leivo love is too much)...but it’s on the players for the most part.  Either way. 

TG said in his post game comments the Canucks just didn't have their legs.  Even if the try is there, you can't go any faster if you just don't have your legs under you.

 

Can't wait for roussel and motte to return.  The Canucks overall attack is much better when the line up has their pace 

 

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, smithers joe said:

to me, the telling story is the number of times per game, they miss passes, lose puck battles  and can’t control the puck. 

my question is, do they lack those skills, are playing a system they can’t sustain or are they not having chemistry with their line mates or defense? 

They play to fast for the players, Petey frustrated is one of the indicators, so the only reason for this is that Green want them to graduallt get used to the high speed hockey. 

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

They play to fast for the players, Petey frustrated is one of the indicators, so the only reason for this is that Green want them to graduallt get used to the high speed hockey. 

Spelling and grammar aside - this isn’t just a condition Vancouver is getting used too.  Hockey was very difficult to play at this pace pre lockout.  Back then little hooks, holds, picks and this thing called “finishing your checks” was completely overlooked.  Must be a stressful time to play as a player - now you have to do everything at top speed and god help you if you hit someone wrong - 20 games for “repeat offender” Wilson - for what was a perfectly legal hit not too long ago.   Zebras have gone insane like it’s pewee hockey or something.   

 

This dialogue that players are better today is bunk IMO.  Half of them would be in the morgue before, the other half would do just fine.  Faster doesn’t automatically = better by any means.   Athletes in this game have been in peak condition since the mid-eighties.  It’s not like these guys didn’t work out back then it was all the craze just called different things.  It’s still the best sport in the world by a long shot - but I sure hope things don’t go any further then it has (like the regular season seeps into the playoffs).  

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Spelling and grammar aside - this isn’t just a condition Vancouver is getting used too.  Hockey was very difficult to play at this pace pre lockout.  Back then little hooks, holds, picks and this thing called “finishing your checks” was completely overlooked.  Must be a stressful time to play as a player - now you have to do everything at top speed and god help you if you hit someone wrong - 20 games for “repeat offender” Wilson - for what was a perfectly legal hit not too long ago.   Zebras have gone insane like it’s pewee hockey or something.   

 

This dialogue that players are better today is bunk IMO.  Half of them would be in the morgue before, the other half would do just fine.  Faster doesn’t automatically = better by any means.   Athletes in this game have been in peak condition since the mid-eighties.  It’s not like these guys didn’t work out back then it was all the craze just called different things.  It’s still the best sport in the world by a long shot - but I sure hope things don’t go any further then it has (like the regular season seeps into the playoffs).  

To me, the faster and more precise hockey gets, the more boring it is.  This is one of the least entertaining, if not most, era's ever, imo.

[Rabbit]

Might be I am wrong, I found a formula:

When Loui is not in the lineup, the team plays really good.

When Lori is in the lineup, the team plays . . . . 

[BertaNuck]

Got my Canucks tree up 

blue white green lights and all Canucks ornaments 

[GritGrinder]

25 games in...lets see how this years squad compares with last season's through 25 games.

 

2018-19

10-13-2 22pts 73gf 92ga. 10 wins (Cgy, TB, Fla, Pit, Bos, VGK, Min, Chi, Col, Bos) 6 playoff teams, the Presidents trophy winner and Cup finalist. Injuries to EP, BB, Baer among others during the first 25 games.

 

2019-20

12-9-4 28pts 79gf 71ga. 12 wins (LA, Phi, Det, StL, NYR, Det, Fla, LA, SJ, Nsh, Nsh, Was) 7 wins against teams currently in the bottom 10 of the NHL including 4 against the bottom 2. Relatively healthy the first 15 games, injuries to 3rd-4th liners.

 

6 more goals scored (most fans probably think its much higher) and 21 fewer goals against. -19 to a +8, 27 goal difference has only translated to 2 more wins and the level of competition so far this year is much lower and the "core" has not missed a game (QH 1). You would think that improving by 27 goals over the first 25 games would have had a greater impact than 2 extra wins.

Edited November 27, 2019 by GritGrinder

[GritGrinder]

That home and home back-to-back against the Oilers this weekend seems odd. Although I'm sure it has happened, I can't remember a team playing the first night back from a long road trip. Yes I know its just from Edm to Van after Saturday's 6th and final game of the roadie but I just can't recall such a scheduling oddity in recent years. Anyone else remember something like this..?

[ruilin96]

25 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

25 games in...lets see how this years squad compares with last season's through 25 games.

 

2018-19

10-13-2 22pts 73gf 92ga. 10 wins (Cgy, TB, Fla, Pit, Bos, VGK, Min, Chi, Col, Bos) 6 playoff teams, the Presidents trophy winner and Cup finalist. Injuries to EP, BB, Baer among others during the first 25 games.

 

2019-20

12-9-4 28pts 79gf 71ga. 12 wins (LA, Phi, Det, StL, NYR, Det, Fla, LA, SJ, Nsh, Nsh, Was) 7 wins against teams currently in the bottom 10 of the NHL including 4 against the bottom 2. Relatively healthy the first 15 games, injuries to 3rd-4th liners.

 

6 more goals scored (most fans probably think its much higher) and 21 fewer goals against. -19 to a +8, 27 goal difference has only translated to 2 more wins and the level of competition so far this year is much lower and the "core" has not missed a game (QH 1). You would think that improving by 27 goals over the first 25 games would have had a greater impact than 2 extra wins.

Canucks have been on the wrong side more often than not when it comes to 1 goal games this season.

[GritGrinder]

6 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

Canucks have been on the wrong side more often than not when it comes to 1 goal games this season.

6 last season and 8 this season through 25 games.

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

To me, the faster and more precise hockey gets, the more boring it is.  This is one of the least entertaining, if not most, era's ever, imo.

Is it the lack of finished checks and physicality, or the lack of creativity due to rushed play?

Or is it something else?

 

I can't put my finger on it, but to nail it down to a word, the modern era lacks soul.

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

To me, the faster and more precise hockey gets, the more boring it is.  This is one of the least entertaining, if not most, era's ever, imo.

Agreed.  I used to hate the interference in the dead puck era - but it was definitely still hockey like I was used to in the physical sense...never thought I’d miss it but I kind of do (not the interference - but the hitting and guys finishing checks).   There’s room for both sides of the game (finesse/skill-blunt force) ... it can’t all be icing - need the cake to go with it ... at least  they have kept things mostly as they’ve always been come playoff...up until last year at least ... Bettman started the playoff publicly backing up the refs saying we had the best in the planet...then Vegas is eliminated on a non call and what did he say again...?...oh yeah something about his head  was exploding ...

 

The NHL got cost certainty and has flourished for the most part ... some parts of the games are even better (not red line, whistles for icing) ... but I feel sad for those who weren’t around and or not interested in the 80’s-early mid 90’s... writers call it the golden era of hockey for a reason.   1987 - best collection of hockey players ever - two dynasties, bench clearing brawls, no instigator etc etc.  

 

Still love it and always will.  But it’s definitely different.   

[luckylager]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Agreed.  I used to hate the interference in the dead puck era - but it was definitely still hockey like I was used to in the physical sense...never thought I’d miss it but I kind of do (not the interference - but the hitting and guys finishing checks).   There’s room for both sides of the game (finesse/skill-blunt force) ... it can’t all be icing - need the cake to go with it ... at least  they have kept things mostly as they’ve always been come playoff...up until last year at least ... Bettman started the playoff publicly backing up the refs saying we had the best in the planet...then Vegas is eliminated on a non call and what did he say again...?...oh yeah something about his head  was exploding ...

 

The NHL got cost certainty and has flourished for the most part ... some parts of the games are even better (not red line, whistles for icing) ... but I feel sad for those who weren’t around and or not interested in the 80’s-early mid 90’s... writers call it the golden era of hockey for a reason.   1987 - best collection of hockey players ever - two dynasties, bench clearing brawls, no instigator etc etc.  

 

Still love it and always will.  But it’s definitely different.   

Those were my hockey glory days, was such an awesome era.

I was 6 in 1985 and that's when I really started caring about hockey.

That was an awesome era.

 

Then Messier turned me off of hockey for a few years.

[TimberWolf]

38 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Is it the lack of finished checks and physicality, or the lack of creativity due to rushed play?

Or is it something else?

 

I can't put my finger on it, but to nail it down to a word, the modern era lacks soul.

 

 

Overcoached. Too many teams playing like robots. Creativity is discouraged. (Pavel Bure's first shift would have been condemned by coaching in this era)

 

Teams should be only allowed a head coach and trainer on the bench and that's it. Not this army of suits they have today.

[luckylager]

18 minutes ago, TimberWolf said:

 

Overcoached. Too many teams playing like robots. Creativity is discouraged. (Pavel Bure's first shift would have been condemned by coaching in this era)

 

Teams should be only allowed a head coach and trainer on the bench and that's it. Not this army of suits they have today.

Good angle.

I did mention the lack of creativity being an issue for me, and that's not just a lack of individual creativity, but (as you mention) robotic play and lack of creativity in systems.

 

It seems the league lacks coaches who were creative forwards in their playing career and today's elites are being coached by yesterdays bottom 6.

 

 

[canuck2288]

15 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

 Because there’s this thing called parity?

 

because teams get fatigued during a season. Not every tram gives it there all every night and before you say see! What I mean is not because they take them lightly but because of fatigue or strategy. When you hear in interviews “maybe we didn’t respect our opponents enough” it’s just an excuse. I mean you think their going to admit we were tired and lazy tonight?

 

plus these playoff teams you speak of usually don’t need the win as bad as us. Take Washington for example the other night, they had the best record why should their urgency be as great as ours? It’s not about taking us lightly it’s about not having the same urgency due to where they are in the standings and there’s so much parity these days the gap isn’t really that far. Plus these teams we lose to that are worse then us, philly? They’ve finished ahead of us every year for the past five seasons so I don’t get how you say we’re better then them

to Begin with? Again they dominated us but again one game doesent reflect everything either.

 

im not going to be totally ignorant though, what your saying is true too

but not to the extent you’re saying, it had to do with all factors I said too.

I hear you but there is a no doubt players get up for “big games” and subconsciously let down when it’s a “team like that” we are playing 

 

My bet is we will be up for the pens and oilers 

[spook007]

14 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Last 25 games we are 12-9-4. We are 3rd in our division and well within the fight for a wildcard spot/playoff spot.

 

All teams go through tough games and stretches as well as highs. We could be a powerhouse team like Tampa last year and get swept in the 1st round. We could be bottom of the league by the new year and win the Cup like St Louis. No matter how it's spun, there's a long season still ahead and lots of things can still happen.

 

I don't see the need to fire everyone and trade the scapegoats after every loss, nor do I feel like a Stanley Cup contender after every win. We have been progressing every year and if we continue the trend, we should be in a wild card spot this year or at least fighting right to the last game of the year. If that's where we end up, I'm fine with it. I'm trusting the process.

Well said....

Funny how quickly the bar of expectations moves up or down after each game...

The expectation of the wast majority ware to either just make it, or maybe even just miss out but being in the hunt right up to the end.

So far that's exactly, where we are.... It's a process....

[spook007]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Spelling and grammar aside - this isn’t just a condition Vancouver is getting used too.  Hockey was very difficult to play at this pace pre lockout.  Back then little hooks, holds, picks and this thing called “finishing your checks” was completely overlooked.  Must be a stressful time to play as a player - now you have to do everything at top speed and god help you if you hit someone wrong - 20 games for “repeat offender” Wilson - for what was a perfectly legal hit not too long ago.   Zebras have gone insane like it’s pewee hockey or something.   

 

This dialogue that players are better today is bunk IMO.  Half of them would be in the morgue before, the other half would do just fine.  Faster doesn’t automatically = better by any means.   Athletes in this game have been in peak condition since the mid-eighties.  It’s not like these guys didn’t work out back then it was all the craze just called different things.  It’s still the best sport in the world by a long shot - but I sure hope things don’t go any further then it has (like the regular season seeps into the playoffs).  

Nice post....

Don't think you have to worry about play offs becoming a non contact sport, as this is what sells the NHL... 

Despite the talk about not wanting the players to get hurt, it is the intensity of Hockey that has most people tuned in...all included...