Former player accuses Flames head coach Bill Peters of using racial slur -- Peters resigns

[Nucker 67]

Remember when hockey players were the toughest SOBs on the planet?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, spur1 said:

Part of the story was D Sutter hitting players as well. 

Then I hope the players smacked him back.  I really don’t get how these kinds of behaviours are motivating?  Yet, Sutter won two Cups in LA, so what the hell?  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Remember when hockey players were the toughest SOBs on the planet?

They at one time were also THE most talented players on a particular team.  Granted, that was when Alf was still only 500 years old.

 

(eg., Rocket Richard, Gordie Howe, etc.,)

[Toews]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I accept everything you say except that by defending someone it marries you to them.  

True, but you are marrying yourself to the action that you are defending. For example if you are defending a lie then you are complicit in that lie. None of us are perfect but it behooves us to stand up for what is right. I believe Don Cherry's words have been hurtful not just in this instance but in others as well. I do not believe Don Cherry has ever owned up to this, nor have I ever seen him self-reflect, clarify or apologize for what he said. Either Don Cherry refuses to change or refuses to admit fault, in either case I believe he is not a role model for our youth to follow, as he was for me and many others.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Toews

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Remember when hockey players were the toughest SOBs on the planet?

I think most hockey players still are super tough guys.  What does this show about the kind of power and control the coaches have over the players, when really tough guys are abused like this, and don’t fight back? 

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Interesting story about D Sutter while he was with the Kings. Allegedly cursing out a flight attendant who was trying to serve the guys some food. He was saying they couldn’t eat because they played so lousy. I find that very disturbing on a lot of different levels. 

What blows me away is that as team of grown up men and millionaires they would put up with that kind of crap. 

 

that kind of thing is dickish, but doesn't bother me that much..........a lot of player respond to those kinds of coaches.  When I was playing Jr A we played in Penticton and as a 16 year old it was a game I watched form the stands.  We lost and everyone had to wear their stinky equipment home on the bus and then run stairs for a full hour when we got back.........we finished running around 3am.  I didn't play, but still had to dress in Penticton, wear my equipment back and run the stairs when we got home.  We hated the coach for that, but we went on a 15 game win streak after that, the longest in BCJHL history at the time. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

True, but you are marrying yourself to the action that you are defending. For example if you are defending a lie then you are complicit in that lie. None of us are perfect but it behooves us to stand up for what is right. I believe Don Cherry's words have been hurtful not just in this instance but in others as well. I do not believe Don Cherry has ever owned up to this, nor have I ever seen him ever self-reflect, clarify or apologize for what he said. Either Don Cherry refuses to change or refuses to admit fault, in either case to me he is not a role model for our youth to follow. 

I’m defending Don Cherry’s right to express himself, so long as it is within our charter.  

[spur1]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I think most hockey players still are super tough guys.  What does this show about the kind of power and control the coaches have over the players, when really tough guys are abused like this, and don’t fight back? 

The almighty dollar and the peer pressure are a very powerful thing. 

[Jester13]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Cherry's wasn't racist, at all, imo.  You people was directed at people who don't wear poppies.

He provided context that is clear to everyone except his supporters. He has also expressed highly discriminatory opinions on HNIC many times throughout the years. 

 

49 minutes ago, rekker said:

Sorry but I can't go and call Cherry and Peters racists. IMHO, using a word or a choice of word does not make you a racist. How these two men act and live their lives makes them, or doesn't make them racists. We are not privy to that information so calling them racist based on a choice of words is not enough for me to judge a way of life. 

Words and actions (i.e. not apologizing for speaking in error) matter and speak volume. I judge people by what they say but, more importantly, how they act. A good example of a sporting situation that recently happened is with PGA golfer Matt Kucher.

 

Kuch made some off-the-cuff racist comments about his Mexican caddie, where the local caddie helped him win the tourney. Instead of Kuch paying the caddie the usual percentage, which would have turned out to be anywhere from 50k-100k for the win (Kuch won something like 1.5 million, and something like 47m throughout his career), Kuch instead paid him only 5k. When he was questioned on it, Kuch made some ostensibly racist comment about how 5k is a lot of money to a Mexican. Instead of digging his heels in like Cherry has done and refusing to apologize and doubling down on the comment(s), Kuch very recently spoke of how he took it as a learning opportunity to make clear a blind spot that he had in his personal views and knowledge. He apologized, paid the man his due, and learned from his mistake.

 

This is where an apology for making racist comments is forgivable. But when someone like Cherry, for example, or Trump as another example, dig their heels in and instead refuse to see how their words are racist, well, then they are left with being labeled (fairly, imo) as a racist.

[Toews]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I’m defending Don Cherry’s right to express himself, so long as it is within our charter.  

I will accept that. I am a fan of freedom of expression as well. 

[peaches5]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I’m pretty sure NHL players fly either on a team plane or on charters where proper meals are provided.  For Sutter to deny the players dinner because he felt they didn’t deserve it is akin to a parent saying a poorly behaving child is going to bed without their dinner.  It’s kind of controlling beyond crazy.  What Peters did was way worse though.  I can actually see physical stuff happening between a player and a coach, but that ‘n music’ comment was racially motivated.  

They only have microwaves on airplanes. The quality of food can't be that high. It's odd but it worked. A Kings team that was underperforming had Sutter come in and lead them to two cups. These guys needed that kick in their ass to start playing.

[spur1]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

that kind of thing is dickish, but doesn't bother me that much..........a lot of player respond to those kinds of coaches.  When I was playing Jr A we played in Penticton and as a 16 year old it was a game I watched form the stands.  We lost and everyone had to wear their stinky equipment home on the bus and then run stairs for a full hour when we got back.........we finished running around 3am.  I didn't play, but still had to dress in Penticton, wear my equipment back and run the stairs when we got home.  We hated the coach for that, but we went on a 15 game win streak after that, the longest in BCJHL history at the time. 

Dxxk head bosses do get results over the short term. Long term not so much. They could get away with it longer if there is a turnover of personnel like in hockey. When there wasn’t corporate would move them around. Something like hockey. 

[Gurn]

6 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This is the part that makes me shake my head....

 

Despite the fact that there are people here like yourself (and myself) who have been in the same, or similar position as Aliu, people who've never held a stick (other than maybe a joystick) persist in telling us all that he should have said something at the time. It's like they're completely oblivious to the facts of the situation, which is, when you're a kid trying to make the squad, (or hopefully the big team, a level up) you keep your mouth shut about stuff like this.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. It's the same reason women who are hoping for a promotion, put up with being called "honey" by the boss.

 

To my recollection, Arch used to say "colored" pretty much all the time. Either that, or it was "you people". (insert Don Cherry joke here)

 

I actually recall one episode where he referred to George as "black" and it sounded odd....

 

All in the Family was developed by Norman Lear, who was Jewish and a huge advocate for civil rights. I believe that Archie's casual racism was a commentary on the society at the time and Lear was calling it out.

Strangely, in real life Carol O'Conner was a democrat and Rob Reiner was a republican.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, peaches5 said:

They only have microwaves on airplanes. The quality of food can't be that high. It's odd but it worked. A Kings team that was underperforming had Sutter come in and lead them to two cups. These guys needed that kick in their ass to start playing.

I see that, but wonder why some players respond with improved play after being abused in some way?  Was Peters comment to AA a method of motivation?  Was he trying to give AA a kick in the ass, and crossed the line with his choice of words?  Peters kicked guys too!  Was that a way to motivate them?  

Where is the line between motivation and abuse?  Clearly Peters crossed that line IMO with the racist n word vile comment.  But where is the line?

[GB5]

If Peters did indeed do this then all he should do is apologize. Hopefully everyone can move on and grow from this.

Edited November 28, 2019 by GarthButcher5

[nuckin_futz]

12 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

If Peters did indeed do this then all he should do is apologize, say he has grown as a person and move on...end of story.

He buried a viable prospect in the ECHL as retribution. All he should do is apologize? Seriously?

 

Never mind what he did to Aliu. What he did to the Blackhawks organization was a serious dereliction of duty. His job was to groom all viable prospects. He took a viable prospect and buried him for the sake of his ego. Stan Bowman is on record as saying he knew nothing of the locker room music issue. Just that Peters made the case he didn't want Aliu and that he was a problem. Turns out Peters was even more of a problem.

 

"All he should do is apologize".

 

LOL

[Gurn]

Wonder if Stan issues both an apology, and a try out to Aliu as a way to attempt amends?

 

 

[samurai]

1 hour ago, Toews said:

I disagree. To me the context of the quote and who is targeted is clear.

"You people come here" or "they come here" 

 

If Cherry wasn't targeting immigrants, he could easily have "us" or "we", but then he switches to "our" milk and honey. Its clear that he is only calling out immigrants for not wearing poppies vs. everyone. Singling out immigrants to me is something that a bigot would do, and this isn't the first time Cherry had made bigoted comments so he really loses that benefit of the doubt from my perspective. 

 

The fact that he hasn't apologized underscores why he doesn't get it and why he probably should not be on national TV. I am perfectly fine with him having a podcast for those who can look past his unsavory behaviour and still see something worthwhile. I personally cannot do so anymore.

Clear to you moral preacher.  

[peaches5]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I see that, but wonder why some players respond with improved play after being abused in some way?  Was Peters comment to AA a method of motivation?  Was he trying to give AA a kick in the ass, and crossed the line with his choice of words?  Peters kicked guys too!  Was that a way to motivate them?  

Where is the line between motivation and abuse?  Clearly Peters crossed that line IMO with the racist n word vile comment.  But where is the line?

 I think there is a big difference between kicking and punching guys than telling them they can't eat on an airplane. The fact he kicked hard enough to have a assistant coach step in and tell him to stop tells you this was not a love tap.

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

that kind of thing is dickish, but doesn't bother me that much..........a lot of player respond to those kinds of coaches.  When I was playing Jr A we played in Penticton and as a 16 year old it was a game I watched form the stands.  We lost and everyone had to wear their stinky equipment home on the bus and then run stairs for a full hour when we got back.........we finished running around 3am.  I didn't play, but still had to dress in Penticton, wear my equipment back and run the stairs when we got home.  We hated the coach for that, but we went on a 15 game win streak after that, the longest in BCJHL history at the time. 

At least you got to run in dry hockey gear.......LOL