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CBH1926

Anatomy of money laundering in B.C. real estate: 12 cases, $1.7 billion, 20 countries and 30 banks

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From the article:

 

 

Quote

 

A growing problem

Louise Shelley, a professor at George Mason University and the lead at the university’s Terrorism, Transnational Crime and Corruption Center, has a sobering conclusion.

The use of real estate to launder money is a growing problem, she says.

Criminals have ever-larger amounts of money to be disposed of — and skyrocketing prices of real estate in a growing number of places in the world, including in Vancouver and Toronto — makes it a “really choice” way to store and grow their illicit money, said Shelley.

Of the illicit money flowing into real estate, she says: “Nobody seems to have cared … It was good for business.”

 

Its ridiculous to completely lay the blame on Christy Clark when the problem existed before her and is still on going after she has gone.  It really is a world wide problem.  Prices of housing have sky rocketed in cities like Toronto, Sydney, San Francisco, London, and even Seattle.  

 

As long as organized crime is around, you will have money laundering.  While the Mafia started as small time crooks strong arming store owners, and illegal activities like gambling, prostitution, drugs, they quickly moved into legitimate businesses as they "cleaned" their money.  

 

When it comes to greed there are no boundaries.  And according to the articles, the banks and financial institutions are as much to blame as Christy Clark.  In fact, the bankers are not held to account like politicians  who can be voted out.

 

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7 hours ago, DonLever said:

From the article:

 

 

Its ridiculous to completely lay the blame on Christy Clark when the problem existed before her and is still on going after she has gone.  It really is a world wide problem.  Prices of housing have sky rocketed in cities like Toronto, Sydney, San Francisco, London, and even Seattle.  

 

As long as organized crime is around, you will have money laundering.  While the Mafia started as small time crooks strong arming store owners, and illegal activities like gambling, prostitution, drugs, they quickly moved into legitimate businesses as they "cleaned" their money.  

 

When it comes to greed there are no boundaries.  And according to the articles, the banks and financial institutions are as much to blame as Christy Clark.  In fact, the bankers are not held to account like politicians  who can be voted out.

 

We have the money laundering for sure. Any idea that BC and Canada are exempt from the work of organized crime is a joke. 

 

IMHO citizens should understand how big a component the real estate business is in the economy. It employs a huge number of people. The BC Liebels have to take some responsibility. Talking to some of them they thought it could be controlled but they were afraid of the sharp decline in building that the down turn  would cause. It appears the Dippers feel the same way as they haven't done much since identifying the problem. IMHO there is no shortage of land in the Fraser Valley. It is all about zoning to create shortage. Increase density, go higher and do some rezoning.     

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Prior to 86 expo, outside of Canada very few people have ever heard of Vancouver.

Once money started to pour in, things have changed including the real estate.

Price of success in a way.

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1 minute ago, CBH1926 said:

Prior to 86 expo, outside of Canada very few people have ever heard of Vancouver.

Once money started to pour in, things have changed including the real estate.

Price of success in a way.

Agree,

 

2010 Olympics really put us on the map too. Internationally.

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19 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

Agree,

 

2010 Olympics really put us on the map too. Internationally.

yup. Everyone wanted the Olympics here.

Be careful what you wish for as they say.. 

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An old friend of mine bought a school bus to renovate into a home. Because you know, &^@# buying an actual property, right. Children today are going to have to inherit their property because they'll never be able to buy one as this only proceeds to get worse, more expensive, and push even more people out of the market. Politicians don't care, criminals won't stop, and plebs across the spectrum are going to sit by passively watch this happen..

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On 11/29/2019 at 9:17 PM, MoneypuckOverlord said:

put an end to foreign ownership of property.   this will solve everything. many countries have this law in place


No.
 

Then I’ll have to buy in Calgary, and I don’t want to do that. 

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On 12/8/2019 at 2:53 PM, Tortorella's Rant said:

An old friend of mine bought a school bus to renovate into a home. Because you know, &^@# buying an actual property, right. Children today are going to have to inherit their property because they'll never be able to buy one as this only proceeds to get worse, more expensive, and push even more people out of the market. Politicians don't care, criminals won't stop, and plebs across the spectrum are going to sit by passively watch this happen..

When I tell my American colleagues who do the same job as me in the US my salary, taxes paid, and average cost of a home they are so baffled and can't understand how people even live in this country. I made one person from Ohio fall off her chair in shock.

While America has some extreme examples on the ends of the spectrum my colleagues there have a significantly higher standard of living. 
 
In some of the richest US towns their house prices are cheap in comparison to Vancouver. Scarsdale New York for example the average income is $445K per year and the median house price is just over 1 million. 

How does this compare to Vancouver? West side of Vancouver has an average home price of $3.6M with an average household income of $65K. That is basically a couple making just over minimum wage each. There are roughly 100,000 households. If they would be earning an average of $1M per year (per household) that would cost each resident of Vancouver an equivalent to just under $74K per year in taxes! Even if you halve that number to put the incomes in line with the US (despite the house prices being way higher) it is still an outrageous number.

 

This is basically why young people with six figure incomes live like someone making minimum wage 20 years ago. 

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 10.35.29 PM.png

Edited by canucklehead44
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1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

When I tell my American colleagues who do the same job as me in the US my salary, taxes paid, and average cost of a home they are so baffled and can't understand how people even live in this country. I made one person from Ohio fall off her chair in shock.

While America has some extreme examples on the ends of the spectrum my colleagues there have a significantly higher standard of living. 
 
In some of the richest US towns their house prices are cheap in comparison to Vancouver. Scarsdale New York for example the average income is $445K per year and the median house price is just over 1 million. 

How does this compare to Vancouver? West side of Vancouver has an average home price of $3.6M with an average household income of $65K. That is basically a couple making just over minimum wage each. There are roughly 100,000 households. If they would be earning an average of $1M per year (per household) that would cost each resident of Vancouver an equivalent to just under $74K per year in taxes! Even if you halve that number to put the incomes in line with the US (despite the house prices being way higher) it is still an outrageous number.

 

This is basically why young people with six figure incomes live like someone making minimum wage 20 years ago. 

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 10.35.29 PM.png

Great post.  YOu  are 100 % correction.   Moms and Dads will soon be sick and tired of paying their 45 year old childrens monthly mortgage payments.....

 

Lower mainland market is due for a MAJOR correction. 

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was useful to read, tnx. Personally I think today it's more profitable investing in your own business than in real estate market. I read here https://spdload.com/blog/cost-of-mvp/ how much doest it cost to build an mvp to reduce all risks. Wanna start my own business too one day.

Edited by WilliG

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The Liberals have lots to answer for concerning gambling in BC and the movement of illegal money into real estate. I remember Gordon Campbell running for election and a platform of 'no more casino licenses'. As soon as he was elected the casinos started going up. Bottom line is that the provincial government is bring in +$1 billion a year on gambling. Easy to look away. The history of organized crime activity in BC could easily cost the Liberals the next provincial election. 

 

The Dippers also have to answer for why their investigations have not led to charges? Sorry but million $ fines are simply the cost of doing business, not a deterent. The amount of money involved provides opportunity for bribery of public officials and even elected politicians.  We would be naive to think that is not already happening. 

Edited by Boudrias

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On 12/9/2019 at 7:35 PM, canucklehead44 said:

When I tell my American colleagues who do the same job as me in the US my salary, taxes paid, and average cost of a home they are so baffled and can't understand how people even live in this country. I made one person from Ohio fall off her chair in shock.

While America has some extreme examples on the ends of the spectrum my colleagues there have a significantly higher standard of living. 
 
In some of the richest US towns their house prices are cheap in comparison to Vancouver. Scarsdale New York for example the average income is $445K per year and the median house price is just over 1 million. 

How does this compare to Vancouver? West side of Vancouver has an average home price of $3.6M with an average household income of $65K. That is basically a couple making just over minimum wage each. There are roughly 100,000 households. If they would be earning an average of $1M per year (per household) that would cost each resident of Vancouver an equivalent to just under $74K per year in taxes! Even if you halve that number to put the incomes in line with the US (despite the house prices being way higher) it is still an outrageous number.

 

This is basically why young people with six figure incomes live like someone making minimum wage 20 years ago. 

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-09 at 10.35.29 PM.png

65k$ income income on the west side of Vancouver?!?!?!?

 

seems false to me.

Edited by riffraff
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That Rich Coleman is some kind of piece of work. Guy blames the NDP everyday on Twitter about the status of our province when it’s projection of exactly what he and the Libs did and caused in our province. Waste of skin and jail would be a kind place for him. He deserves the worst to come, unfortunately I don’t have confidence anything will happen. Too far too deep into this rabbit hole of corruption.

06931B75-8905-4570-B421-CCF90D23A8DE.jpeg

Edited by EP Phone Home
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1 hour ago, riffraff said:

65k$ income income on the west side of Vancouver?!?!?!?

 

seems false to me.

Its hard to say. There are stories out there of people who have come to the lower mainland and bought their multi-million dollar homes in cash, earn income and shelter it in other countries, while sitting on welfare here. Probably why the numbers are so skewed as no way a bank is giving someone a mortgage on a $1M+ home with a $65K p/y income. 

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4 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Its hard to say. There are stories out there of people who have come to the lower mainland and bought their multi-million dollar homes in cash, earn income and shelter it in other countries, while sitting on welfare here. Probably why the numbers are so skewed as no way a bank is giving someone a mortgage on a $1M+ home with a $65K p/y income. 

Exactly.  These articles are insulting to anyone with the most minute thinking skills.

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1 hour ago, riffraff said:

65k$ income income on the west side of Vancouver?!?!?!?

 

seems false to me.

65,000 is their . " Reported "    Income ..........

 

People that work for salary in BC are screwed..... as wages here are below workers in Alabama receive...   Thank you Gordo and CC......

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36 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Its hard to say. There are stories out there of people who have come to the lower mainland and bought their multi-million dollar homes in cash, earn income and shelter it in other countries, while sitting on welfare here. Probably why the numbers are so skewed as no way a bank is giving someone a mortgage on a $1M+ home with a $65K p/y income. 

Actually, not entirely accurate.  A person from another nation like oh say, China.  Can get a mortgage here.  Without passing many of the same checks and balances we as Canadians have too.  I think that rule has changed somewhat but it went on for a long, long time.

 

Full on uninsured mortgages for students without any proof of income or credit checks.  Again, unsure how much these rules have changed but that was in fact an ongoing issue for a long time.  But until as recently as 2018 this was the case.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadian-banks-mortgage-guidelines-favour-foreign-home-buyers/article31869946/

 

Having checked since, yes there WAS in fact some few laws written up to ensure that proof of income was done but again, there is still a lot of actual freedom granted foreign purchasers looking for lenders that Canadians are not granted in the same instances.

 

http://www.krp.ca/new-restrictions-on-foreign-investors-leave-more-questions-than-answers/

 

https://www.vancourier.com/real-estate/cibc-tightens-mortgage-rules-for-foreign-buyers-1.23186136

 

But again, here we have lenders groups doing everything in their power to avoid that in BC

 

https://www.richardsmortgagegroup.ca/blog/using-foreign-earned-income-to-purchase-a-home-in-canada

 

it's a damned shady business

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11 hours ago, riffraff said:

65k$ income income on the west side of Vancouver?!?!?!?

 

seems false to me.

That was my whole point. They obviously are not folks like you and I making $65K per year. This number is reported via statistics Canada. They are likely making millions per year, just not paying any taxes on it while driving up the cost of living for everyone else. 

 

Canada is really, really expensive (especially Vancouver & Toronto) and professional jobs pay so little compared to the US (plus much higher taxes). 

This money laundering issue has really skewed cost of living from incomes and has drastically reduced our standard of living. A lot of older folks have a hard time conceptualizing how expensive housing has gotten. One way to make it easy to understand is comparing it relative to the cost of other things. 

In 1969 the average new home in Vancouver was 40,000. If everything inflated the same as housing:

- the average wage would be $227,000 per year
- gas would cost $10.50 per litre
- A gallon of milk would be $38.50
 

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