THIS HOCKEY WITCH HUNT HAS TO STOP!

[canuktravella]

i for one hope babcock and peters never get a nhl job again they are grade a a holes and pretty sure they are done.   

[UFCanuck]

Bure “Mike Keenan beat me with a stick”

-bure didn’t say this

[Alflives]

Just now, VforVirtanen said:

For those saying it was 10 years ago and will this keep happening: If they were respected or believed and part of a culture of accountability I guarantee they would have come forward back then. 
 

That didn’t exist at the time. Don’t blame the victims for being afraid to get into a fight they had zero chance of winning. 

Again, what did Babcock do that isn't part of the era's acceptable coaching tactics?  Peters crossed the line (IMO) with his racist comments, and physically kicking guys.  But I don't see what Babcock did that wasn't accepted as coaching in that era.  I think we need to not look through out current lenze and judge, but through that era's lenze.  

[-SN-]

2 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

timmy hos   you mean the american owned corporation that has a garbage product  these days and it isnt really cheap anymore 

Brazilian owned if I'm not mistaken.

[VforVasili]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Babcock yelled at, and mentally challenged guys.  I don't agree with those methods to motivate, but (during that time in the NHL) wasn't that how a lot of successful coaches motivated players?  That's why I suggest the era of the action needs to be how it's judged.  

If that was the case and he was just an average coach using average methods why would so many people be coming forward to malign him?

 

Sure sounds like he has made his bed by behaving outside of the expected norms for an NHL coach. 
 

some of the stories about him are definitely harassment and abuse not motivation. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

timmy hos   you mean the american owned corporation that has a garbage product  these days and it isnt really cheap anymore 

I like their Canadian Doughnuts.  

[Dekey Pete]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Again, what did Babcock do that isn't part of the era's acceptable coaching tactics?  Peters crossed the line (IMO) with his racist comments, and physically kicking guys.  But I don't see what Babcock did that wasn't accepted as coaching in that era.  I think we need to not look through out current lenze and judge, but through that era's lenze.  

Babcock was fired for being a crappy coach and treating his players like crap to this day.  Nothing wrong him getting fired for that.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Dekey Pete

[Alflives]

Just now, VforVirtanen said:

If that was the case and he was just an average coach using average methods why would so many people be coming forward to malign him?

 

Sure sounds like he has made his bed by behaving outside of the expected norms for an NHL coach. 
 

some of the stories about him are definitely harassment and abuse not motivation. 

Through today's lense those Babcock actions are clearly abusive, and have no place in our game.  However, what was the view of those actions during the time they happened?  I'd say a lot of successful NHL coaches used the same tactics, especially yelling and playing mental games.  

[Dekey Pete]

5 minutes ago, VforVirtanen said:

For those saying it was 10 years ago and will this keep happening: If they were respected or believed and part of a culture of accountability I guarantee they would have come forward back then. 
 

That didn’t exist at the time. Don’t blame the victims for being afraid to get into a fight they had zero chance of winning. 

I'm glad that more people are being held accountable to their actions today.  But you can't retroactively apply this new culture to every little thing that's happened in the past.  Times change and people change with them.  Again, where does it stop?  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Dekey Pete said:

Babcock was fired for being a crappy coach and treating his players like crap to this day.  Nothing wrong him getting fired for that.

Agreed.  However, he's currently being vilified for coaching tactics he used during a time when (IMO) those tactics were common place in the NHL.  

What did Babcock do that's so bad, other than be a crappy coach?

[VforVasili]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again, what did Babcock do that isn't part of the era's acceptable coaching tactics?  Peters crossed the line (IMO) with his racist comments, and physically kicking guys.  But I don't see what Babcock did that wasn't accepted as coaching in that era.  I think we need to not look through out current lenze and judge, but through that era's lenze.  

“Babcock was alleged to have asked one of the Leafs’ rookies to list the players on the team from hardest-working to those who, in the eyes of the rookie, didn’t have a strong work ethic. The rookie did so, not wanting to upset his coach, but was taken aback when Babcock told the players who had been listed at the bottom.”

This was a teenager he was playing mind games with. Does that sound like a typical coach to you?

[VforVasili]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Through today's lense those Babcock actions are clearly abusive, and have no place in our game.  However, what was the view of those actions during the time they happened?  I'd say a lot of successful NHL coaches used the same tactics, especially yelling and playing mental games.  

If that’s true why aren’t we hearing about them? One would think all these sensitive youngsters would be jumping on the train to call out those coaches as well. 

[Alflives]

Just now, VforVirtanen said:

“Babcock was alleged to have asked one of the Leafs’ rookies to list the players on the team from hardest-working to those who, in the eyes of the rookie, didn’t have a strong work ethic. The rookie did so, not wanting to upset his coach, but was taken aback when Babcock told the players who had been listed at the bottom.”

This was a teenager he was playing mind games with. Does that sound like a typical coach to you?

I think the tactic is stupid, and will not motivate a player to be better.  I don't think yelling and screaming works either.  However, within the NHL (and even only a couple years ago) was this tactic of mental manipulation used to motivate?  Clearly yelling and screaming went on, and I think coaches played (and likely still do) mind games too.   

[Dekey Pete]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Agreed.  However, he's currently being vilified for coaching tactics he used during a time when (IMO) those tactics were common place in the NHL.  

What did Babcock do that's so bad, other than be a crappy coach?

He's being vilified because people want to read about how crappy Babcock was and have all these other stories to corroborate it, and the media is glad to feed it to them.  I'm not denying any of that, I strongly believe he is what people say he is.  My point is, he was fired from the Toronto Maple Leafs and it was well deserved, for being a bad NHL coach and losing the ear of his players.  The extra stories about how bad he treated Marner are just fluff.  They provide some insight into why he probably lost his room, but in the end he was fired for not performing to his contract.

 

Peter's on the other hand, while he may have been (and still be) a crappy human, he was fired over a comment he made (while working a different job) 10 years ago.  That's the difference.

 

edit; I'm sorry, resigned... (which today means fired)

Edited December 3, 2019 by Dekey Pete

[VforVasili]

4 minutes ago, Dekey Pete said:

I'm glad that more people are being held accountable to their actions today.  But you can't retroactively apply this new culture to every little thing that's happened in the past.  Times change and people change with them.  Again, where does it stop?  

If that is what is going on why isn’t there a tsunami of allegations coming out about every nhl coach from that era?

 

Maybe because these ones really were the worst and the players know the difference. 

[The Lock]

On the flip side, coaches who do a good job ALSO get praised for the most part. Should we not praise coaches for doing a good job since it might be deemed a "superhero hunt"?

 

Hold coaches accountable when they do things wrong and praise them when they do things right. @ItTakesAnArmy If you can't handle being held accountable, then you should have a job where you don't have to deal with other people. This goes beyond hockey. This is everywhere. I would argue that if you stood your ground on those 3 asian kids playing together and stressed the chemistry they had, you would have earned a lot more respect than if you broke that line up. You're the leader, not the people telling you what to do.

Edited December 3, 2019 by The Lock

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, VforVirtanen said:

If that’s true why aren’t we hearing about them? One would think all these sensitive youngsters would be jumping on the train to call out those coaches as well. 

Maybe a lot of the guys still play, and won't say anything until they retire?  Or maybe it's only a select few that get that treatment?  I think it's the latter.  Coaches in the NHL seem to need to make an example of certain players.  I think it's a hockey culture thing.  It's totally wrong, but I think Babcock was doing what was proven to work.  Think of our coaches and how there always has seemed to be one or two guys that were the whipping boys.  It's wrong, but I think it's there. 

[Nucker 67]

21 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

H e told me that his kid was just a big baby

A few of those coming out of the woodwork

[Rick Blight]

32 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree No way should a coach be yelling (and of course not hitting) kids.  In the pros I think it's different.  I don't think we need to yell at players to motivate them, but it seems like it happens a lot.  Kicking players is off base.  I would expect there to be fights between coaches and players though.  

This is why you do not see players pushing back at the time of the abuse.

 

He was asked if any of the team leaders confronted Babcock.

“Not really, no; guys talked amongst each other, when some things happened and there was some second guessing and it got to (former general manager) Kenny Holland, Kenny Holland came down to the room and had this speech and supported Mike Babcock," Chelios said. "It was a great speech, but (he told) everybody in the room, ‘If you don’t like it, come up and see me and be traded.’ So that was the way it kind of ended.”

[VforVasili]

7 minutes ago, Dekey Pete said:

I'm glad that more people are being held accountable to their actions today.  But you can't retroactively apply this new culture to every little thing that's happened in the past.  Times change and people change with them.  Again, where does it stop?  

Pretty sure people 10 years ago knew it wasn’t okay to use racial slurs to abuse their players. It’s not like we are taking about grandpa spouting 50s culture here. 
 

Are any of you claiming that 10 years ago you didn’t know any better to not say racist stuff, and more so to do so in an abusive manner to someone in your charge?