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Monty

Bill Peters/Mike Babcock/Marc Crawford/ETC

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Bieksa had a similar take on Tim and Sid about how things were different when he played and these things were not seen as bad. Which is funny cause some of these stories existed years ago apparently and nobody cared to make a fuss then. I forgot who but there was a former player that talked about one of these instances and he said he wrote it in a book years ago. So that speaks more to the looking at things from today's lens on coaches when a few years ago none of us paid any mind to it. 

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1 minute ago, N7Nucks said:

Bieksa had a similar take on Tim and Sid about how things were different when he played and these things were not seen as bad. Which is funny cause some of these stories existed years ago apparently and nobody cared to make a fuss then. I forgot who but there was a former player that talked about one of these instances and he said he wrote it in a book years ago. So that speaks more to the looking at things from today's lens on coaches when a few years ago none of us paid any mind to it. 

Very true. A parallel to this was an African-American activist Tarana Burke coming up with the hashtag #metoo in 2006. She was pretty much ignored even though she was talking about sexual violence about being a problem. Fast forward 11 years in the future, actress Alyssa Milano tweeted it. She gets 500,000 retweets in 24 hrs. The movement is huge. People thought she was the one to start it, but actually, the issue was ignored so many years earlier.

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On 12/6/2019 at 7:52 PM, Dazzle said:

I really do agree with Robin Lehner's take.

 

It's the same with history. There's good things that Hitler did (believe it or not). Yet because we focus all the negative, we fail to see the OVERALL contribution a person has done. There's also the issue with motives. It doesn't mean Hitler was right to kill all the 'crippled'/mentally disabled & Jews, as well as the Poles and other minorities.

 

 

Wat8.jpg?1315930535

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5 hours ago, Monty said:

What the NHL is going to have to do is get rid of 95% of their players and start from scratch, because they’ve all said something before. On and off the ice. 

So have all the coaches.

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On 12/6/2019 at 10:52 AM, Dazzle said:

I really do agree with Robin Lehner's take.

 

It's the same with history. There's good things that Hitler did (believe it or not). Yet because we focus all the negative, we fail to see the OVERALL contribution a person has done. There's also the issue with motives. It doesn't mean Hitler was right to kill all the 'crippled'/mentally disabled & Jews, as well as the Poles and other minorities.

 

We can agree/disagree on the motives. We can also interpret things differently too based on the same pieces of evidence.


If we go back far enough, we can dig up enough dirt on almost everybody, just because it came to light. Does it mean that the past should be ignored? No. But at the same time, judging people based on the past which DOES NOT NECESSARILY reflect their present is fallacious.

 

We've heard of previously racist people that have renounced their past. People DO change. But if we are to go back to what they did or said in the past, we fail to see who they have become.

Oof. Terrible example. I mean, I get what you're going for, but I don't care if Hitler built the Autobahn since he was a genocidal megalomaniac. That's a little different than if someone said the N-word once and kicked a player another time, and doesn't take much digging.

 

People can change, absolutely - and if they don't to match the morals of society then it's their own fault - but then why not just be better to begin with?

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On 12/6/2019 at 12:15 PM, xereau said:

The important part of my post above was ignored heh.

 

Hyperbolic bloodlust is the real problem. Rabid virtue signallers. Its gross, and dangerous.

Is there an over-correction happening? It's something that can be debated, but calling people out as virtue signallers and that sort of thing does nothing to acknowledge that people of power and privilege have gotten away with many things in the past and are being held accountable now. Sometimes I think people's outrage at the playing field getting leveled is larger than the people's outrage at being mistreated to begin with.

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Flames have won 5 straight since Peters resigned. Too bad they couldn’t have replaced him with Willie Desjardins.

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On 12/6/2019 at 1:24 PM, Fateless said:

Look, I actually agree with a lot of what Lehner has to say (not all, but a lot). However, using Hitler as your analogy really just baffles me. Some people do not deserve a second chance, no matter how earnestly they seek one. Actions and words have consequences and while most things in life can be forgiven and moved past, some cannot. As a lawyer, I often see Court cases where someone who has committed a crime feels honest remorse about their actions after the fact. That does not mean they get a second chance and avoid the consequences for their actions. We'd have anarchy in the streets if the a Judge threw down their gavel and let a murderer walk free because felt true remorse after committing the crime. Sometimes change isn't enough. 

Dropping your occupation doesn't make your post anymore valid.

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Jake Dowell, interview in The Athletic. Little blurb about Bill Peters incident:

 

https://theathletic.com/1466657/2019/12/17/where-are-they-now-jake-dowell-remembers-close-knit-2009-10-blackhawks/?source=shared-article

 

Quote

“I did talk to Bill,” Dowell said. “I went into the office and did talk to him and said I think we need to address this. To his credit, in my recollection, he went in and addressed it. It was 10 years ago, so I don’t have a perfect memory of it. In my mind, I thought it was addressed with a sincere apology. Akim clearly has a different recollection of it. I commend him for standing up and making changes in hockey because this has really taken the hockey world by storm right now and it’s a big deal.

 

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9 minutes ago, Monty said:

Jake Dowell, interview in The Athletic. Little blurb about Bill Peters incident:

 

https://theathletic.com/1466657/2019/12/17/where-are-they-now-jake-dowell-remembers-close-knit-2009-10-blackhawks/?source=shared-article

 

 

ALU  was wrong all along, peters did address it right away, again looking more like alu wants to cash in for his failed career because he sucked at hockey

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On 12/6/2019 at 10:49 PM, gttxc said:

What positive insights of Hitler’s overall contribution are we missing because of demonizing him?  Is this a lost in translation thing??  Sure Hitler saved some guys life in WW1, loved animals, and maybe(but not really) hoisted Germany out of recession but OVERALL contribution? Medical advancements?   I’m honestly curious.  Maybe your point was lost in hyperbole.

 

But I agree.  We need to look at a person wholey to comprehend their actions and demonzing them doesn’t help with that.  It’s unscientific.  And I’m getting sick of public outrage... People suck, just animals trying to survive, riding the wave of nature and nurture.  We are all capable to terrible things and the outraged think they are incapable of these things

debated responding to this post

because it could be so easy for others to misconstrue my intent

what was done under hitler's reign and at his direction is abhorrent

and nothing else he may have done can overcome these evil things

 

hitler brought a socialist outlook to germany during his reign

pre WW2 he expropriated land from land barons who were simply hoarding land and keeping it idle

while many workers post WW1 were underemployed and struggling to get by

particularly those with farming talents

hitler redistributed some of this idle land to young farmers who made this land productive again

he redistributed wealth and provided hope to some lower class workers

ancestors of mine directly benefited from this program

 

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I'd like to point out that now that its weeks later most have forgotten after the "over reaction" by fans and media.

 

This includes that old knot head Cherry. 

 

This isn't news any more and no one cares. This group has been dealt with. 

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On 12/6/2019 at 4:04 PM, RUPERTKBD said:

I'm not, nor have I ever been a fan of Chris Chelios, but this story (if true) makes me like him just a little bit:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/chris-chelios-pounded-beers-on-bench-after-mike-babcock-benched-him-at-winter-classic/ar-BBXS831?li=AAggNb9

I've heard stories about Guy Lafleur smoking a cigarette in the penalty box, but Chelly drinking beer on the bench takes the prize.

 

One problem with the story though: Where wer his kids getting the beer from? Was Mom in on it?

This is Chelios we are talking about - his kids were probably 25 already ha ha ...

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On 12/17/2019 at 11:43 AM, Squamfan said:

ALU  was wrong all along, peters did address it right away, again looking more like alu wants to cash in for his failed career because he sucked at hockey

Perhaps it was viewed as not a true sincere apology by Akim.

 

Peters...

"I was told I was out of line.  So I have to say sorry for your crappy music giving me a headache.  I'm also sorry you're too delicate.  We good? Ok.  Now get lost".

 

Lol.:rolleyes:

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It just occurred to me that Marc Crawford’s appearance and mannerisms are like a whitewashed Henry Rollins.

Then realized they were born the same day. Perhaps long-lost un-identical twins separated at birth?!

 

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/c-4949383

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