[PGT] Montreal Canadiens at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2019

[gameburn]

35 minutes ago, singing chef said:

I don't believe we have the talent, certainly not on defense.  It's not reasonable to expect to succeed when a team does not have top pairing D.  Canucks have 1, repeat 1, potential/probable 1st. pairing D (Hughes) who JUST TURNED 20 years old.  There are 2 x 2nd. pairing D (Edler/Myers) and 1, possibly 2, 3rd. paring D (Tanev & possibly Benn).  The balance are extra pairing D and there is little in the way of prospective 1st. pairing D in the system. This has been the problem for the past several years.  Look around the league and you'll find that every top rated team has a minimum of 2 bona fide 1st. pairing D and the other playoff bound teams have at least 1 bona fide 1st. pair d. The team will continue to disappoint until they have a legitimate NHL calibre defense.    Just my opinion.

And I think you are being generous.  Edler is uneven to say the least, as well as often-injured.  Tanev and Stecher are okay 2nd or 3rd pairing guys, but do have a knack for killing offensive plays.  Benn has been, imo, poor for weeks.  Myers is no better than Tanev, although he has moments where he can make a difference. 

As you say, Hughes is a genuine number 1 or 2.  Guy is fantastic both ways.  And plays in a way that should keep him uninjured.  

We've had some bad luck: Juolevi should have been a second pairing guy by now, and Tryamkin should be here too.  Woo is almost workable, as is Chatfield, but neither is going to help us much right now.  

 

Our forwards are receiving all the attention for wasted money (Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Baertschi, even Schaller and Motte aren't much for puck control, let alone scoring), but I think you are right: it's the D that is the bigger problem.  To have 13 forwards in the lineup and only 5 or at most 6 playable D does seem to set the D up for fatigue/injury. 

Dealing with Benning's bad contracts/UFAs has to be a top priority, just barely ahead of replacing Green with a genuine NHL caliber coach.  I still remember when Trotz was available... I'm not sure they even interviewed him, incredible. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

43 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Didn't DeBoer just get fired because his team couldn't play defence?    

That team he was coaching this year is atrocious.  A far cry from the 2015 team.  He'd be the perfect coach to come here and teach our young players.  He's been to the finals twice with 2 different teams.  He's not Scotty Bowman but he makes AHL Green and CHL Willy look like pee wee coaches.

[ShawnAntoski]

I am more interested: how this rough stretch is affecting the locker room, whether, the players will fight for Green or not.  Despite all the noise, Greens' future as a Canuck coach is in the hands of his players and in my opinion, the team is still learning how to win as a team but unfortunately, going through rough streches are an important part of the process.  This team will have to decide how there going to win games - whether it is to be a defensive team or an offensive team and with our goaltending situation, they will be able to compete either way.  

 

Perhaps, the Canucks can look at what the Blues did to turn it around last year and try to see if any strategies are applicable (an interesting read to not be impulsive).

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/st-louis-blues-2019-turnaround-playoffs-big-read/

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[canuckleheads fan]

This team is not the same without Edler. Look at our record with and without him over the past few years. I thought it was a mistake to put the "C" on Bo, he's feeling the pressure and it's effecting his game. They should have put the "C" on Edler for a couple of years, he's really the glue guy on this team, quiet leadership, unflappable personality, a player everyone likes and respects. Don't get me wrong, I love Bo, but if your captain is a forward it's expected that when the team needs it he'll reach down and find another gear, like Crosby, Toews, Messier, Iginla, etc. With Bo there is no extra gear, what you see is what you get, maximum effort every night, which means when the team needs extra, he has nothing left to give.

 

Honestly, they should call Goldy up, give him a month to make it or break it playing every shift with Petey and Miller. Not a period before Green puts the lines in a blender, but every shift. Petey has shown very little creativity without Goldy, yes he's still getting his points, but it's obvious to me that even Miller doesn't process the game at the same level as Petey. The Canucks have only one other player under contract who sees the ice the same way, and that's Goldy. Petey looks joyless out there, it's obvious that he's also putting a lot of pressure on himself and that's affecting his game.

[MikeyD]

2 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Green is trying to make the team play playoffs style game all regular season.. no team can do that.  Too hard on the body. 

 

This team will do some damage if it can make playoffs. But it's not going to happen playing this style of game.. 

What about the Canucks spells playoff level hockey to you? They haven't even been physical as a team in over a month. 

[WHL rocks]

2 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

What about the Canucks spells playoff level hockey to you? They haven't even been physical as a team in over a month. 

Ya because Green ran them into the ground with dump and chase 40 times a game.

 

They're tired as heck from that.. 

 

It worked for a month to start season.  Now they don't have the energy to be physical. . All their energy is spent on dump chase and try to get puck back.   

 

Most of the time they can't recover the puck. Then they have to play defense.  Where are they supposed to get the energy to hit anyone after expending all that energy on Greens system of dump and chase. This isn't the 90s clutch and grab era. It's possession hockey era.  

 

 

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

Green will get the rest of the season. If we're not close to the playoffs he's gone, and then there's a huge pressure to win next year.

 

I'm not saying the coach is to blame for everything, but the team are being asked to play a style they aren't suited to.

[MikeyD]

2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

The problem is Gallant had to have wanted to come here. Especially in the early stages of a rebuild. 
 

Everyone knew Vegas was going to be a decent team off the bat. That was a much better fit and much more attractive destination for Gallant. 

On paper Vegas was a weak team year one. Get out of here. Gallant took that team over the top and continues to do so. 

[CanadianRugby]

1 hour ago, DS4quality said:

You bet on the Canucks? 

Yes.  I cursed them.  I've never won a bet on them. 

[WHL rocks]

1 hour ago, Kushman said:

Do you know where i can find the dump&chase attempts averages by team? 

You gotta look for controlled zone entries stat and work your way from there... 

 

Teams dump the puck in to mitigate the turnover risk and giving up odd man rushes 5v5

 

Barry Trotz does it to perfection but he's the best coach in hockey and an excellent defensive coach. He knows his team and knows what he's going. 

 

Defensive minded coaches do it to shut down opposing teams. NYI do it and they are 1st in NHL for goals against. ARZ DAL BOS are top 4.. all defensive minded teams who don't turn picks over during zone entries 

 

We do it but we are 10th worst in NHL for goals against. Meaning this Defensive system isn't working for our team. 

 

What works for one team doesn't mean it works for all teams. 

 

Canucks are likely top 3 in dump and chase in the league.. I'll see if I can find it .. if you do please post it and tag me thx. 

 

 

[hockeyfan-observer]

Disappointed with tonight's result. :(and the past 2 months)

 

It is ironic that their next game against Vegas is the team I wish they could model some characteristics:

 

1. They outwork teams most nights !
2. They go the net + cause havoc usually leading to a goal
3. They have a high press forecheck on opposing D
4. Their shots from the pt usually have someone screening / deflecting in front.
5. They utilize the key danger area in front of goal (15-20ft) for most of their shots
6. They don't let goalie set as they release shot quickly.

 

Canucks have excellent prospects but need to adapt a bit better as the games are a bit more intense now then October
Also for their pp, wish they have multiple player setups (5+) just to confuse the team opponents more..

[canuktravella]

3 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Green in his final act of incompetence 

 

puts Leivo out when the net was empty while the hottest Canuck Virt sits on the bench 

 

F off Green, don’t let the door hit you on the way out, your cab awaits 

greens love affair with plumber leivo is like chabot and willie gtfo they are 4th line grunts give jaker some pp good pp times hes 2 or 3rd in 5on5 scoring and these other guys just gifted pp time its bs  fire the whole coaching staff and  make some trades jim - sutter tanev leivo pearson  stecher benn   opens up 19 mill can all be gone for all i care and waive eriksson let him rot in minors  we need tryamkin and rathbone signed in march  cut the fat and get some cap space and draft picks   even if u have to retain on sutter the guys  always injured   sell him asap

[mll]

1 hour ago, Scottish⑦Canuck said:

Green will get the rest of the season. If we're not close to the playoffs he's gone, and then there's a huge pressure to win next year.

 

I'm not saying the coach is to blame for everything, but the team are being asked to play a style they aren't suited to.

There's not a lot of creativity on this roster past Pettersson and Hughes.  Green/Benning both want to play dump & chase and have brought in the players for that style of play.  Again this week Benning was talking of getting the puck behind the Ds and going on the forecheck.  

The majority of the roster seems more suited to play dump & chase than a skilled creative game. 

 

GM Armstrong after winning the Cup was still saying that he believes that the league is going towards skills and quick puck movement.  He was also telling LeBrun that if you build your team only one way then you can only win one way.  You need balance so that you can beat teams in different ways. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by mll

[BMorrison 7]

I honestly think we need to fire our coach and gm at the end of the year.  They did a ok job putting down the concrete, getting some good youth and picks in the lineup over the last 3 years but to take this team to the next step we need new people.

[Schmutzhaken]

5 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I've had enough of Benning.

Yeah man. He never moves his feet on the PP and he’s constantly dumping the puck in and heading to the bench. It makes me sick. 

[kenhodgejr]

Everyone crying about loosing the game is stupid. You have no memories. We all said this year is not our year. It will probably be in two years or so when our prospects mature and we get legit players in all positions. From my perspective we have all ready accomplished a lot of our goals this year. There was so many question marks going into the year we would not know what kind of team we were until we had some games under our belts. As expected Demko has continued to improve, Gaudette is improving and has earned a full time spot on the team. Hughes has exceeded expectations. Pettersson and Boeser still continue to put up points. Miller exceeded expectations. Markstrom is solid. Myers is ok. Edler is holding our defence together. Fantenberg is a solid depth defence man, Benn is an improvement on Pouliot and Hutton. Tanev is still decent. Sutter still decent. Pearson and Leivo decent. Motte still brings it. Virtanen is slowly making improvements and increasing his trade value. We have shown that when healthy we can beat almost any team in the league. We need an elite top pairing right shot defence man who can log big minutes every game. Our own Marc Giordano minus the left shot. We also need a better top 6. Our team now has an identity. They may be grinding out games in this tough schedule but this is where adversity comes in and what builds team character. Its this character that they build together which they will rely on when battling for each other in the playoffs. There are no short cuts to the Stanley Cup. If we project forward to next season. Management can now see what areas need to be improved and focus their efforts on improving that. If all we accomplish this season is the development of team culture, identity, character, and recognizing weak spots I say thats ok. We would be best off if we just miss the playoffs and land a lottery pick in the top 3. Then in the off season make some subtle changes and improvements. Next year we make the playoffs and give a high first pick to Tampa for the Miller trade. My advise to fans is to think of the bigger picture and not sweet the small stuff. Were not supposed to dominate yet. That is still to come. Go Canucks Go!

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

This team’s coach is a problem but the team just isn’t talented enough.

 

It’s not like Petey and Boes are Draisaitl and McDavid and can haul you into the playoffs. You have Miller who’s been solid but on a contender he would most likely be a third line player; you got a bunch of tweener wingers that would all be either in the bottom 6 on a good team albeit even in NHL.

 

Outside of Hughes, theres no top 3 defencemen on this team. NONE. Next best thing is a plethora of 4/5 defencemen (Myers, Edler, Tanev) and bottom pairing players like Stetcher, Fantenberg... etc.

 

This team still needs lots and lots of help.

Edited December 18, 2019 by PetterssonOrPeterson

[Hairy Kneel]

5 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

They simply had to realize their mistake and waive him 

 

sends a huge message to the team
 

 

Please get rid of him and put a young guy on the roster who can fill in for a few games with jump and grit. 

21 is sucking energy out of our weakened line up.

[Hairy Kneel]

3 hours ago, Scottish⑦Canuck said:

Green will get the rest of the season. If we're not close to the playoffs he's gone, and then there's a huge pressure to win next year.

 

I'm not saying the coach is to blame for everything, but the team are being asked to play a style they aren't suited to.

Soft tank?

[Hairy Kneel]

Send Eriksson down get Saunter up and in the press box as he's our only physical D man option.

Big Mac in for Lievo or Sutter (who looks shaky still?) I would sit Stecher to put in a bigger toughness type D man. This helps us win board battles and improves getting the puck out easier. (Sorry Richmond bro) But Stech can come back when Edler comes back, our balance of toughness and skill have to be 50/50. We have top flight skill that needs protection. Stech and Lievo/Sutter can't provide EP with the physical element we need. 

Jake on LW obvious, Jake on PK obvious. I would sit our young stars out for a game. EP/ Boes/ Hughes.

They are looking on the verge of burn out. They are very young. They will catch up.

*Please Avto miss the playoffs*

Edited December 18, 2019 by Hairy Kneel