Reasons for Canuck Slide

[JamesB]

The Canucks have 36 points in 35 games and sit 23rd in the overall NHL standings. That is nowhere near what they need to do to make the playoffs. And, to make matters worse, they have been very cold since November, among the worst teams in the league in that time. 

 

The consensus is that the Canucks have a much team on paper than last year but, right now. they appear to headed for a very similar finish. 

 

I was expecting them to be better than that. In fact, I was expecting them to sneak into the playoffs. While I think Benning's performance has generally been poor except for the draft, I thought the team was finally on the upswing.

 

So what has gone wrong?

 

1. I am not a big Benning fan and I don't like much of what he as done aside from some good drafting. But right now he does not get my vote as the biggest problem.

 

2. My vote for the biggest problem goes to Green. I have generally liked Green and have been supportive but, let's face it, his record is not good. Even in AHL he did not have a great record. Many Green supporters argue that he has not had enough talent to work with. But this year's team is clearly under-performing relative to where they should be. I don't like the systems. The team is playing way too much dump and chase. That has to be hurting Peterson, Boeser and Horvat. Analytics suggest that maintaining puck control is very valuable, so I don't know why the Canucks (i.e. Green) are so eager to give up possession. 

 

3. One big negative indicator is that team often gets outplayed early. Not always, but most of the time, and then they are playing catch-up. That speaks to preparation. It is the coach's job to make sure the team is ready to play.  Everyone says the right things publicly but I wonder if Green is "losing the room". 

 

4. I am not sure that Green is the problem, but he is my best guess. And the season is slipping away. I would make a coaching change now and try to salvage the season. At least a new coach would give the team a chance for a fresh start. And if that does not work, I would say Benning should go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by JamesB

[We Are All Cucks]

The issue, as I see it, is a lack of coordination between the kind of team Benning has put together and the kind of team Green wants to coach. That's on Benning, really. There are deeper issues, of course, but as for the way the current team is built, you can't straddle the line between a grinder's game and a skilled game. 

[smokes]

This is part of JB's diabolical plan to aquire one more lottery pick.

[mll]

48 minutes ago, We Are All Cucks said:

The issue, as I see it, is a lack of coordination between the kind of team Benning has put together and the kind of team Green wants to coach. That's on Benning, really. There are deeper issues, of course, but as for the way the current team is built, you can't straddle the line between a grinder's game and a skilled game. 

They are working together.  Already last year's signing LeBrun or Friedman were saying it was Green's decisions. He has been part of the interview process of all the signings.  Benning has built the roster that Green wants. 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by mll

[joe-max]

1 hour ago, We Are All Cucks said:

The issue, as I see it, is a lack of coordination between the kind of team Benning has put together and the kind of team Green wants to coach. That's on Benning, really. There are deeper issues, of course, but as for the way the current team is built, you can't straddle the line between a grinder's game and a skilled game. 

Don't see that. Green wants his team to play crash&bang grinding hockey, JB gave him crash&bang, forechecking grinders (Pearson, Leivo, Horvat, Miller, Virtanen, Roussell, Sutter, Motte, Beagle). Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, if anything there is too many of them and not enough skill, but it certainly is not EP's nor BB's style.

[Bertuzzi44ever]

Having refereeing and Bettman is an absolute joke in the poll. Look at our defense and tell me that’s a playoff defense. Look at how our forward core shows up half the time scoring one or two goals or less. That’s on Bettman and the refs?

 

 

We were never as good as people thought, don’t shoot I mean...we should be good just not yet even if people are tired of waiting I say more about that in the paragraph below this one but ....

 

our October consisted of half our 9 wins coming against Detroit and KA, we beat the blues and caps but in a shootout old tie, as ive said plus in October teams aren’t playing their system Pittsburgh alone never shows up in October and have made the playoffs every year since 06-07 then the caps and blues ys Back in second meeting

 

 

and I know everyone wants to crucify green for calling us a young team but our best played are in their second third or first years. We aren’t ready 

 

anyway I think we will be good but unless we get primary and secondary scoring because our defense Myers, amongst others are no good. Over the hill. Hughes is great we need more depth up front and on the back. It will come but will Benning be around to see it. Doubt it.

 

a genius GM like people called him would have a team in the playoffs by now. His trades are awful is

draft picks land a lot and a few times not at all and his FA signings have been ok but most suck (Myers erikssson 12 million) how many points ?

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Bertuzzi44ever

[Bertuzzi44ever]

2 hours ago, We Are All Cucks said:

The issue, as I see it, is a lack of coordination between the kind of team Benning has put together and the kind of team Green wants to coach. That's on Benning, really. There are deeper issues, of course, but as for the way the current team is built, you can't straddle the line between a grinder's game and a skilled game. 

Did you just take that from the Babcock Dubas storyline? I mean I haven’t that once about out teams GM and coach? But that’s was the leafs Storyline the last two years

 

i do agree Benning is a bit out to lunch and green does a lot of things I don’t like but I don’t know if it’s then being off the same page? I just think he’s a rookie and Benning hasn’t been a genius. Not trying to be mean by the way maybe I’m oblivious to what you said and it is an issue 

[Pickly]

3 hours ago, joe-max said:

Don't see that. Green wants his team to play crash&bang grinding hockey, JB gave him crash&bang, forechecking grinders (Pearson, Leivo, Horvat, Miller, Virtanen, Roussell, Sutter, Motte, Beagle). Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, if anything there is too many of them and not enough skill, but it certainly is not EP's nor BB's style.

Really? Cause other than Tyler Motte, I haven’t seen a Canuck player throw a hit for a few games now. Right now, I can’t tell the difference between a Travis Green coached team and a Willie D coached team. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Pickly

[Tracksuit]

This is JBs  team all the cap wasting players are JB signings.both coaches have been JB hires. 

It’s time for JB to move on.

 

 

[Russ]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

2. My vote for the biggest problem goes to Green. I have generally liked Green and have been supportive but, let's face it, his record is not good. Even in AHL he did not have a great record. Many Green supporters argue that he has not had enough talent to work with. But this year's team is clearly under-performing relative to where they should be. I don't like the systems. The team is playing way too much dump and chase. That has to be hurting Peterson, Boeser and Horvat. Analytics suggest that maintaining puck control is very valuable, so I don't know why the Canucks (i.e. Green) are so eager to give up possession. 

 

 

And I give him a pass for both the bad couple years and  AHL.  In Utica, lets be honest, there was complete F all there in terms of quality prospects, the only regular NHLer he really had has been Markstrom and Virtanen (and Virtanen was screwed up by the orgranization right off the bat).  I think he got the best out of the what he had down there but that doesn't necessarily mean an AHL style will translate to NHL.  And the first couple years I gave him a write off, we were still living in the past with the Sedins and last year was a big transition year.

 

But the fact this team just doesn't seem ready to play is the most frustrating part. Dump, chase, lose the puck, not a lot of urgency..... I am just tired of it and think we need a refresh.

[JeremyCuddles]

It’s not the coach’s job to make sure these players, all of which are grown men mind you, are ready to play the game they are paid millions of dollars to play. If this team isn’t prepared to go that’s on them. Maybe they have little character. 

 

I will say the systems we’re running is not good or not what I’d like to see. Zone entry is poop. Dumping it more often than not. Even on the PP. Defensive zone coverage consists of standing in the slot and spectating. Hoping the puck hits Tanev, Edler or Marky/Demko.

[Wilbur]

Edler is the voodoo doll of this team.  When Edler is at the top of his game, the team is at the top of its game.  When Edler is injured or playing just so-so, the team struggles.

[Darius]

A big part of the problem is a general lack of talent.  I know our core of kids is enviable, but our D is below average (outside of QH) and secondary scoring is average at best.

 

Look at our D then Look at the D of the stanley cup champs.   A big mobile puck moving D that can separate guys from the puck, break up cycles, and make smart decisions vs our tire fire that cant break up cycles, contributes little offensively (outside of Quinn), and play the puck like  a hot potato out of the zone.

 

 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

So what is it then?  The systems and the coaching or the players?  You just argued against both sides

I never claimed I had a problem with this team’s starts or lack of motivation. I said “if” this team isn’t prepared it’s on them. Never said I believe it to be a problem. I was just saying it’s not the coach’s job to wake up the team or motivate them to play. Their lucrative contracts are all the motivation they should need. 

[189lb enforcers?]

At the 35 game mark, we have nearly identical stats as last season.

 

We have one more win I think, a few more goals for and a few less against. 

 

I took a screenshot last season a few times. Was looking them over... 

 

 

JB placed a different set of expectations on himself last summer, IMO.

 

TG is the bug deflector of the day though. 

 

Eventually, JB will be there holding the bag for his expensive summer. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[189lb enforcers?]

Keep rebuilding. 

 

Why wait until Tanev gets hurt like they do with Sutter? 

 

I expect there will be no roster change prior to the Christmas freeze. 

That means it buys JB time and hope for a holistic rebirth-fix for the current group to pick up their socks. I don’t like it, but that’s his way. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Keep rebuilding. 

 

Why wait until Tanev gets hurt like they do with Sutter? 

 

I expect there will be no roster change prior to the Christmas freeze. 

That means it buys JB time and hope for a holistic rebirth-fix for the current group to pick up their socks. I don’t like it, but that’s his way. 

my concern is Green and Baumer have no answer for the d group. They're going to ride Hughes into an injury and then you can put a bow on the season. 

 

The talent of the group isn't the problem. We had one really good legit 1st line, and finally a puck moving 3rd line with Rous-AG-Jake. We also had a nice shut down line with Beagle + friends. Sure Bo's line needs work but he's a workhorse and was holding that line up.

 

Watching that game live last night you could see that the coaches have lost the group, at least temporarily. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

my concern is Green and Baumer have no answer for the d group. They're going to ride Hughes into an injury and then you can put a bow on the season. 

 

The talent of the group isn't the problem. We had one really good legit 1st line, and finally a puck moving 3rd line with Rous-AG-Jake. We also had a nice shut down line with Beagle + friends. Sure Bo's line needs work but he's a workhorse and was holding that line up.

 

Watching that game live last night you could see that the coaches have lost the group, at least temporarily. 

I don't think it's temporary.

[JM_]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think it's temporary.

drop passes to nowhere/no one. Way too many individual efforts. chip, chase, rinse, repeat. No net presence. no line chemistry. 

 

how is that not coaching? 

[Pickly]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

At the 35 game mark, we have nearly identical stats as last season.

 

We have one more win I think, a few more goals for and a few less against. 

 

I took a screenshot last year a few times. Was looking them over. 

 

JB placed a different set of expectations on himself last summer, IMO.

 

TG is the bug deflector of the day though. 

 

Eventually, JB will be there holding the bag for his expensive summer. 

If the wheels completely come off this season I can’t see Benning making it through the summer. The Canucks have loads of young talent thanks to his drafting but ultimately are cash strapped due to questionable contracts (inexcusable for a ‘rebuilding’ team) and only have one sure-fire young defenceman after 5 years of him being here.