[PGT] Vegas Golden Knights at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 19, 2019

[LowerMainLander18]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess we're into semantics. I wouldn't want to use that term until Jakes a regular in the top 6. I'm not slagging Jake at all, I love what he's accomplishing. 

Hmm there are plenty power forwards playing middle 6, bottom 6 roles tho.

It's from watching his style of play. 

U don't have to score 50+ points to be labeled a power forward game in this league.

 

I can't describe him in any other way than a power forward at the moment. 

[CanucksCountry]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

(Photo by Jeff Vinnick/NHLI via Getty Images

 

(Photo by Jeff Vinnick/NHLI via Getty Images

I must say that's a new interesting style of goaltending by MAF

[peaches5]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

no but he appears to be a guy who is good on the boards, speed to burn, can potentially reach 20 goals and be a physical presence. Top 6 potential for sure is finally coming out. 

 

53 minutes ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Have u been watching the games this year?

He's a power forward. Unless u dont know what a power forward does. 

He drives wide with his speed, uses his size to protect the puck, hard to get knocked off, doesn't get pushed around, gives a solid check when the opportunity arises...

He's a prototypical North-South power forward.

 

I donno what the heck u're talking about.

I have watched every game this year and one thing is evident Virtanen is not a power forward. He doesn't use his speed. He doesn't use his size. He is definitely not a physical presence. He is scared of scrums. There is not a single person who is afraid of Virtanen. He also poses absolutely no skill. Like I've said before there is a reason why Virtanen has the teams lowest ATOI. He is so amazing according to you guys here yet he gets no ice time? Hmm, I wonder why.

 

52 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe @peaches5 was being sarcastic?  

No, I am not. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by peaches5

[LowerMainLander18]

2 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

 

I have watched every game this year and one thing is evident Virtanen is not a power forward. He doesn't use his speed. He doesn't use his size. He is definitely not a physical presence. He is scared of scrums. There is not a single person who is afraid of Virtanen. He also poses absolutely no skill. Like I've said before there is a reason why Virtanen has the teams lowest ATOI. He is so amazing according to you guys here yet he gets no ice time? Hmm, I wonder why.

 

No, I am not. 

Being a power forward does not equate to being amazing. 

It's only a style of play he brings. 

I agree he has been carefully deployed and I think that is a good thing for his development. 

 

I disagree with everything that is bolded. They are just wrong.

Whether he's scared of scrums or not a single person being afraid of JV, I can't refute that because neither of us really know what goes on down there. 

So most likely another longshot hypothesis. 

 

Good to hear ur opinion tho. 

[JM_]

28 minutes ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Hmm there are plenty power forwards playing middle 6, bottom 6 roles tho.

It's from watching his style of play. 

U don't have to score 50+ points to be labeled a power forward game in this league.

 

I can't describe him in any other way than a power forward at the moment. 

well, I guess you and I have very different definitions of 'power forward'. I thought that included top 6 producer but maybe I missed the memo. 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

 

I have watched every game this year and one thing is evident Virtanen is not a power forward. He doesn't use his speed. He doesn't use his size. He is definitely not a physical presence. He is scared of scrums. There is not a single person who is afraid of Virtanen. He also poses absolutely no skill. Like I've said before there is a reason why Virtanen has the teams lowest ATOI. He is so amazing according to you guys here yet he gets no ice time? Hmm, I wonder why.

 

No, I am not. 

he does use his speed tho to back check this year. He does use his size on the boards. So I don't agree that he isn't a physical presence. He's not an enforcer but he does use his body much better this year than before. 

[peaches5]

1 minute ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Being a power forward does not equate to being amazing. 

It's only a style of play he brings. 

I agree he has been carefully deployed and I think that is a good thing for his development. 

 

I disagree with everything that is bolded. They are just wrong.

Whether he's scared of scrums or not a single person being afraid of JV, I can't refute that because neither of us really know what goes on down there. 

So most likely another longshot hypothesis. 

 

Good to hear ur opinion tho. 

When's the last time Virtanen sent someone flying with a riveting body check? Ferland in one of his first shifts back destroyed Kerfoot. Last night with Reaves Virtanen was scared out of his mind and Reaves was just toying with him. Look at Beagle in scrums he gets in everyone's face.Then you see a scrum with Virtanen and he is trying to get back to bench as quickly as possible. He does absolutely nothing. You think he has skill? Anytime there are players that converge onto Virtanen and he tries to get around them he loses the puck on the most pathetic attempt to skilfully maneuver around them What skill does Virtanen possess? 

 

He is carefully deployed because he makes boneheaded decisions out there either risky passes in his own end or just losing the puck trying to do something he is not skilled enough to do. JT Miller does similar things but he is at least skilled enough to pull them off the majority of the time. 

 

None of this is based on hypothesis. It's based on his play which is factual evidence supporting everything. 

[peaches5]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

he does use his speed tho to back check this year. He does use his size on the boards. So I don't agree that he isn't a physical presence. He's not an enforcer but he does use his body much better this year than before. 

I am not saying he hasn't improved but to call him a power forward is a stretch. He has shown the ability in his rookie year what he can do with his size when he wants to use it. He is not using his size at all and he doesn't possess the skill to play the game he is currently playing. He has to play like Ferland and Beagle. He doesn't need to fight but he needs to throw his weight around a hell of a lot more and get into scrums and crash the net. Show some freaking emotion that isn't fear. Motte shows more grit than Virtanen and he's like 5'10. 

[Nucker 67]

Vegas are big and nasty, surprised the Canucks hung in there TBH. They played the game of their lives just to get to OT. Can't stand Reaves, just the smug look on his face as he was trying to frustrate Jake, grabbing his face shield. Reaves should've been given a penalty for that. What a puke of a human being. But I guess he's the type of guy to have on your team I guess. Fluery didn't have his best game either, so the Canucks were a bit lucky to get out fo there with 2 points IMO. But, take them and run. Will be nice to get Edler back. Also, great to see stone-hands Tanev get that beauty OT goal lol I actually laughed when he scored and attempted the Gaudette celly.

Edited December 20, 2019 by NUCKER67

[Darius]

Fantenberg has been solid.  I was impressed how he got involved in some of the scrums last night and didn’t back down.  Will be interesting to see what happens when Edler gets back.  Fant gives green some options..he could throw him in there without hesitation if one of the d is underperforming or needs a rest . 

[dpn1]

I don't know about playing afraid.  I don't think you would be able to play in the NHL if you were afraid all the time I played hockey for the U of A and had a friend that got sucker punched and knocked out.  After that happened he had post concussion syndrome and was too anxious to play with any kind of edge.  Jake isn't scared out there.

Edited December 20, 2019 by dpn1

[Yung1]

48 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

 

I have watched every game this year and one thing is evident Virtanen is not a power forward. He doesn't use his speed. He doesn't use his size. He is definitely not a physical presence. He is scared of scrums. There is not a single person who is afraid of Virtanen. He also poses absolutely no skill. Like I've said before there is a reason why Virtanen has the teams lowest ATOI. He is so amazing according to you guys here yet he gets no ice time? Hmm, I wonder why.

 

No, I am not. 

Reputation points to post ratio checks out

[LowerMainLander18]

51 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well, I guess you and I have very different definitions of 'power forward'. I thought that included top 6 producer but maybe I missed the memo. 

I think it's perfectly fine we have a bit different opinions. I value what u're saying tho. 

Never a bad thing to exchange ideas. 

[JM_]

42 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

I am not saying he hasn't improved but to call him a power forward is a stretch. He has shown the ability in his rookie year what he can do with his size when he wants to use it. He is not using his size at all and he doesn't possess the skill to play the game he is currently playing. He has to play like Ferland and Beagle. He doesn't need to fight but he needs to throw his weight around a hell of a lot more and get into scrums and crash the net. Show some freaking emotion that isn't fear. Motte shows more grit than Virtanen and he's like 5'10. 

dunno... averaging around 12 mins per night but producing on a 20 goal - 44 pt for the year pace... thats pretty damn effective use of your minutes imo. I do think he is going to grow into more of a top 6 Ferland role eventually minus the fighting, which is probably a good thing for his noggin 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

I think it's perfectly fine we have a bit different opinions. I value what u're saying tho. 

Never a bad thing to exchange ideas. 

yeah we're just haggling over a definition.

 

I like what I'm seeing so far, as I said to Peaches above, Jakes production per minute is very good this year. In points per minute he's right behind miller - Jake at .044, Miler at .045 (https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks-team-stats?season=2019&category=ICE+TIME&group=1&time=0)

[LowerMainLander18]

41 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

When's the last time Virtanen sent someone flying with a riveting body check?

You don't have to make someone fly with a hit to be efficient.... what the heck r u talking about.

 

41 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

Ferland in one of his first shifts back destroyed Kerfoot. Last night with Reaves Virtanen was scared out of his mind and Reaves was just toying with him.

There aren't many that can stand up against Reaves in this league. And JV isn't even a heavyweight... lol..

Noone needs to fight Reaves. Especially how our team is designed. 

I rather want to see noone gets hurt out of that kind of games. And from what I saw, they were a better team against tough opponent. 

Those are the games that improve us and we took advantage of that.

 

41 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

Look at Beagle in scrums he gets in everyone's face.Then you see a scrum with Virtanen and he is trying to get back to bench as quickly as possible. He does absolutely nothing. You think he has skill? Anytime there are players that converge onto Virtanen and he tries to get around them he loses the puck on the most pathetic attempt to skilfully maneuver around them What skill does Virtanen possess? 

JV did try to engage with Reaves in case u missed it. Reaves handled him pretty easily by messing with his visor but he was there. 

When Gaudette got levelled in the 3rd period, JV went straight to Marchessault to give him a few twig. U prolly missed out on that play as well.Did u at all see how much their D's back up whenever JV touches the puck?

 

41 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

 

He is carefully deployed because he makes boneheaded decisions out there either risky passes in his own end or just losing the puck trying to do something he is not skilled enough to do. JT Miller does similar things but he is at least skilled enough to pull them off the majority of the time. 

 

None of this is based on hypothesis. It's based on his play which is factual evidence supporting everything. 

Has JV make any costly turnover lately?

JV is careful in the O-zone and he cycles the puck using his size extremely well.

He doesn't lose puck battles often and he often comes out with the puck in the corner.

He does however needs to improve his vision. But he's actually improved in that aspect thru this season as well. 

 

ALL JV USES ARE HIS SPEED AND SIZE.

In today's NHL, u dont have to drop the glove every game to prove ur size. 

 

I guess u can't see what u don't know.

 

Most of the things u typed are entirely based on hypothesis. Im all for a good discussion but only when it makes sense. 

 

We don't need a goon in the team to win the cup. It would certainly help but we dont have one. And not many does around the league. 

Instead, we may need to be able to withstand physicality. And make them pay on the scoreboard which we did last night.

For this year, it will be an accomplishment just to make the playoffs.

 

[stawns]

3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I don't know that consistent is true....love Jake but, at times, he's been less than "engaged" and he's best when he's fully activated.  He played with a lot of emotion last night and I feel like he's connecting the dots and learning about what success looks like for him.  That he has to be physical, drive to the net and play with an edge.  Not passive and skating around waiting to break out.

 

He is going to be soooo good if he keeps focused.  So much potential to tap in to.

Disagree, I think that's a myth based on what other people project on to him.  He's been one of the more consistently engaged all season.

[bishopshodan]

54 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

Last night with Reaves Virtanen was scared out of his mind and Reaves

If you expect Jake to scrap with the toughest in the league you are asking too much. He's not that guy, very few are.

 

Jake is taking strides and getting better. I am happy with his performance as of late.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

If Green keeps these lines together he might just save the season and his job. Please quit the line diddling Travis. 

 

Even when a guy like Boeser is struggling, he and Petey can create a little magic once or twice a game like last night that you just don't get when you "spread out the office". No more spreading. Just offence please. 

 

Greens job isn't remotely in danger, imo.  This is exactly what anyone with an ounce of understanding thought the season would be.  A young, streaky team with high highs and low lows and not a lot in the middle.

[189lb enforcers?]

Trade Jake before his streaky play ends. 

 

Not because he sucks, but he’s a currency needed to execute trades with and because I don’t think he’s all that far from his ceiling, which is that of a fast, big body who has a ridiculously low hockey IQ for a 6 0A pick, but that’s a personal opinion. 

 

Love the BC boys more than I should, but I’m not emotionally attached to the “Just you wait - just another few years” story and the waiting for Jake to be something more than a depth player with upside, meanwhile. 

 

What does he do well that we cant replace? 

Skate? Lol

Give dirty looks? 

Streak out a points run? 

Hit occasionally, but no real feistiness or willingness to initiate and rough it up? 

 

 

Package Jake with anyone of the other obvious trade chips and go after something great. 

 

If he is all the the things I fully expect to be flamed for on here now, he should fetch a hefty return all by himself. 

 

I’ve played the If and buts game on here for over 20 years now. 

 

I’ve been victimized by my own optimism for our kids since JJ Daigneault and Nedved as well guys, but I think I know what Jake is, and isn’t, by this point in his career and thus have no problem moving on if a trade is there that helps win down the road.