Kragar Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Quite low if you never go to a . church, grocery store, shopping centre, bar, elementary or highschool, college.... or worksite. Do you realize that the majority of people who die by gunshot are not in any of those places when it happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, Kragar said: Do you realize that the majority of people who die by gunshot are not in any of those places when it happens? The US suffered more mass killings in 2019 than any year on record, according to researchers. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50936575 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kragar said: Do you realize that the majority of people who die by gunshot are not in any of those places when it happens? so gun ownership is all about just having a "feeling" of being "free" and is actually relatively useless for protection? Edited December 31, 2019 by Jimmy McGill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just now, Jimmy McGill said: so gun ownership is all about just having a "feeling" of being "free" and is actually relatives useless for protection? How did you get that from what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, Kragar said: How did you get that from what I said? it seems like you're suggesting the majority of people are safe from guns in the US. It would follow that all that gun ownership would be useless, pretty much a fashion statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 35 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: The US suffered more mass killings in 2019 than any year on record, according to researchers. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50936575 How many mass killings were gang related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: it seems like you're suggesting the majority of people are safe from guns in the US. It would follow that all that gun ownership would be useless, pretty much a fashion statement. I grew up with guns, but don’t like them around now. However, if I was in the States (which I will never be again) I’d carry. Have to down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: The US suffered more mass killings in 2019 than any year on record, according to researchers. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50936575 That is 0.00007 percent of the population. While those losses are tragic, especially at the personal level, it is hardly a blip on the safety meter of the average citizen. If it was twice as bad, or even 10 times as bad as previous years, it is still pretty low on the risk scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: I grew up with guns, but don’t like them around now. However, if I was in the States (which I will never be again) I’d carry. Have to down there. you'd be better off with a pit bull for a personal guard and some pepper spray in your nightstand. But sure i understand. The gun thing in the US is rife with bs, imo. People one one side try to minimize the human cost, some think they're Chuck Heston protecting the ranch, others want them all banned and open borders at the same time. The US is a nutty place right now. For me, I think it would be a good thing to try to reduce the number of firearms deaths regardless of the 'how' but thats just my 2 cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: you'd be better off with a pit bull for a personal guard and some pepper spray in your nightstand. But sure i understand. The gun thing in the US is rife with bs, imo. People one one side try to minimize the human cost, some think they're Chuck Heston protecting the ranch, others want them all banned and open borders at the same time. The US is a nutty place right now. For me, I think it would be a good thing to try to reduce the number of firearms deaths regardless of the 'how' but thats just my 2 cents. Don’t know if having a gun in a bedside table helps at all. However, when out and about, I’d carry down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Don’t know if having a gun in a bedside table helps at all. However, when out and about, I’d carry down there. i get that. Kinda freaky tho that you feel that way, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: i get that. Kinda freaky tho that you feel that way, don't you think? That’s why I haven’t been down there since 9 11. Last time down it felt wrong. Wife and I couldn’t wait to back up north. We were in Sandpoint Idaho though, so that might have been part of the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 36 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: it seems like you're suggesting the majority of people are safe from guns in the US. It would follow that all that gun ownership would be useless, pretty much a fashion statement. I am suggesting what you say in your first sentence. The rest is your projection. KoS's question suggested the false assumption that we are unsafe because of all the guns. That is untrue, given how widespread guns have been in our history, yet the shootings you all seemed so concerned about are more prevalent in recent times. Some people do feel safe because of their guns. Some people actually are safer because of them. For my sake, I have listed a number of reasons why I feel safe, none of which have anything to do with whether or not I have a gun. I suspect many of those reasons apply to others down here, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: That’s why I haven’t been down there since 9 11. Last time down it felt wrong. Wife and I couldn’t wait to back up north. We were in Sandpoint Idaho though, so that might have been part of the problem. is that place a dump? never heard of it. Utah would scare me, not for the guns, for the Mormons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kragar said: I am suggesting what you say in your first sentence. The rest is your projection. KoS's question suggested the false assumption that we are unsafe because of all the guns. That is untrue, given how widespread guns have been in our history, yet the shootings you all seemed so concerned about are more prevalent in recent times. Some people do feel safe because of their guns. Some people actually are safer because of them. For my sake, I have listed a number of reasons why I feel safe, none of which have anything to do with whether or not I have a gun. I suspect many of those reasons apply to others down here, too. I guess it seems to me like you're downplaying the suicides and gang deaths as unimportant or not your problem, maybe I'm wrong. If you aren't I apologize, if you are, that seems cruel. Ignoring gang issues won't help it go away. Gun restrictions may be an important part of it, now one knows for sure, but we do know that doing the same things won't help. Edited December 31, 2019 by Jimmy McGill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 20 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Canada has a proper balance Canada has a balance. Clearly a much better than the US. But not perfect. And there are other factors. Minimum wage for example. $7.50/hour average versus just over $11 in Canada. And bigger markets in the US. Why is it a factor when it comes to guns? Public education is also poorer. There is no way out for some. The guy who runs Wall Mart gets rich, you get fired stealing food because you cant make ends meet. Drown your sorrows in cheap crack. The kids are left on their own. Have you ever been to rough area's of Indianapolis, Detroit, Mississippi? Had a beer in a redneck bar in Arizona or Utah? I have. An observation I always had is how many US sitcoms have such outrageously dumb characters. The observation is that it was flabbergasting how many guys like the cook in Mels Diner (Alice), Archie Bunker, Vinnie Barbarino, and fast talking ones like Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy there are. People are dead set thick, but its lack of education or context. It occurs because kids at 11 and 13 play in the streets, take care of their 2 and 4 year old brothers and sisters. Their parents, if they have two, not already in jail or a crack house? Are both working for sh!t wages, usually two jobs after school. There is no babysitter. And a gang guy pops a gun at your teenager, makes them watch a corner while they pimp or sell drugs. Then flip the 11 year old a $50. More money than the parents have for spending cash in a week.! Its how they recruit into gangs. And they show up at your high school with a gun, tell you to show back up at the corner after school. ''Or else!'' Two years later you are a gang banger, and doing drive buys to protect that corner, your gangs turf. That is the root of the problem. That they shoot each other, because of gun laws, instead of just beating each other escalates it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Canada has a balance. Clearly a much better than the US. But not perfect. And there are other factors. Minimum wage for example. $7.50/hour average versus just over $11 in Canada. And bigger markets in the US. Why is it a factor when it comes to guns? Public education is also poorer. There is no way out for some. The guy who runs Wall Mart gets rich, you get fired stealing food because you cant make ends meet. Drown your sorrows in cheap crack. The kids are left on their own. Have you ever been to rough area's of Indianapolis, Detroit, Mississippi? Had a beer in a redneck bar in Arizona or Utah? I have. An observation I always had is how many US sitcoms have such outrageously dumb characters. The observation is that it was flabbergasting how many guys like the cook in Mels Diner (Alice), Archie Bunker, Vinnie Barbarino, and fast talking ones like Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy there are. People are dead set thick, but its lack of education or context. It occurs because kids at 11 and 13 play in the streets, take care of their 2 and 4 year old brothers and sisters. Their parents, if they have two, not already in jail or a crack house? Are both working for sh!t wages, usually two jobs after school. There is no babysitter. And a gang guy pops a gun at your teenager, makes them watch a corner while they pimp or sell drugs. Then flip the 11 year old a $50. More money than the parents have for spending cash in a week.! Its how they recruit into gangs. And they show up at your high school with a gun, tell you to show back up at the corner after school. ''Or else!'' Two years later you are a gang banger, and doing drive buys to protect that corner, your gangs turf. That is the root of the problem. That they shoot each other, because of gun laws, instead of just beating each other escalates it. Great post. I have spent time visiting East LA / Compton in Cali and i have been to Harlem in NY but these visits were 20 years ago.... I saw armed security guards in their 7-11's and in their schools..... I saw schools taking attendance monday AM and checking to see who got shot over the weekend.... Students locked in their school grounds / fenced and locked in all day to keep up intruders.... USA has a major problem with guns and anyone that minimizes it is probably living in a gated community eg Laguna beach / Newport CA. Edited December 31, 2019 by kingofsurrey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I guess it seems to me like you're downplaying the suicides and gang deaths as unimportant or not your problem, maybe I'm wrong. If you aren't I apologize, if you are, that seems cruel. Ignoring gang issues won't help it go away. Gun restrictions may be an important part of it, now one knows for sure, but we do know that doing the same things won't help. The suicides and gang issues are less concerning to my personal safety because of where and how I, and many others, live. That in no way implies that they are not issues needing attention. KoS's comments were about USA's collective safety, after all. Since the availability of guns, or the number of guns per capita, hasn't really changed significantly in accordance with the rise in shootings, wouldn't logic suggest that other factors are at work and should be addressed before looking at gun restrictions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 52 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I guess it seems to me like you're downplaying the suicides and gang deaths as unimportant or not your problem, maybe I'm wrong. If you aren't I apologize, if you are, that seems cruel. Ignoring gang issues won't help it go away. Gun restrictions may be an important part of it, now one knows for sure, but we do know that doing the same things won't help. Okay not to sound crude but suicide is a hard one to put just on guns.....if a person is looking for a way out , they will find one......sad or happy ending. so cant put the blame just on guns , that sounds more like mental health. gang death....well that sounds like a gang problem more then legal gun owner.... you talk about more gun restrictions , what's that going to help? It's just going to be a hazel every legal owner has to go threw and last I check gangs just dont care. So at the end of the day is it a gun problem or gang problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said: Okay not to sound crude but suicide is a hard one to put just on guns.....if a person is looking for a way out , they will find one......sad or happy ending. Actually suicide by gun is much more successful than other methods of attempt. Reducing gun availability would no doubt lower suicide rates / death rates in the USA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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