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dm_ranger

[Discussion] . Is Stecher our only trade chip outside of prospects?

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18 hours ago, smithers joe said:

if i’m a team with an available top 6 winger, i’m asking for markstrom or possible demko. if demko, i’ld want more, maybe a pick or good prospect. i don’t want louie, baertschi, goldobin, sutter or schaller unless their needed to make the money work. 

canucks have 3 or 4 good prospects that could make this team in the next couple of years. 

you have ask yourselves, if these players were offered to me, who would i give up for any of them and would i want them? if i take stecher and i like him, who would i be willing to give up? 

 

 

I would agree.  Any trade for a top 6 forward would have to involve one our our goalies in return.  If Markstrom signs a long term deal with us then Demko would be the one that is going.  Package him with Stecher and a prospect and you should be able to get a top 6 forward in return. 

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On 12/31/2019 at 6:25 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

No Demko is also a chip.  If Marky signs long term then it makes no sense to keep Demko around as he could be a valuable chip in a trade and he also would have to be exposed in the expansion draft.  Same with Stecher.  He is due for a big raise, won't be protected in the expansion draft and we have Rafferty waiting in the wings.

 

So we could package Demko AND Stecher which should land us a good young top 6 forward.  The only problem would be the cap space for next year.  Unless Loui retires or we can trade Sutter and Baertschi we may not have the room to add another top 6 forward.

Yep.  Have been saying all along the true price of JM next contract will likely include whatever happens to Demko.  If by some miracle we keep them both - them someone else important to the team (but most likely Demko).   Watching Murrays back-up take his spot is just another example of how fickle this position is.   Good one year, not the next.   Rare to find an elite goalie who's just pretty good on an off year.    I'm glad I'm not JB, big pressure and a lot on the line with this core.   Hope he's not giving anything more then a 3 year deal out. 

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11 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Exactly. A number 6. I don't think a #6 dman gets you a top 6 forward.

 

I realize Stecher is better than Baer and Rodin my point is that people overvalue our talent.

It does on CDC :rolleyes:

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12 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Exactly. A number 6. I don't think a #6 dman gets you a top 6 forward.

 

I realize Stecher is better than Baer and Rodin my point is that people overvalue our talent.

well, sure that is true. Thats common to most fan bases I would think. 

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Posted (edited)
On 12/31/2019 at 4:45 PM, dm_ranger said:

Let me make it clear. I don’t want to move Stecher. I’m asking if he is the only movable piece we have. And we have some depth in that spot with prospects. 
I’m also bringing this up because

Benning said he wants to add a winger this season. I’m asking how is he going to do it?

The only thing u might realistically see this year is trading stecher for a mid to late round pick just to get rid of his cap. Bring up rafferty or juolevi and sign tryamkin. If ferland is still on ltir U can only us his ltir relief with players u replace them with not on the current roster I’m not sure if signing tryamkin would fall into that category I think it does just not 100% sure. 
 

if your looking for a top six this year its be something like a tanev for toffoli Plus or tanev for galchenyuk. I don’t see la doing it. But I could see Pitt doing it. Only issue is furthers the logjam up front and weakens the defence. So unless jb sees tryamkin as a viable tanev replacement I doubt that’d happen. 
 

where you will most likely see moves is at the draft and after Loui gets his signing bonus (July 1st I think) if he doesn’t retire. 
I could see jb using 2022 1st to dump loui and sven. Maybe to Ottawa 
Assuming marky resigns demko is the piece that gets us a top 6 forward. Maybe a mantha type player (Not saying him exactly just an example) mid 20s Top 6 player that can produce

Or at the draft demko is probably valued a bottom half 1st round pick but does a team like Chicago if they miss the playoffs Or just make it and are around pick 10 to 20 do they try to make a move for demko cheap starting goalie for a team that isn’t ready to rebuild. Going from 11 million invested in goalies to 1 mill plus backup could reopen there competitive window.

Van would get a solid pick plus if it’s close to 10 that Russian goalie might be in that area 17 years old by the time markys projected contract would be ending he’d be early 20s

 

so all in all I don’t see them being able to do much by this trade deadline unless jb dumps useless contracts earlier than I think he might

Edited by Bure1010
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9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I would agree.  Any trade for a top 6 forward would have to involve one our our goalies in return.  If Markstrom signs a long term deal with us then Demko would be the one that is going.  Package him with Stecher and a prospect and you should be able to get a top 6 forward in return. 

That said salary is still a problem.    Some money is off the books, but not much.  Enough to give raises and replace guys we don't re-sign for Peter to pay Paul.   Think that Ferland out long term is part of JB motivation...that said he's more of a middle six guy.  

 

As far as Stetcher goes - our right side is weak.  Tryamkin can play both sides but it's his off side.  Don't see Stetcher going anywhere unless it's to upgrade his side.  We don't have any depth on that side for now.

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12 minutes ago, Bure1010 said:

The only thing u might realistically see this year is trading stecher for a mid to late round pick just to get rid of his cap. Bring up rafferty or juolevi and sign tryamkin. If ferland is still on ltir U can only us his ltir relief with players u replace them with not on the current roster I’m not sure if signing tryamkin would fall into that category I think it does just not 100% sure. 
 

if your looking for a top six this year its be something like a tanev for toffoli Plus or tanev for galchenyuk. I don’t see la doing it. But I could see Pitt doing it. Only issue is furthers the logjam up front and weakens the defence. So unless jb sees tryamkin as a viable tanev replacement I doubt that’d happen. 
 

where you will most likely see moves is at the draft and after Loui gets his signing bonus (July 1st I think) if he doesn’t retire. 
I could see jb using 2022 1st to dump loui and sven. Maybe to Ottawa 
Assuming marky resigns demko is the piece that gets us a top 6 forward. Maybe a mantha type player (Not saying him exactly just an example) mid 20s Top 6 player that can produce

Or at the draft demko is probably valued a bottom half 1st round pick but does a team like Chicago if they miss the playoffs Or just make it and are around pick 10 to 20 do they try to make a move for demko cheap starting goalie for a team that isn’t ready to rebuild. Going from 11 million invested in goalies to 1 mill plus backup could reopen there competitive window.

Van would get a solid pick plus if it’s close to 10 that Russian goalie might be in that area 17 years old by the time markys projected contract would be ending he’d be early 20s

 

so all in all I don’t see them being able to do much by this trade deadline unless jb dumps useless contracts earlier than I think he might

A lot of moving parts and the central metric really is our cap.  We have a glut of middle six guys.  It's also why we aren't at the bottom of the standings.  Some will not get another contract and be let go for nothing if we are in the playoffs next year which I believe we will be.   Podz and Hogs both look like slam dunks at the moment and Lind has a decent chance of making a good addition to a third line.   

 

Nice that we aren't chocked full of AHL players and replacement guys anymore.  Bear is absolutely NHL caliber - .5 PPG and 20 goal scorer over 82 games.  I'd like TG to get inventive and add him to the team.  Move JV to the first line, re-unite the BBB line and put Pearson on the third line - just to give the team extra offense and to showcase Bear.  It's the only way we can trade him and all his cap space.   Then we could look at adding another top six guy salary wise.   Best thing to do right now on that front is nothing IMO

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34 minutes ago, IBatch said:

A lot of moving parts and the central metric really is our cap.  We have a glut of middle six guys.  It's also why we aren't at the bottom of the standings.  Some will not get another contract and be let go for nothing if we are in the playoffs next year which I believe we will be.   Podz and Hogs both look like slam dunks at the moment and Lind has a decent chance of making a good addition to a third line.   

 

Nice that we aren't chocked full of AHL players and replacement guys anymore.  Bear is absolutely NHL caliber - .5 PPG and 20 goal scorer over 82 games.  I'd like TG to get inventive and add him to the team.  Move JV to the first line, re-unite the BBB line and put Pearson on the third line - just to give the team extra offense and to showcase Bear.  It's the only way we can trade him and all his cap space.   Then we could look at adding another top six guy salary wise.   Best thing to do right now on that front is nothing IMO

Baer was up for a cup of coffee looked bad slow outta place no to negative value

 

why I said package him and loui with a first to get rid of cap. 
 

demko is our most valuable piece if we wanted to add some good value

 

the question I was referring to was tanev for an expiring contract forward Equal money is only thing we would be able to do this year unless a cap dump was done as well

 

tryamkin coming back is a real possibility for this team that could help but need to free up cap (unless he fits the ltir usage if ferlands out still)

 

so a lot of moving parts u say... not really just multiple options not saying all or any of these will happen just thoughts I’d like to see explored

 

and just sitting and waiting for bad contracts to run out isn’t what a good gm should do. Your philosophy wait two years it’ll fix itself. Wasting petey and Hughes elcs

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bure1010 said:

Baer was up for a cup of coffee looked bad slow outta place no to negative value

 

why I said package him and loui with a first to get rid of cap. 
 

demko is our most valuable piece if we wanted to add some good value

 

the question I was referring to was tanev for an expiring contract forward Equal money is only thing we would be able to do this year unless a cap dump was done as well

 

tryamkin coming back is a real possibility for this team that could help but need to free up cap (unless he fits the ltir usage if ferlands out still)

 

so a lot of moving parts u say... not really just multiple options not saying all or any of these will happen just thoughts I’d like to see explored

 

and just sitting and waiting for bad contracts to run out isn’t what a good gm should do. Your philosophy wait two years it’ll fix itself. Wasting petey and Hughes elcs

You missed the point but I wasn't very clear.  Adding to our cap by another top six player is bad management considering we have EP and Hughes coming up.  We won't shed any payroll without retention - which is something I'd like to see the team avoid as it will further bung things up when we are at our peak contending portion of the cycle (EP and Hughes on second contracts).   By standing pat I mean don't add more cap like we did the last two years with UFAs - or by a trade that requires more money then we can afford.

 

Sure he could probably trade Pearson, JV, Leivo and maybe Tanev, Benn, Fattenberg and Demko obviously.  The guys that are valuable are because they are producing more then the value of their contracts.  However those are also the guys we need to balance the cap and if we do trade them they also need to be replaced.   That's something that I rarely see considered both in trade proposals and the replies.  You suggest Tanev is used for a forward of equal cap hit - but then who the heck replaces him?  Maybe Tryamkin - that's a fabble at this point.  The way his tweets string some fans along on this site is almost embarrassing.   We don't even know if he can play a top four spot in the NHL.  The KHL is a big step down and who really knows what's happened to his development- hard to gauge. 

 

 

On Demko.  I'm sure teams would like him but we'd be lucky to get more then a second and B level prospect.  Every other team is preparing for the ED and unless they are confident he'd make a good number one they will stay away from adding him.  By signing JM he's almost as good as gone, either to Seattle or a terrible return on a trade.  He has to be a better option then they currently have - it's also why nobody wanted MAF who was shopped heavily - AND they also had to pay Vegas a second to take him.   So Demko has less value then people think.  At least until after the ED.   JB has his plans no doubt - and maybe one regular can be traded at the deadline simply because we have extras - but it won't garner a big return and until that happens (shedding payroll) we won't be adding anything because we can't afford it.  

 

Tanev won't be traded this year.  We don't have any right side depth.  Tryamkin shoots left but can play both sides - same with OJ although he's hopefully Edlers replacement long term.  Stetcher won't be going anywhere unless a RHD comes back the other way too.  

 

Edit:  It's not my philosophy- it's the reality of all our current players contracts that determines this.   Roussel, Benn, Fattbenberg, Schaller, Pearson etc come off the books before they need to be paid.  Sure that adds up to more then enough - however most of these guys have to be replaced by cheaper options to pay the difference.   It's possible one core player will have to be traded for a younger cheaper option and or picks to make this work.  Or trade our first for one year of LEs contract which is entirely possible like TO just did. 

 

This and next year - are factually our best cap window to pursue a cup.  Both LE and Luongo cabboshed this entirely.  Otherwise we could have a Hoffman like guy on the team right now.  Thems the breaks.   Have to work with our core guys on their second contracts instead.  PIT took full advantage of Malkin and Crosby and MAF when they could on their ELCs and won a cup.  CHI did too and their second contracts.  We can't unfortunately - because management was one year off on their predictions.   Bittersweet. 

Edited by IBatch

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rychicken said:

wE I It does on CDC :rolleyes:

Yep.  When JB has shopped all but his untouchables the past two trade deadlines and there no takers - Vanek scores 50 and we got Motte three years ago - love the guy but whoppie let's have a real trade to talk about.    

 

Nothing is going to happen.  Unless he includes Hogs or Pods or a trade that will shake us up with how we got taken with Demko (ED looming).   We've got a glut of middle six forwards and four bona-fide top six forwards which we won't be trading.   Pearson and JV teams of course would be interested in but why the heck would we trade them?  

 

Sorry to be the harbinger of reality - but what we've got is what we got.  No firsts will be coming our way unless we flip Miller.  Demko isn't going to get us a return that we will stomach.

 

Tanev isn't gong anywhere.  What will we do bring up Woo?   We are glued and stuck forever with Sutter,  Beagle, Ferland and maybe Roussel.   

 

Levio comes back and continues at his pace might get a second (again why would we bother)

 

Next season we might be trading a first to dump LE.  Nobody is taking him this year.  

 

ANY trades we have will be minor ones this year.  Including Demko given the return.   

 

So just put on your seatbelts and enjoy the ride - the table is set.  We have to live with it and really it's not so bad. 

Edited by IBatch

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Canucks have options to upgrade the Top 6, but we can't expect to trade Eriksson and Schaller and hope we get someone good. Good players aren't cheap. Looking at some of the players/prospects they have, to possibly trade: 

 

Pearson

Sutter

Baertschi

Goldobin

Stecher

Lockwood

Lind

Gadjovich

DiPietro

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Strictly as trade assets? Or trades at all?

Depends upon the desperation level.

While it could be stated right now that this team is "competitive" with other teams it has been happening almost injury free.

Ferland never helped the team last year and didn't really do anything Zack hasn't done either.

Sutter might be done, like what happened in San Jose with Jonathan Cheechoo, he just didn't recover from the surgeries. Leivo helped but was essentially a 3rd line player.

So while the team might be close to a playoff spot, they have not won 16 games in 25 game stretch in I don't know how long, they are rarely even able to fill in for injuries over that period, so no they are not a playoff team unless other teams tank.

 

They also have fewer young players than most other teams, this is a NOW team, even a future is hard to see with how few draft picks are making the team or making an impact. Vancouver is quickly following the Edmonton path the only difference is the Canucks are getting and relying more on good to outstanding goal tending. As a comparison, Buffalo - Pettersson - Eichel, Eichel wins marginally, Dahlin to Hughes, Dahlin wins he is two years younger than Hughes, Boeser to ?, this may be where the Nucks are ahead but after that the comparisons are mostly young with a future vs old looking at retirement with the Nux on the retirement side.

 

The issue being that the fans have been subjected to losing for so long that a playoff appearance is becoming the end all, be all and unfortunately Benning seems to be in that category.

 

At any rate it if the one in charge thinks this is a championship team or a playoff team at any costs to save his job, which is stupid because he will be paid his contract regardless of outcome, just whether he screws the future more. He wants to get back his first round pick? From which team? A cup finalist, a 30th or 31rst for a top notch asset? Sure let's make the strong team even stronger, oops already have done that giving Tampa a top notch player. Want that first back that might be in the 20's or even a lottery, Boeser and Eriksson together to Minnesota for their first and Greenway. A fire hydrant will get 60 points playing with Pettersson.

 

That makes a difference in what is a tradable asset.

 

Sure Stecher rumors are he is asking so why not, he by himself doesn't get enough of a return

 

 

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2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

While it could be stated right now that this team is "competitive" with other teams it has been happening almost injury free.

Edler missed 10 games

Suttter            18 

Roussel          28

Ferland           26

2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

The issue being that the fans have been subjected to losing for so long that a playoff appearance is becoming the end all,

For  many, this is true. And "anything can happen in the playoffs". So it is not hard to see why many want a playoff berth this season.

2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

At any rate it if the one in charge thinks this is a championship team or a playoff team at any costs to save his job, which is stupid because he will be paid his contract regardless of outcome, just whether he screws the future more.

I'd say the drafting of Podkolzin is evidence that JB is not managing "for his job".

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