RowdyCanuck Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Affirmative action is specifically designed to help combat WP because data and research shows that white people are more likely to get the job over an equally qualified candidate of colour. The argument against AA is that it negates Merritt, but that is not the case, as it is 100% used when candidates are equally qualified. I agree but I know some companies get tax breaks for hiring woman...... I don't know if that applies to others or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 33 minutes ago, 112 said: Topically: my understanding of 'privilege,' which is a definition a lot of people on here don't seem aware of or share, is that it is not exclusive to race but rather can be used to describe sexed/gendered advantages in one's culture/society, wealth growing up or status-by-birth in one's culture/society, things like height or attractiveness, physical ability versus disability, etc.. I do not do much reading on these topics and think most people who do tend to live within too narrow scopes to have good things to say on it either way... but as far as I know, the general belief among what has come to mean 'SJW' on this site is that /everyone/ has privileges and disprivileges, just in different ways and to disproportionate or incongruent and wrong effects for some people within all societies. I don't think this is ridiculous, honestly? People like enforcer are completely out of touch with what it is like to be a coloured and poor immigrant in the country, which is the only reason he could come to interpret polices meant to give these historically-marginalized groups fair representation within the forces that impose laws on them as somehow indicative that he must have, in reference to other ethnicities, a racial disprivilege--having lived in Canada as a white person since at least as long to have been able to apply to the RCMP in 1992. I have been well below the poverty line for most of my life at 23; I was on-and-off homeless for 4 years at one point. I looked awful and did sketchy things. I am not a privileged person. But I am not going to go around and claim I don't have a racial privilege for being white when throughout all that I was never rolled up to or stopped by a cop for drinking a monster energy drink, but that it was just a w/e common thing if one of my native friends were walking down the street and drinking one. I saw it happen to them and they just shrugged it off; but it seemed like very stupid profiling to me and made me realize where I lucked out in my non-character-indicative traits. Some people have /racial/ disprivileges, and it hurts the effort to rid our country and the globe of them when the attitude toward affirmative action within the scope of something so sacred as the application of law is to go into a CDC thread and make silly simplified jokes about it. Which one is it? because they are very different - especially towards the end of your opening paragraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, riffraff said: Which one is it? because they are very different - especially towards the end of your opening paragraph Is privilege not a judgment apropos advantage? Explain what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, 112 said: Is privilege not a judgment apropos advantage? Explain what you mean. Not to me. You are describing looks and or height, etc. How are those physical attributes a privilege? Edited January 7, 2020 by riffraff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, riffraff said: Not to me. You are describing looks and or height, etc. How are those physical attributes a privilege? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 112 said: I don’t follow. I asked you a question which you answered with a question to me and then followed up with the above. to me an advantage can be earned or cultivated by an individual whereas a privilege is granted by society. edit: I see you were using herrfunk as your answer. I disagree with that post as well relative to being “tall” is a privilege. Edited January 7, 2020 by riffraff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: How does racism being so institutionalized back in the day, where you could be the "wrong kind" of white, invalidate what I've said? I normally wouldn't even mention it, but since you brought it up, you may want to look into the studies which examined incomes and career opportunities based on height. Spoiler: tall people tend come out ahead. ( for the pun) So being tall is a privilege? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, riffraff said: So being tall is a privilege? It’s situational. Being tall tends to be an advantage in business settings but it’s not as great in a foxhole. I know you want to scoff at the assertion but yes, there is actually research which found correlation between height and salary. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/679675?seq=1 Edited January 7, 2020 by HerrDrFunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: It’s situational. Being tall tends to be an advantage in business settings but it’s not as great in a foxhole. I know you want to scoff at the assertion but yes, there is actually research which found correlation between height and salary. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/679675?seq=1 Scoff is a bit strong lol. I agree with you. Being attractive, tall or whatever does get you ahead in certain situations. People want to be with hot people. But I feel this is different than a privilege. if I want to be taller or more attractive there are measures I can take to improve that (of course genetics will dictate most of that)....therefore I feel that “advantage” is a more accurate descriptor. An advantage is more likely to be earned than privilege. salma hayak has two advantages not privileges. Edited January 7, 2020 by riffraff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, 112 said: uhh... maybe we should negate Merritt... Lol not sure what I typed to make autocorrect go to Merritt, but they're basically negated anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, RowdyCanuck said: I agree but I know some companies get tax breaks for hiring woman...... I don't know if that applies to others or not. Men are a privileged group who have been experiencing many benefits for years over women. The unfortunate reality is policies like affirmative action must be in place to help balance out diversity in the workforce, or else, left to our own devices, men (white men in western society, in particular) will continue to unjustly dominate. What I don't understand with critics of these sorts of policies is why they get so upset over them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 30 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Men are a privileged group who have been experiencing many benefits for years over women. The unfortunate reality is policies like affirmative action must be in place to help balance out diversity in the workforce, or else, left to our own devices, men (white men in western society, in particular) will continue to unjustly dominate. What I don't understand with critics of these sorts of policies is why they get so upset over them? i have no problem with that( as a business owner I like tax breaks where I can find them) , I have a problem when people just say white privilege when really they mean something else..... everyone has their crosses to bare some heavier then others but still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: i have no problem with that( as a business owner I like tax breaks where I can find them) , I have a problem when people just say white privilege when really they mean something else..... everyone has their crosses to bare some heavier then others but still.... I, for one, cannot stand it when some people use the term white privilege as a "checkmate" response. It's definitely overused in some contexts, however, it is absolutely a real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jester13 said: I, for one, cannot stand it when some people use the term white privilege as a "checkmate" response. It's definitely overused in some contexts, however, it is absolutely a real thing. I agree and even if you look over my posts , I do agree but in today's world I don't think it's as common today...if that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: I agree and even if you look over my posts , I do agree but in today's world I don't think it's as common today...if that makes sense... To some extent I can agree that's it gotten better, but even just reading some posts in this thread (not yours) will show there's a long way to go before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 hours ago, 112 said: Just that you once identified as a liberal/left person does not mean you ever were one. I think a prerequisite to calling oneself a liberal should be an understanding of set theory such that you don't conflate 'PC crap' and its proponents with the set of all liberals/liberalism itself. What do you mean 'taken over'? You're confusing the pop news and the world's social media 'highlights' with sociopolitical reality. There's nothing valuable in that. The reality is that, likewise conservatives, liberals hold,--as a group,--diverse and many opinions. I think you're making a mistake when you abandon describing yourself like that simply because some people you disagree with have taken to the same /general/ ideology and began describing themselves similarly. You approach understanding of this when you remark that the reasonable majority agrees on most issues; but then you fail when you go down to drawing such a direct line between the views/actions/'PC'ness of a small subset of people who call themselves liberals and the banner of liberalism itself. No definition I know of liberalism equates so much to 'political correctness' as it does 'freedom and tolerance.' Do you rather identify with the racists within our conservatives? Or do you just go around telling people you're politically agnostic now? I mean you're right. The modern day, new generation liberal is not very liberal at all. All I'm saying is the extremes have taken over the media headlines and the majority of people seem to be on the same page. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 16 hours ago, riffraff said: Scoff is a bit strong lol. I agree with you. Being attractive, tall or whatever does get you ahead in certain situations. People want to be with hot people. But I feel this is different than a privilege. if I want to be taller or more attractive there are measures I can take to improve that (of course genetics will dictate most of that)....therefore I feel that “advantage” is a more accurate descriptor. An advantage is more likely to be earned than privilege. salma hayak has two advantages not privileges. I think that comes down to semantics but whether you call it a privilege or an advantage. However, I also think height is pretty damn low on the physical attributes we should worry about getting you ahead in life. I wouldn't even have mentioned height but it got brought up and I thought the studies done on the correlation between it and wages were interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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