Chucky Cheese

[Kragar]

15 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Two wrongs don't make a right. Seems to be a fine line for what is defined as a charge, but like I said, if he were a Canuck, I bet many would be arguing against why it's not a charge.

 

Kass should've challenged and stopped when he didn't want to go. Even after a punch or two would've been "okay" but he kept going looking to injure.

 

My bad on him continuing after as well. Either way he got a few licks on him knowingly that he will get set off at some point. I agree that Tkachuk is a dirty player, but can't call him dangerous and then condone Kassian's dangerous actions as well. Deserving or not, a dangerous play is a dangerous play.

From an outside perspective, you are right.  When you are the one getting hit, sometimes reason goes out the window. Kass did go too far, and I don't have an issue with the punishment he got.  I do have an issue with the how Tkachuk was handled by the officials, and I can understand Kass losing control as a result.

[the grinder]

42 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I think it's just as funny that if Tkachuk were a Canuck, he would be praised for his physicality and probably be celebrated for those hits. Just like how we supported Burrows and Kesler and their antics.

 

People are praising Kassian's actions and yet they were dangerous with intent to injure as well. It just seems contradictory for many to be calling out Tkachuk here (he's certainly done much worse), but at the same time praise and condone further idiocy.

 

I get guys like Tkachuk (and Marchand, etc) are scums of the league, but then you dish out a big clean hit on him in a similar fashion (since it was deemed clean for him) or you challenge him to a fight and let him turtle and embarrass himself. Challenge him to fights all night like we did with Matheson and let him run. Throwing punches when they're down is just as cowardly of an action as turtling itself. This is why Tkachuk actually continued to target him in that game even after this because he knew he had a short fuse and would self destruct himself. This is what Tkachuk does that makes his antics effective to intentionally draw that reaction.

well at least kesler and burrows would fight  ,   M.T  hits were dirty  , he took more than 2 steps to hit kassian  , hell M.T. jumped in the first hit , the first 2 hits were definitely charging  and the refs did nothing , they just let it go  , Would the refs let those hits go if it was Mc David?   I don't think so   

 

then the third hit happened   and again  it was more than 2 steps , no call  again  , so im glad Kassian  did something because the refs aren't protecting him from headshots  / charging  .  So again the nhl is sending the wrong message ,  headshots charging are ok  depending on the player . Reffing is such a joke  look at van/min game  how many calls for barely hitting  a guy  and then you see the replays of MT vs kass and no calls on any of those hits ,  

[McBackup]

5 hours ago, Darius said:

if that was Burrows or Kesler running at a flame tough player and then they refused to drop the gloves ... i can only imagine what Flames fans would be saying.

 

Funny how they spent years crying about Burrows and Kesler and calling the Sedins soft....and here they are with guys like Johnny and softer than Charmin Monahan with Tkachuck running around behind them.

 

 

Yeah its pretty gross. Say what you want about Kesler, and I'll admit Burrows probably crossed the line more than a few times, but I can't recall seeing them go out and deliberately try to hurt someone with a cheapshot, which is Tkachuk's MO. They'll cry and screech about how Burr and Kesler were trash people and Canucks fans are horrible for supporting, them turn around and swoon over this brat. Its rank hypocrisy at its finest.

[spur1]

Would love to see Kassian lay out Johnny with a similar hit and then troll Tkachuk. 

[ruilin96]

Teemu Selanne supports Kassian:

[Alburdasux]

How can two millionaires be so angry? Take your money and get the hell out of this $&!#ty province.

[GB5]

54 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

Teemu Selanne supports Kassian:

 

Teemu = respect.

[luckylager]

Tkupchuck was running around. 

Players code dictates that if you're gonna take a run at a guy, and not just once, that takes his helmet off, you are indeed challenging him to a fight based off of your actions towards him. If you don't fight when challenged, after taking those runs, you're a bitch.

 

Tkupchuck is now a bitch, wallowing in the shallow "well we won" pool with the likes of Ratchand and Cookie.

 

Kass had every right to pound the pukes head in. Both hits were targeted runs/charges at a player.

 

There's an old adage- Run with the dogs and you'll get bit.

The kid wants to play tough but can't back it up.

Spot picking wimp. I look forward to watching him get fed punches for years. He's going to get challenged all over the place for a while.

 

I wonder if he'd even fight Schaller? Doubt it because Schally would rock him.

[luckylager]

In all honesty

 

I WONDER WHAT HIS DAD THINKS.

 

I bet Keith texted him and called him a wimp. I hated his Dad (as a player), but 100% he drops the gloves with Kass there. Gloves woulda been off mid hit actually

[theo5789]

3 hours ago, the grinder said:

well at least kesler and burrows would fight  ,   M.T  hits were dirty  , he took more than 2 steps to hit kassian  , hell M.T. jumped in the first hit , the first 2 hits were definitely charging  and the refs did nothing , they just let it go  , Would the refs let those hits go if it was Mc David?   I don't think so   

 

then the third hit happened   and again  it was more than 2 steps , no call  again  , so im glad Kassian  did something because the refs aren't protecting him from headshots  / charging  .  So again the nhl is sending the wrong message ,  headshots charging are ok  depending on the player . Reffing is such a joke  look at van/min game  how many calls for barely hitting  a guy  and then you see the replays of MT vs kass and no calls on any of those hits ,  

The NHL is a whole different issue. The point I'm trying to make is that people are complaining about how dangerous Tkachuk is, yet support Kassian's dangerous intent to injure actions as well. I'm certain had a Canuck thrown the same hits as Tkachuk did, that player would be getting praised. Probably embarrassed for the turtling, but if it helped the team win the game, then it'll be viewed as simply a player doing what it takes to win. I made a comment earlier this year about Kassian being his own nuclear deterrent and it was a considerably liked comment and this demonstrated it and now Kassian is being praised for it. I just think it's contradictory.

[the grinder]

41 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

The NHL is a whole different issue. The point I'm trying to make is that people are complaining about how dangerous Tkachuk is, yet support Kassian's dangerous intent to injure actions as well. I'm certain had a Canuck thrown the same hits as Tkachuk did, that player would be getting praised. Probably embarrassed for the turtling, but if it helped the team win the game, then it'll be viewed as simply a player doing what it takes to win. I made a comment earlier this year about Kassian being his own nuclear deterrent and it was a considerably liked comment and this demonstrated it and now Kassian is being praised for it. I just think it's contradictory.

well they both play in the nhl  , sure I get what your point is  but my point is after being charge/runned at 2 times with no calls  kassian didn't do anything till the 3rd hit  ,he waited for a call to be made and no call was made . so what message are the refs saying to kassian ,   we are letting mt run wild and its up to you to protect your self ,   nhl want headshots out of the game so why are the refs allowing that crap  . it would be different it was only one bad hit but 3  So  don't blame kassian for his reaction blame the refs .  3 dirty hits with no calls should equal somebody getting punched 

 

 

[theo5789]

21 minutes ago, the grinder said:

well they both play in the nhl  , sure I get what your point is  but my point is after being charge/runned at 2 times with no calls  kassian didn't do anything till the 3rd hit  ,he waited for a call to be made and no call was made . so what message are the refs saying to kassian ,   we are letting mt run wild and its up to you to protect your self ,   nhl want headshots out of the game so why are the refs allowing that crap  . it would be different it was only one bad hit but 3  So  don't blame kassian for his reaction blame the refs .  3 dirty hits with no calls should equal somebody getting punched 

 

 

I'm saying that the NHL certainly has its flaws. But the actions need to be looked at in isolation. Whatever justification is made, the bottom line is people are crucifying Tkachuk for being a dangerous player, but Kassian's actions are also dangerous and being praised. The NHL needs to get their act together, but that doesn't take away Kassian's actions being dangerous and foolish as well. I'm not defending the NHL or Tkachuk. I just think it's contradictory to be praising Kassian for the similar reasons as why Tkachuk is being run down for.

 

A punch I could understand, but to be swinging away like a mad man on a cowering player doesn't prove anything. Get a lick in and tell him to get up and take it like a man. You then do what it takes to get him to fight like target Gaudreau with a solid clean hit when he's on the ice and force him to answer the bell if challenging him doesn't do anything.

[Darius]

15 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I think it's just as funny that if Tkachuk were a Canuck, he would be praised for his physicality and probably be celebrated for those hits. Just like how we supported Burrows and Kesler and their antics.[/quote]

What is even more amusing is people that say "yeah you would love him if he was a Canuck"....as if the player cannot be criticized. 

 

Would I like a 70pt winger on the team, sure.  Would I like a guy to act like an arse and attempt to injure other players...no.  I thought Matt Cooke was an idiot and I cringed at some of Burrows and Keslers antics.   And quite honestly when i examine  Burrows and Kesler's long careers i dont recall as many attempts to injure as Tkachuk has already committed in the past 3 years.

 

Its obvious if he put on a Canuck jersey he would get more support, but thats what fans do - they usually give the benefit of the doubt to a player on their favorite team.  That doesnt mean that fans cannot be critical of guys like Marchand, Tkachuk etc .

 

 

Quote

 

People are praising Kassian's actions and yet they were dangerous with intent to injure as well. It just seems contradictory for many to be calling out Tkachuk here (he's certainly done much worse), but at the same time praise and condone further idiocy.

 

The difference is Tkachuk instigated the whole situation by going out of his way to blind side Kassian  multiple times. Its not like Kassian jumped innocent Johnny Gaudreau.

 

Even though the hits on Kassian were deemed to be "clean" several hockey players and analysts have come out stating that the plays were dirty. The actions of a winger (MT) leaving his position to go out of his way to blind side a player already engaged with a defenceman behind a visual obstruction (the net) are viewed as less than honorable - if everyone did it there would be far more injuries. 

 

Tkachuck played dirty, in the end he got his lunch fed to him.  As a fan i think that the constructs of the game that are supposed to deter the actions of Tkachuk were deficient so in my mind the only avenue left as a deterrent was for the player to police the game himself.

 

Tkachuk knew what he was doing.  He didnt even have the honour to drop the gloves and defend himself - in my mind that makes him even more of a rat.

 

You talking down to people (sorry to sound harsh but i think thats what you are doing here) about how they should perceive the situation doesnt change how fans usually pick sides and  define an antagonist and a protagonist in every controversial situation.     

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Darius

[189lb enforcers?]

The Code

[Darius]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

The Code

haha I just realized that these two words sum up my long diatribe above....

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, Darius said:

haha I just realized that these two words sum up my long diatribe above....

It used to be that there was an expectation, a culture within the game at any level, which required an equal and opposite reaction for every liberty you took against the opposition.

 

More likely than not though, it wasn’t an equal measure of a slash, crosscheck or whatever other unsportsmanlike retaliatory that you or your team would absorb, instead the ante would be raised a full measure. 

 

Transgressions in the Game were once regulated by the Code, which you fully understand. Today, enforcement is done by proxy, through media shaming, fines and whatever vicarious punishment the league sees fit. 

 

Cherry saw this all coming decades ago. 

 

For a guy who was on the air for such a long time, you’d think he’d have gotten more things wrong and there’d be a big list, but his earliest comments about behaviour relating to visors, etc, can now be regarded as leading KPIs, IMO. 

 

 

FTR, I’d take both players on my playoff team. 

[Russ]

17 hours ago, Darius said:

Spector has an interesting article on sportsnet right now quoting other players from other teams regarding the antics by Tkachuk.  Basically its a gutless move to leave your position as a winger and blind side a guy who is in a puck battle behind the net ...where the player is engaged by a D man and the net acts as a visual obstruction.

 

Spector is a clown but his points make sense. 

Well Spector can't go against it when virtually every former NHL player as sided with Kassian and said Matthew play coming down blind side with no intent on the puck.  Upshall came out yesterday and said he had done the same play and said he knows its crap and dangerous and isn't allowed.  Hell 4-5 strides with no glide right away should be easy enough to call a charge right off the bat.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Russ

[theo5789]

25 minutes ago, Darius said:

What is even more amusing is people that say "yeah you would love him if he was a Canuck"....as if the player cannot be criticized. 

 

Would I like a 70pt winger on the team, sure.  Would I like a guy to act like an arse and attempt to injure other players...no.  I thought Matt Cooke was an idiot and I cringed at some of Burrows and Keslers antics.   And quite honestly when i examine  Burrows and Kesler's long careers i dont recall as many attempts to injure as Tkachuk has already committed in the past 3 years.

 

Its obvious if he put on a Canuck jersey he would get more support, but thats what fans do - they usually give the benefit of the doubt to a player on their favorite team.  That doesnt mean that fans cannot be critical of guys like Marchand, Tkachuk etc .

 

 

 

The difference is Tkachuk instigated the whole situation by going out of his way to blind side Kassian  multiple times. Its not like Kassian jumped innocent Johnny Gaudreau.

 

Even though the hits on Kassian were deemed to be "clean" several hockey players and analysts have come out stating that the plays were dirty. The actions of a winger (MT) leaving his position to go out of his way to blind side a player already engaged with a defenceman behind a visual obstruction (the net) are viewed as less than honorable - if everyone did it there would be far more injuries. 

 

Tkachuck played dirty, in the end he got his lunch fed to him.  As a fan i think that the constructs of the game that are supposed to deter the actions of Tkachuk were deficient so in my mind the only avenue left as a deterrent was for the player to police the game himself.

 

Tkachuk knew what he was doing.  He didnt even have the honour to drop the gloves and defend himself - in my mind that makes him even more of a rat.

 

You talking down to people (sorry to sound harsh but i think thats what you are doing here) about how they should perceive the situation doesnt change how fans usually pick sides and  define an antagonist and a protagonist in every controversial situation.     

 

I am not talking down to people. I just think it's contradictory to crucify Tkachuk for being a dangerous player while condoning another dangerous act. I'm not defending Tkachuk at all here. I just don't think two wrongs make a right. I get why people enjoy seeing someone like Tkachuk get what he "deserves", but that doesn't take away the fact that Kassian was attempting to injure with whatever justification is involved. I guess another way to phrase it is to not stoop to their level.

 

I'd accept a punch and then a challenge to fight and let him be unwilling and cower. It shows that you aren't going to put up with it and you're the bigger person here while he remains the rat he is. Instead he goes overboard, costs the team the game (didn't fire up the team as some claim this action would and maybe even incites the opposition).

 

I get that Tkachuk and Marchand types are rats, but I wouldn't wish injury on them, just embarrassment (like Marchand skating over the puck in the shootout, or Matheson cowering all night).

[Russ]

16 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I think it's just as funny that if Tkachuk were a Canuck, he would be praised for his physicality and probably be celebrated for those hits. Just like how we supported Burrows and Kesler and their antics.

I doubt it.  How many people liked when Cooke used to run around, do stupid crap, turtle, not deal with his actions and force his teammates to help him out? Same with Torres, we loved Torres, loved his hard nosed hockey, but when he would cross that line into dirty territory I remember lots of people not liking that around the media and fan base.  Burrows and Kesler were hard and nasty but I wouldn't say either of them really went out there to intentionally try and hurt anyone from what I can remember off the top of my head.

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, Russ said:

I doubt it.  How many people liked when Cooke used to run around, do stupid crap, turtle, not deal with his actions and force his teammates to help him out? Same with Torres, we loved Torres, loved his hard nosed hockey, but when he would cross that line into dirty territory I remember lots of people not liking that around the media and fan base.  Burrows and Kesler were hard and nasty but I wouldn't say either of them really went out there to intentionally try and hurt anyone from what I can remember off the top of my head.

I think this is kind of my point. If hits are thrown and no penalties were called, it's hard nosed hockey. People in the building are often cheering loud for these hits rather than cringing. It's the plays where they get suspended and lose them as players on the team that then become controversial. Cooke was a plug, but if he was putting up 70 points as well, there would be more people defending that he simply is doing what it takes to win and quote that "if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough" or something to that effect. Whatever the case, you would wish injury on Cooke or Torres from an opponent beating them to pulp, but people seem to condone Kassian's actions.