Chucky Cheese

[theo5789]

59 minutes ago, the grinder said:

yes sure look at the 3 hits MT  threw  at kassian   those are right out of the DPS no no videos  , predatory , charging , leaving his feet  ,targeting the head  ,  are way more dangerous  . Sure kassian action are deemed dangerous but after taking 3 dangerous hits with no calls , the NHL is leaving him no other choice but to do that . So now we get to targeting other players now  , so like I said before  if MT threw that hits at Mcdavid or RNH  there would of been a call , 5 and a game and at least a suspension  , and if kassian took out johnny hockey with a similar hit  . the same applies  and then your opening up a betuzzi incident 

Yes the league is at fault. It's entertainment and ratings. Torts wanted more hate in the league and here it is. People are angry and yet people are enjoying this, so why should the NHL change anything? Entertainment needs villains.

 

If we truly want dangerous plays out of the game, then why defend actions meant to injure another player like what Kassian did? All I'm saying is that it is contradictory to praise a dangerous act and complain about dangerous acts. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think both sides are buffoons and the league mishandled it as well, but yet the ratings for their next game will be through the roof supporting all of this, so I guess the league is getting their job done. Want to avoid a Bertuzzi incident, maybe the league should've suspended him long enough to miss the next game against the Flames. Seems like everyone is wrong here.

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, Squamfan said:

keith busy at a all you can eat sale at mcdonalds 

"Hey Matt, I'm at an all you can eat McDonalds. Me and Brady ate all the beef, but we saved you the chicken mcnuggets.. get it, cuz you're a chicken. ... Bawkbawkbawk buggawk!

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, zapperman said:

Disagree here. If the said retaliatory dangerous act serves to reduce future inciting dangerous acts, either through league action on penalizing the careless hits or through people like MT finally getting it and not want to get pummeled again, then I think it’s justified. 

I guess we will find out if this stops Tkachuk from doing his thing soon enough. How he plays now is how he is "effective" so I doubt this changes anything. He will continue to goad them and surely the league brass will be in attendance to "prevent" a major blow up.

[Darius]

Ex Ref Paul Stewart chimes in here.....basically stating what most of the poster in this thread think....(along with a bunch of ex players and current game commentators)

 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Paulbr-Stewart/Tkachuk-Kassian-and-the-Aggressor-Rule/196/103704

 

Rather long so ill put in spoiler

 

Spoiler

Rather than debating the Rule Book legality of whether the two checks that Calgary Flames forward Matthew Tkachuk delivered to Edmonton Oilers forward Zach Kassian before Kassian went after Tkachuk with a flurry of punches, I will discuss two related issues that I think are prime importance in this situation.

There's still plenty to unpack, which is why, for purposes of this blog, I will defer to the judgement of the on-ice officials that Tkachuk's hits were legal: neither charges nor checks that targeted the head. That is arguable, but I think there are other topics raised by this particular incident that stand out in my mind.

1. Not illegal doesn't always equal clean.

In the everyday world, just because something isn't done in an explicitly illegal way doesn't automatically make it right, ethical or fair. The same thing goes for hockey. A player's borderline actions may not, in an official's judgement and interpretation, merit a penalty under the Rule Book. That doesn't necessarily equate to the play being "clean" or a "good hockey play."

In this instance, a winger (Tkachuk) deliberately took himself out of position and, from above the goal line, approached to deliver a body check to an opponent (Kassian) who was engaged below the goal line with a defender on Tkachuk's team. It's not a smart hockey play to make. It's also not why body checks are designed to be a permitted part of the game. They exist to separate someone from the puck, not to separate him from his head when there's no reasonable chance of bracing to safely receive the hit. Technically legal or not, Kassian could have been injured.

This type of a hit from above the goal line to below would have drawn an immediate response in the era that I reffed in the NHL. It would have drawn an immediate response even back in the Jurassic era when I played in the WHA and NHL.

This isn't Tkachuk's first rodeo. He knew what he was doing, who he was hitting, and what the response was going to be. The very reason why Claude Lemieux was so widely hated and disrespected around the game was for actions like these, followed by turtling to avoid accountability.

2. The Aggressor Rule was misapplied.

Kassian's hearing with the NHL's Department of Player Safety (DOPS) is for an aggressor/roughing infraction. This, in my estimation, is a misapplication of the Aggressor Rule.

The Aggressor Rule was created to prevent situations in which a defenseless player or non-combatant gets attacked. An example would the incident some years ago between Philadelphia Flyers goaltender Ray Emery and Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. A line brawl broke out in the Washington zone. Holtby stayed in his net, minding his own business.

Nevertheless, Emery skated down the length of the ice and challenged Holtby to a fight. Holtby refused, but Emery said "OK, then protect yourself," and proceeded to beat down the opposing goalie.

THAT sort of situation is a specific reason why the aggressor penalty exists. It also exists to prevent a team's skill players from being jumped and pummeled by opposing players as a strategy for taking them off the ice. Basically, it's an "innocent bystander" protection from being jumped and forced to fight.

Tkachuk was no innocent bystander here. He wanted to have his cake (hitting Kassian in the manner that he did) and eat it, too (not obliging a fight challenge). That's Tkachuk's prerogative not to fight, no matter what he'd just done, but this was not an aggressor penalty situation.

The aggressor penalty was not designed to reward a provocateur who incites an opponent to turtle upon being challenged. I would suppose the DOPS argument would be that Kassian kept punching after it was clear that Tkachuk wasn't going to oblige him. I personally did not feel that the situation was territory into which it's wise to expand the definition of the aggressor penalty.

The problem with the misapplication of the aggressor penalty is that: 1) it spawns copycat situations, 2) It raises the risk of stick-related forms of response -- cross-checks to the head, spearing, etc.

Then again, I'm a dinosaur. What do I know?

 

[Timbermen]

20 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I guess we will find out if this stops Tkachuk from doing his thing soon enough. How he plays now is how he is "effective" so I doubt this changes anything. He will continue to goad them and surely the league brass will be in attendance to "prevent" a major blow up.

Theo? As in Theo Fluery? I'm not trying to oppress your freedom of speech but it seems like you're a Calgary fan. How can you be a Flames fan and a Canucks fan? Interesting if you are but even more interesting if you're a Flames fan that comes here to spread propaganda. This happened this week already with Sabresfan who was a Canucks fan but let his allegiance be known by calling Canucks fans homers and causing a FLAMEwar in the GDT against Buffalo. I've made one post in here, thats how much i care about the Flames and Oilers and you've argued with every poster in here.

 

Again, not trying to oppress your opinion, just interested in who your #1 team is, Canucks or Flames. If i was banned from these boards i guess i'd sign up to another teams boards. I definitely wouldn't go to a rival teams boards. No problem being a hockey fan of many teams but if you get emotional about your team on another boards, it's kind of weird.

[189lb enforcers?]

Another Dinosaur, like Don Cherry. 

What does Cherry think? 

 

[the grinder]

26 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Yes the league is at fault. It's entertainment and ratings. Torts wanted more hate in the league and here it is. People are angry and yet people are enjoying this, so why should the NHL change anything? Entertainment needs villains.

 

If we truly want dangerous plays out of the game, then why defend actions meant to injure another player like what Kassian did? All I'm saying is that it is contradictory to praise a dangerous act and complain about dangerous acts. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think both sides are buffoons and the league mishandled it as well, but yet the ratings for their next game will be through the roof supporting all of this, so I guess the league is getting their job done. Want to avoid a Bertuzzi incident, maybe the league should've suspended him long enough to miss the next game against the Flames. Seems like everyone is wrong here.

yes exactly  , im not defending kassian actions but I can see why he came up swinging  after the third hit , its not like kassian went after him on first 2 hits  , it was the third one  so 3 wrongs make it a fight lol ,  hey Im ok with a clean hit and the odd spontaneous fight , hockey is a fast physical game sure some hits are bad but they happen in a split second MT hits didn't  

Well the NHL not suspending Kassian longer  than 2 games  is just pouring gas on the fire already burning ,  George parros  , Pronger  all worked for the DPS  , that's like letting the prisoners run the prison  , 

[RowdyCanuck]

9 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

Theo? As in Theo Fluery? I'm not trying to oppress your freedom of speech but it seems like you're a Calgary fan. How can you be a Flames fan and a Canucks fan? Interesting if you are but even more interesting if you're a Flames fan that comes here to spread propaganda. This happened this week already with Sabresfan who was a Canucks fan but let his allegiance be known by calling Canucks fans homers and causing a FLAMEwar in the GDT against Buffalo. I've made one post in here, thats how much i care about the Flames and Oilers and you've argued with every poster in here.

 

Again, not trying to oppress your opinion, just interested in who your #1 team is, Canucks or Flames. If i was banned from these boards i guess i'd sign up to another teams boards. I definitely wouldn't go to a rival teams boards. No problem being a hockey fan of many teams but if you get emotional about your team on another boards, it's kind of weird.

I guess that means every Canuck fan has to hate every player not a Canuck?

you see how moronic that sounds right?

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I guess that means every Canuck fan has to hate every player not a Canuck?

you see how moronic that sounds right?

I hate the other teams BIG TIME.  I can appreciate other teams’ players, just so long as a poster here (on a Canuck’s board) is degrading one of our guys WHILE PROMOTING ANOTHER TEAM’S player.  (I’m not yelling.  I’m emphasizing the feeling I get when posters say bad stuff about our guys (especially our young players and prospects) while saying other teams’ similar aged guys are better.  

Thats when I begin to wonder if a fan is really one of our team or if they are fishing 

[the grinder]

2 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I guess that means every Canuck fan has to hate every player not a Canuck?

you see how moronic that sounds right?

lol and  theo isn't even arguing   against the canucks   , its called a discussion , Sabrefan  did whatever to himself  , sabrefan liked to dish it out but he didn't like it when it was dished back to him  and then he  starts crying about it in public ,  but whatever it was his choice to leave  

[Squamfan]

 

 

[theo5789]

31 minutes ago, the grinder said:

yes exactly  , im not defending kassian actions but I can see why he came up swinging  after the third hit , its not like kassian went after him on first 2 hits  , it was the third one  so 3 wrongs make it a fight lol ,  hey Im ok with a clean hit and the odd spontaneous fight , hockey is a fast physical game sure some hits are bad but they happen in a split second MT hits didn't  

Well the NHL not suspending Kassian longer  than 2 games  is just pouring gas on the fire already burning ,  George parros  , Pronger  all worked for the DPS  , that's like letting the prisoners run the prison  , 

I get it too. I understand the action. I just think calling out one player for being dangerous and then praising another for being dangerous is contradictory. That's all.

 

I don't disagree with Kassian reacting, I think he went overboard, which in turn ended up costing the team the game rather than sparking his own team (as some would also suggest would happen should retribution happen).

[theo5789]

42 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

Theo? As in Theo Fluery? I'm not trying to oppress your freedom of speech but it seems like you're a Calgary fan. How can you be a Flames fan and a Canucks fan? Interesting if you are but even more interesting if you're a Flames fan that comes here to spread propaganda. This happened this week already with Sabresfan who was a Canucks fan but let his allegiance be known by calling Canucks fans homers and causing a FLAMEwar in the GDT against Buffalo. I've made one post in here, thats how much i care about the Flames and Oilers and you've argued with every poster in here.

 

Again, not trying to oppress your opinion, just interested in who your #1 team is, Canucks or Flames. If i was banned from these boards i guess i'd sign up to another teams boards. I definitely wouldn't go to a rival teams boards. No problem being a hockey fan of many teams but if you get emotional about your team on another boards, it's kind of weird.

You can look up my post history for your answer. All I can say is there is more than one Theo in the world. The Canucks aren't even involved in all this...

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I get it too. I understand the action. I just think calling out one player for being dangerous and then praising another for being dangerous is contradictory. That's all.

 

I don't disagree with Kassian reacting, I think he went overboard, which in turn ended up costing the team the game rather than sparking his own team (as some would also suggest would happen should retribution happen).

If the Oilers want retribution they should make Monahan disappear.  Be tough with Sean and he hides.  

[RowdyCanuck]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I hate the other teams BIG TIME.  I can appreciate other teams’ players, just so long as a poster here (on a Canuck’s board) is degrading one of our guys WHILE PROMOTING ANOTHER TEAM’S player.  (I’m not yelling.  I’m emphasizing the feeling I get when posters say bad stuff about our guys (especially our young players and prospects) while saying other teams’ similar aged guys are better.  

Thats when I begin to wonder if a fan is really one of our team or if they are fishing 

Okay alf I've done what you've spoken of so does that make you question if I'm a fan of the Canucks ?

mosts debates or conversations I take which ever player plays nastier side unless it's the rat or Cooke. 

 

Im a fan of MT , I love watching him piss off other teams but don't get me wrong when it's Canucks vs flames I hope a Canuck lays him out every chance they get but I still enjoy watching MT play and I'm just happy he doesn't pull that crap on our players and when he tries it , I hope someone beats the hell out of him. 

 

[RowdyCanuck]

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Okay alf I've done what you've spoken of so does that make you question if I'm a fan of the Canucks ?

mosts debates or conversations I take which ever player plays nastier side unless it's the rat or Cooke. 

 

Im a fan of MT , I love watching him piss off other teams but don't get me wrong when it's Canucks vs flames I hope a Canuck lays him out every chance they get but I still enjoy watching MT play and I'm just happy he doesn't pull that crap on our players and when he tries it , I hope someone beats the hell out of him. 

 

You determine how to be s fan.  For some of us it’s impossible to cheer for another team.  We will cheer against teams, like the Leafs losing to the Bruins, but not really for a team not named Canucks.  

Maybe this is like what Torts said earlier. There is not enough hate in the game?  

I will never put other trams’ Young players and prospects ahead of ours.  That’s like saying we can’t best that team now, and won’t be able to i the future.  What’s the point of being s fan then, if you have no hope for your team?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

21 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I think it's just as funny that if Tkachuk were a Canuck, he would be praised for his physicality and probably be celebrated for those hits. Just like how we supported Burrows and Kesler and their antics.

Burrows and Kesler only hurt other people's feelings.  BIG difference.

 

Torres?  No question he was a head hunter.  Only a Canuck for a season.  He played for half a dozen other teams.

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

If the Oilers want retribution they should make Monahan disappear.  Be tough with Sean and he hides.  

Tkachuk didn't target McDavid or Draisaitl. He knows Kassian is a hot head and would react the way he did. It was targetted in that sense. He goaded Kassian and it paid off cause they got the win. They let Tkachuk get in their heads. You don't give him the attention, there's nothing he can do, but you also have to be responsible and know he's on the ice and looking for "opportunities".

[RowdyCanuck]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You determine how to be s fan.  For some of us it’s impossible to cheer for another team.  We will cheer against teams, like the Leafs losing to the Bruins, but not really for a team not named Canucks.  

Maybe this is like what Torts said earlier. There is not enough hate in the game?  

I will never put other trams’ Young players and prospects ahead of ours.  That’s like saying we can’t best that team now, and won’t be able to i the future.  What’s the point of being s fan then, if you have no hope for your team?

OH I hate the flames! My gf is a fan and I hate the oilers and leafs the list goes on but I like players like MT and Darcy tucker and mat sundin and  enjoyed watching them play and I don't like soft players even on the Canucks but my team will always be the Canucks. 

I love the game and have a soft spot only for the Canucks