Chucky Cheese

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, kilgore said:

But you are still looking at it from the "real" world.  The actions of both are related. I'll grant you that Kassian stepped over the line, even in the Hockey world, in punching so low. I didn't like that.  But I would contend that going over the line in an NHL hockey game is different than gong over the line in the real world.  And that previous circumstances and actions can, not excuse, but explain the response back. Even the most brutal example like McSorely swinging his stick at the head of Brashear.  Even when it was taken to an outside court, the most he received was a "conditional discharge".  Part of the reason I'm sure was that the judge knew there is a different set of risks when you sign up in the NHL. If that was some other schmuck that swung and hit another person in the head with a stick resulting in concussion and injury in OUR world, they'd have been given a much harsher sentence.  

It does no good to intellectualize wrongs and rights being equal between the two worlds.  Especially when Tkachuk gets up and skates away. 

This is where my point ends. I have not questioned any reasoning by Kassian for his actions. Do you think punching a guy while he is down as hard as you can is dangerous? If yes, then that's my point.

[Timbermen]

12 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

This is where my point ends. I have not questioned any reasoning by Kassian for his actions. Do you think punching a guy while he is down as hard as you can is dangerous? If yes, then that's my point.

You're right, Cosby's Theo fan. There has been 120 deaths in the UFC just in the last year. Actually he should have hit him harder, Tchuck can still formulate words. I was going to change the name of the thread to "Theo vehemently defends Mt for three days straight, totally not a flames fan, fan of Theo from the Cosby's" 

[spur1]

19 hours ago, HI5 said:

Did you forget the playoff series where Ferland “charged” Canucks players all series long?

That is what I was referring to. 

[189lb enforcers?]

Is MT good for the NHL? 

 

Think, then understand. 

[King Heffy]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:21 PM, HI5 said:

We hated Ferland as a Flame, but we love him now. 
 

We hate Tkachuk as a Flame, but would love him on our team. 
 

This kid just mind f***ed the whole Oilers roster. 

Hell no.  MT is one of the most gutless players in the history of the league.  It's an absolute disgrace that Calgary is letting this classless scumbag wear a letter.

 

MT is lucky he didn't get Bertuzzi'd like he deserved. 

[189lb enforcers?]

11 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Hell no.  MT is one of the most gutless players in the history of the league.  It's an absolute disgrace that Calgary is letting this classless scumbag wear a letter.

 

MT is lucky he didn't get Bertuzzi'd like he deserved. 

MT went out looking for Kassian; he drew him out like a master angler.

 

What exactly is gutless, really? Canucks fans should be experts on the subject of gutless NHLers, so definitely the right forum to ask the question - not that I actually want an answer as this is pure rhetoric. 

 

What should be understood is just how tough, or insane, you’d have to be to take Kassian to the point where he beats your ass so that you can get a power play, let alone distract an entire team and league, and smile about it; a job well-done. 

 

I’m not weighing in about the behaviour, more about the level of fearlessness needed to absolutely run over a heavy weight fighter several times, as a top line player. 

 

I’ve heard of him referred to a classless by the same people who think Burrows is ROH... Honor... material. To each their own. I get it. 

 

I’ve read on here that posters think MT is gutless or a coward. This is where I get accused of all sorts for disagreeing with such folly statements. I’m not sure what more is needed to prove yourself when you take on Zach &^@#ing Kassian, first by hammering the living F out of him on consecutive shifts, but then by declining his invitation and chance to defend his Honor or standing as a bully tough guy. 

 

I think it’s safe to assume MT is playing the long game, every game. The guy has owned other stars and impact players, as a rookie as well. I’d say that makes him a very effective team player; shows that he puts the team’s chances to win ahead of his own comfort.

 

Where people disagree with his antics, and I’m not defending them, haha though I do defend/speak to the mislabeling of any player, Burrows included, seems to be on MT’s actual mental AND physical capacity to answer for those antics on the ice.

 

Perhaps the reason he is so hard to play against/despised by his rivals is because he is absolutely 100% effective in his methods and his masterful control he has over each situation when he refuses to oblige a Kassian in a complimentary fight after running him over at will, repeatedly charging Kass without even a penalty. 

 

MT is in a class of his own as an agitator. He’s like an Ott or Verbeek, but 4-6” taller and 35lbs heavier. I’m pretty sure we all know he can and does fight, but chooses to instead taunt his opponents, which I’m no fan of, but he sure gets in their heads. 

 

MT, the guy nobody here wants on the Canucks, pro-rated back to that infamous draft miss, of course, is a first line power forward, can physically dominate games, psychologically abuse other stars as well as enforcers, dominate all star games, score the goal of the century AND be the focus of attention wherever he happens to be, and he just turned 22. ... 22. 

 

Definitely not Canucks material.

 

A guy like that? 

We’d rather have our Burrows version wearing a letter, amirite! 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

MT went out looking for Kassian; he drew him out like a master angler.

 

What exactly is gutless, really? Canucks fans should be experts on the subject of gutless NHLers, so definitely the right forum to ask the question - not that I actually want an answer as this is pure rhetoric. 

 

What should be understood is just how tough, or insane, you’d have to be to take Kassian to the point where he beats your ass so that you can get a power play, let alone distract an entire team and league, and smile about it; a job well-done. 

 

I’m not weighing in about the behaviour, more about the level of fearlessness needed to absolutely run over a heavy weight fighter several times, as a top line player. 

 

I’ve heard of him referred to a classless by the same people who think Burrows is ROH... Honor... material. To each their own. I get it. 

 

I’ve read on here that posters think MT is gutless or a coward. This is where I get accused of all sorts for disagreeing with such folly statements. I’m not sure what more is needed to prove yourself when you take on Zach &^@#ing Kassian, first by hammering the living F out of him on consecutive shifts, but then by declining his invitation and chance to defend his Honor or standing as a bully tough guy. 

 

I think it’s safe to assume MT is playing the long game, every game. The guy has owned other stars and impact players, as a rookie as well. I’d say that makes him a very effective team player; shows that he puts the team’s chances to win ahead of his own comfort.

 

Where people disagree with his antics, and I’m not defending them, haha though I do defend/speak to the mislabeling of any player, Burrows included, seems to be on MT’s actual mental AND physical capacity to answer for those antics on the ice.

 

Perhaps the reason he is so hard to play against/despised by his rivals is because he is absolutely 100% effective in his methods and his masterful control he has over each situation when he refuses to oblige a Kassian in a complimentary fight after running him over at will, repeatedly charging Kass without even a penalty. 

 

MT is in a class of his own as an agitator. He’s like an Ott or Verbeek, but 4-6” taller and 35lbs heavier. I’m pretty sure we all know he can and does fight, but chooses to instead taunt his opponents, which I’m no fan of, but he sure gets in their heads. 

 

MT, the guy nobody here wants on the Canucks, pro-rated back to that infamous draft miss, of course, is a first line power forward, can physically dominate games, psychologically abuse other stars as well as enforcers, dominate all star games, score the goal of the century AND be the focus of attention wherever he happens to be, and he just turned 22. ... 22. 

 

Definitely not Canucks material.

 

A guy like that? 

We’d rather have our Burrows version wearing a letter, amirite! 

 

 

technically Tkatpuke didn't 'take on' Kassian. He laid a borderline hit (which should have been called) and then turtled. Thats why so many NHL'ers have no respect for him. 

[189lb enforcers?]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

technically Tkatpuke didn't 'take on' Kassian. He laid a borderline hit (which should have been called) and then turtled. Thats why so many NHL'ers have no respect for him. 

Semantics. 

 

I am not a fan of the antics, I’ve tried to make that clear, but I am willing to concede the effectiveness, or mastery, of MT’s game-within-the-game, so to speak. 

 

I am a believer in the Code.

Does MT represent the Code? 

No. 

 

This isn't necessarily his problem though, is it.

It’s mine. 

My preferences do not define his effectiveness and shouldn’t cloud my ability to admit it either, which is my entire point. 

 

Is he gutless? 

Depends on how we define gutless.

 

Well, which Canuck runs Kassian, just to take a beating or hopes of a power play?

Which Canuck has the guts it takes to get beat up by Kassian? 

Which Canuck has the guts to repeated charge Kassian just hoping he loses his mind and comes swinging? 

 

Is he classless? 

I’m going to say ‘unsportsmanlike’ instead. 

He is a full measure of that, sure. 

 

He is perfect, iconic material for this forum’s standard for the Canucks’ ROH though.

 

The hypocrisy here is what I’m citing for reason to consider the basis for mislabeling MT as some kind of pussy. He’s anything but, IMO. This is not to say I support his antics or anything like that, just that he is winning the battles and that’s how you win wars, which the Flames are in with Edmonton. Take Jesus and Leon off the ice = win. 

 

As far as the turtle. 

So? 

Did he have to fight? Nope. He took Jesus off the ice instead, the big dumb pussy!

Pretty clever, no? 

Far more rewarding than obliging Kassian to satisfy his tough guy ego.

Totally owned the situation. 

 

I fully expect MT to one day, probably early next season, to answer for all of this. 

Kassian wont be fooled again in this race. 

If one of the two teams fall out of contention this season, I expect a Bertuzzi-light incident from either player. 

 

I’d imagine, for the sake of the gutless, pussy-label comments, posters will at least agree that MT isn’t necessarily turtle game because he’s some kind of sissy wallflower. I’d question the merit of any statement on here that questions the physical and mental capacity of MT to stick up for himself, as if he’s some kind of Sedin or Cooke; a guy who can’t or won’t fight or stick up for himself.

 

We know he is Kesler-level fighter. It’s not like he isn’t able to defend his actions and that’s what drives his opponents insane. Kassian was schooled, albeit “charged” by MT, IMO. 

 

Winner - MT. 

Round 2 - TBD.

Round 22 - TBD.

 

I’m betting on MT to win the battles.

I’ll let the NHL determine who wins the war/cup. 

 

Class doesn’t win wars. Ask the Sedins. 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Semantics. 

 

I am not a fan of the antics, I’ve tried to make that clear, but I am willing to concede the effectiveness, or mastery, of MT’s game-within-the-game, so to speak. 

 

I am a believer in the Code.

Does MT represent the Code? 

No. 

 

This isn't necessarily his problem though, is it.

It’s mine. 

My preferences do not define his effectiveness and shouldn’t cloud my ability to admit it either, which is my entire point. 

 

Is he gutless? 

Depends on how we define gutless.

 

Well, which Canuck runs Kassian, just to take a beating or hopes of a power play?

Which Canuck has the guts it takes to get beat up by Kassian? 

Which Canuck has the guts to repeated charge Kassian just hoping he loses his mind and comes swinging? 

 

Is he classless? 

I’m going to say ‘unsportsmanlike’ instead. 

He is a full measure of that, sure. 

 

He is perfect, iconic material for this forum’s standard for the Canucks’ ROH though.

 

The hypocrisy here is what I’m citing for reason to consider the basis for mislabeling MT as some kind of pussy. He’s anything but, IMO. This is not to say I support his antics or anything like that, just that he is winning the battles and that’s how you win wars, which the Flames are in with Edmonton. Take Jesus and Leon off the ice = win. 

 

As far as the turtle. 

So? 

Did he have to fight? Nope. He took Jesus off the ice instead, the big dumb pussy!

Pretty clever, no? 

Far more rewarding than obliging Kassian to satisfy his tough guy ego.

Totally owned the situation. 

 

I fully expect MT to one day, probably early next season, to answer for all of this. 

Kassian wont be fooled again in this race. 

If one of the two teams fall out of contention this season, I expect a Bertuzzi-light incident from either player. 

 

I’d imagine, for the sake of the gutless, pussy-label comments, posters will at least agree that MT isn’t necessarily turtle game because he’s some kind of sissy wallflower. I’d question the merit of any statement on here that questions the physical and mental capacity of MT to stick up for himself, as if he’s some kind of Sedin or Cooke; a guy who can’t or won’t fight or stick up for himself.

 

We know he is Kesler-level fighter. It’s not like he isn’t able to defend his actions and that’s what drives his opponents insane. Kassian was schooled, albeit “charged” by MT, IMO. 

 

Winner - MT. 

Round 2 - TBD.

Round 22 - TBD.

 

I’m betting on MT to win the battles.

I’ll let the NHL determine who wins the war/cup. 

 

Class doesn’t win wars. Ask the Sedins. 

 

 

 

 

I agree it was effective. So's a head shot. MT chose to go low to be effective, if that works for you as a fan thats fine, but I'm with the former players that chose to comment on this one. 

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree it was effective. So's a head shot. MT chose to go low to be effective, if that works for you as a fan thats fine, but I'm with the former players that chose to comment on this one. 

Then we agree about the play. I have no position on character of the play/player in that sequence other than what I’ve described as unsportsmanlike behaviour, while simultaneously noting that he was indeed effective and that such tactics will soon be measurable by all fans, especially the Albortion ones with skin in the game, so to speak. Also, what a shot-in-the-arm for ratings. An argument is easily made that these antics and the behaviour of both combatants has been good for the NHL, if only for ratings. 

 

 I’ll remind you that it is possible to take offence with MT’s antics and blatant charging non-calls, while also acknowledging, at the risk of being one of a handful of bad-fans to do so in here, that (a) MT completely owned the Oilers, possibly maintaining that distraction and tactic through a neck-and-neck, successful playoff rival-race and (b) acknowledging that he took advantage of a situation and ego of a player to give his team a chance to win that game, because he was one of a very few/dumb/brave players who could absorb being pummelled by Kassian; the exact opposite of “gutless”, depending on your optics/definition. 

 

I can both appreciate the mastery of MT’s game AND not be a fan of it, even if I admit his effectiveness AND wish we’d drafted the guy. 

 

What amuses me is the worship, to the point of rule-bending Threads here, for Burrows, yet, MT is held up as some kind of world record holder for Burrows-esqe behaviour.

 

I use the apt word amusement here because I realize it’s a fan forum and I expect fanatics and homerism, but until MT bites, pulls hair, Ref Gates or any other actual non-hockey plays his way into Burr’s league of classless/gutless behaviour, he’s Canucks ROH material... and it’s funny because it’s true... well, minus a few seasons/games played criteria set by fans. Of course, that was completely facetious, unfounded and a coffee-fuelled bit of fun for our posting pleasure, Jimmy. 

 

However, the “go low” comment, straw man as may be in relation to my ill-advised comments defending those made stating MT being too gutless or somehow being too incapable of defending himself, isn’t a reverence for go-low play here, especially not what testimonial you’ve just pinned your creed to, as it suggests I am misaligned with the Code/players. 

 

Go-low means low-bridge to me or it can me a ball punch or maybe a low tactic like making fun of a player’s addiction, etc. That would be low. Taunting Kassian, that’s fair game. Bruising his ego, refusing to fight, that’s not low, it’s wiley and almost cruel, but sure, against the Code. As long as when the final bell rigs for MT to answer for his antics, he settles up with Kassian, all will be right with the Gods, including us. Until then, MT owns Kassian, and they both know it.

 

I love this stuff. 

The stage is set for a rivalry we almost never see anymore. 

MT might be demolished in that tilt, but hopefully he shows up, stands up and stays up like the man I hope him to be. The Gods demand it. 

 

The issue I am tackling in the tread is the double standard for ROH merit, with a sprinkle of “glad we didn’t draft/that he’s not a Canuck” flavour-posts for a guy that is pretty much a Kesler clone, kinda sorta, and how Kesler is also another low-standard ROH candidate, IMO. 

 

The MT vs the Oilers story will be as long as MT’s career. 

We are only in Chapter One of it, so I hope those reading understand that whatever they may feel towards MT, it’s only going to grow as the story evolves. In the end, I doubt there will be much room to question the guts of MT. He’s already shown a capacity to use himself as a fist magnet so his team has an opportunity to win.

 

Knowing that he will perpetually have to get past the Oilers in the playoffs, probably by keeping Jesus and Leon sat on their short handed bench, I suspect we will have way enough future material to judge whether or not his juice was worth the squeeze. It will be entertaining, what else do we want? 

 

And because I am a huge Kassian fan, I hope he can park his ego and focus on becoming as effective by running the Flames and drawing the same kind of penalties as MT did. If the Oilers go on the PP because Kassian can learn from the guy who just schooled him, how awesome will this saga become? I want retribution as much as I want Kass to show he is capable of playing smart hockey, too. That’s how you win the war. Otherwise, MT will run with this. 

 

Be smart Kass. 

MT, when it’s time, don’t pull a Cooke on Kass.

Canuck fans, lol, don’t be jelly of either player, while praising Burrows. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Then we agree about the play. I have no position on character of the play/player in that sequence other than what I’ve described as unsportsmanlike behaviour, while simultaneously noting that he was indeed effective and that such tactics will soon be measurable by all fans, especially the Albortion ones with skin in the game, so to speak. Also, what a shot-in-the-arm for ratings. An argument is easily made that these antics and the behaviour of both combatants has been good for the NHL, if only for ratings. 

 

 I’ll remind you that it is possible to take offence with MT’s antics and blatant charging non-calls, while also acknowledging, at the risk of being one of a handful of bad-fans to do so in here, that (a) MT completely owned the Oilers, possibly maintaining that distraction and tactic through a neck-and-neck, successful playoff rival-race and (b) acknowledging that he took advantage of a situation and ego of a player to give his team a chance to win that game, because he was one of a very few/dumb/brave players who could absorb being pummelled by Kassian; the exact opposite of “gutless”, depending on your optics/definition. 

 

I can both appreciate the mastery of MT’s game AND not be a fan of it, even if I admit his effectiveness AND wish we’d drafted the guy. 

 

What amuses me is the worship, to the point of rule-bending Threads here, for Burrows, yet, MT is held up as some kind of world record holder for Burrows-esqe behaviour.

 

I use the apt word amusement here because I realize it’s a fan forum and I expect fanatics and homerism, but until MT bites, pulls hair, Ref Gates or any other actual non-hockey plays his way into Burr’s league of classless/gutless behaviour, he’s Canucks ROH material... and it’s funny because it’s true... well, minus a few seasons/games played criteria set by fans. Of course, that was completely facetious, unfounded and a coffee-fuelled bit of fun for our posting pleasure, Jimmy. 

 

However, the “go low” comment, straw man as may be in relation to my ill-advised comments defending those made stating MT being too gutless or somehow being too incapable of defending himself, isn’t a reverence for go-low play here, especially not what testimonial you’ve just pinned your creed to, as it suggests I am misaligned with the Code/players. 

 

Go-low means low-bridge to me or it can me a ball punch or maybe a low tactic like making fun of a player’s addiction, etc. That would be low. Taunting Kassian, that’s fair game. Bruising his ego, refusing to fight, that’s not low, it’s wiley and almost cruel, but sure, against the Code. As long as when the final bell rigs for MT to answer for his antics, he settles up with Kassian, all will be right with the Gods, including us. Until then, MT owns Kassian, and they both know it.

 

I love this stuff. 

The stage is set for a rivalry we almost never see anymore. 

MT might be demolished in that tilt, but hopefully he shows up, stands up and stays up like the man I hope him to be. The Gods demand it. 

 

The issue I am tackling in the tread is the double standard for ROH merit, with a sprinkle of “glad we didn’t draft/that he’s not a Canuck” flavour-posts for a guy that is pretty much a Kesler clone, kinda sorta, and how Kesler is also another low-standard ROH candidate, IMO. 

 

The MT vs the Oilers story will be as long as MT’s career. 

We are only in Chapter One of it, so I hope those reading understand that whatever they may feel towards MT, it’s only going to grow as the story evolves. In the end, I doubt there will be much room to question the guts of MT. He’s already shown a capacity to use himself as a fist magnet so his team has an opportunity to win.

 

Knowing that he will perpetually have to get past the Oilers in the playoffs, probably by keeping Jesus and Leon sat on their short handed bench, I suspect we will have way enough future material to judge whether or not his juice was worth the squeeze. It will be entertaining, what else do we want? 

 

And because I am a huge Kassian fan, I hope he can park his ego and focus on becoming as effective by running the Flames and drawing the same kind of penalties as MT did. If the Oilers go on the PP because Kassian can learn from the guy who just schooled him, how awesome will this saga become? I want retribution as much as I want Kass to show he is capable of playing smart hockey, too. That’s how you win the war. Otherwise, MT will run with this. 

 

Be smart Kass. 

MT, when it’s time, don’t pull a Cooke on Kass.

Canuck fans, lol, don’t be jelly of either player, while praising Burrows. 

you make some good points 189. There's no doubt MT is living rent free in the heads of Kassian and the Oilers. It was/is very effective and could give Calgary an edge in the playoffs. Or it could backfire with the refs, its risky. Same with Burr sometimes, it was easy for the refs to call "14" when they needed game management. 

 

One aspect of Burr I really appreciated was his approach to on ice justice. If one of our guys got a cheap shot Burr could put in a stealth spear like few others. But is that on the same level as instigating and turtling? 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:36 PM, Timbermen said:

Tchuck can still formulate words.

Are you talking before or after the beatdown.  Never struck me as the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Timbermen]

[Timbermen]

You have to give him credit for fighting Kassian, respect him 1,000 times more than Brad Marchand now.