Sign in to follow this  
BigTramFan

[Proposal] TOR needs defense, VAN could use a 1st round pick

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats why one of Benn or Stech would be fine. If its Stecher, Benn can play the right side, or Fantenberg actually. If its Benn being moved, we've got Fantenberg, Sautner, Breisbois and maybe even Juolev by the end of the year. 

 

Benning was in Utica last week so I'm sure he was assessing the readiness of the AHL group. 

 

Again, not that I want to do Toronto any favors, but would be okay with moving Stecher and / or Benn if any of the following are expected to happen:

 

#1. Rathbone is ready to sign at the end of this College season and begin his tour of the Utica blueline and take a big step towards what will hopefully be a very long and successful NHL career.

#2. That we will be signing Tryamkin when his season completes, or at least during summer.

#3. That Benning thinks that Rafferty is ready to audition for Stechers spot in Vancouver, and

#4. That Benning thinks that Juolevi is not too far behind Rafferty on being ready to debut in Vancouver.

 

We are in compete mode, and we don't want to dilute out depth too much, but its also obvious that we are going to need to move some guys out to make room. I like Benn's size, but not sure that he's being as effective here as we had hoped. But, in a long playoff run, you need enough depth to survive it. We know that Chatfield, Sautner, and Brisebois are capable of filling in for Vancouver, but not sure that we are fully confident in their ability to play more than 9 - 12 minutes per game yet. Further, we know that Jett Woo will be heading to Utica at the end of this season, and I wonder if they might be thinking of bringing Utunen over as well when his season completes. 

 

As long as there is a solution to overall depth for the rest of this season and next, and as long as it involves pillaging Toronto's overall depth, I can learn to live with it! ;)

 

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Again, not that I want to do Toronto any favors, but would be okay with moving Stecher and / or Benn if any of the following are expected to happen:

 

#1. Rathbone is ready to sign at the end of this College season and begin his tour of the Utica blueline and take a big step towards what will hopefully be a very long and successful NHL career.

#2. That we will be signing Tryamkin when his season completes, or at least during summer.

#3. That Benning thinks that Rafferty is ready to audition for Stechers spot in Vancouver, and

#4. That Benning thinks that Juolevi is not too far behind Rafferty on being ready to debut in Vancouver.

 

We are in compete mode, and we don't want to dilute out depth too much, but its also obvious that we are going to need to move some guys out to make room. I like Benn's size, but not sure that he's being as effective here as we had hoped. But, in a long playoff run, you need enough depth to survive it. We know that Chatfield, Sautner, and Brisebois are capable of filling in for Vancouver, but not sure that we are fully confident in their ability to play more than 9 - 12 minutes per game yet. Further, we know that Jett Woo will be heading to Utica at the end of this season, and I wonder if they might be thinking of bringing Utunen over as well when his season completes. 

 

As long as there is a solution to overall depth for the rest of this season and next, and as long as it involves pillaging Toronto's overall depth, I can learn to live with it! ;)

 

all of that seems very much in the realm of the possible. 

 

I don't know what other kind of help might be out there for the Leaves, and trading with us is a nice option since it won't come back to bite them in their division. 

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Tryamkin is a lock to return, then the Canucks will need to make room for him. 

Unfortunately, if he does return, it will be around the TDL.... the market will be very different then.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

If Tryamkin is a lock to return, then the Canucks will need to make room for him. 

Unfortunately, if he does return, it will be around the TDL.... the market will be very different then.  

Who goes to Utica?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Alflives said:

Who goes to Utica?

And who on Utica will need to be sent down to Kalamazoo?

 

Way too many moving parts when you take on additional contracts/players.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

They wouldn't but the poster suggested no trade would get a first out of Toronto except Hughes. That's totally incorrect.

I think I needed an irony warning on that one, after all there are some strange proposals on CDC.

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Who goes to Utica?

Fantenburg. I think the real question is where does the cap space come from to cover Tryamkin?

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why help toronto

and harm nucks?

 

why is this obsession with recovering a 1st round pick

so overwhelming on this site

we got miller for our 1st rounder .. that is real value... let's move on

 

if toronto is helped by this sort of trade

how low in the 1st round will the returning 1st round pick in fact be

the logic of this sort of trade works against itself

 

nucks possibly tank out of the playoffs

to gain a falrly low 1st round pick in return

 

at some point we will lose the interest of our top tier players

who are not into the tanking game but want to be winners

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Who goes to Utica?

No one I hope, make a trade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Why is making the playoffs so important? To loose in the first round? I think its more important to have a 1st round pick and whatever we can do to get short of loosing any core players, I support

So your plan is to be a bottom feeder for years until magically becoming dominant instantly when the time is right with no growing pains? That's an unrealistic pipe dream. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:

No one I hope, make a trade

We are in the thick of a race for first in the division.  We have quite a good team too.  I think we need our depth on D.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Why is making the playoffs so important? To loose in the first round? I think its more important to have a 1st round pick and whatever we can do to get short of loosing any core players, I support

Ask the captain, about the 2015 post-season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Why is making the playoffs so important? To loose in the first round? I think its more important to have a 1st round pick and whatever we can do to get short of loosing any core players, I support

NHL playoff experience for our young stars is more valuable than a 1st round pick. It's a completely different game than in regular season, much like pre-season is to mid-season. The condition of which we traded our 1st to Tampa was a safety net, in case we don't make the playoffs. Who knows, maybe Benning moves a future 1st+ to recoup the loss of this years 1st, should we get in.

 

And no one likes to lose, it sucks.

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Leafs already traded a 1st just to move Marleau's contract.  I don't see them being too keen on moving another one even if the loss of Morgan Rielly is a huge blow to them.

 

IMHO, their current problems go beyond Rielly.  It looks like communication between the forwards, D and goalies is just not at the level that's needed to compliment one another well.  They were able to score their way out of trouble for awhile but I think execution of systems may be the bigger issue than personnel.  I think they'll be more than happy to see how guys like Sandin and Liljegren handle the NHL game before they even consider moving a 1st.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm personally open to moving Tanev for the right return, playoffs be damned, it better be for a hell of a lot better return than Ceci and a late 1st (on top of losing Stecher!).

 

And that said, given we're in a playoff hunt, moving Tanev is HIGHLY unlikely. He likely re-signs at a home town discount or walks in July.

 

Stecher on the other hand I could see. We likely can't afford what he'll cost to re-sign next year so we may as well get assets for him this TDL and bump any of Tryamkin, Rafferty, Benn, Brisebois, Sautner, Juolevi etc in their respective places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Thanks for your comments. Very insightful.

 

In case you are wondering, I'm not obsessed with getting the 1st round pick back from the Miller deal. I am just spit balling ideas around getting some value for expiring assets.

 

This proposal is all about the choice between being as strong a team as possible now (in order to make the first round of the 2020 playoffs) vs. getting some value for expiring assets.

 

I am a bit 50/50 on which is the bigger priority for the Canucks. I think both are valuable. 

 

In order to address some of your comments:

 

15 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I personally don't like Tanev, but to get rid of 2/3 of our RHD is baffling at best.

"Baffling at best"? Haha no I don't think is baffling, it's simply a choice. The "best" outcome would be that the 1st round pick may even be a lottery pick. And please note we would be getting Ceci back to cover for the loss of Stecher (similar level players and both RHD), so we are not exactly losing 2/3 of our RHD. Also Benn and Fantenberg (and reportedly Hughes) are quite comfortable playing RHD.

 

18 hours ago, shiznak said:

We’re 5th in the league in shots against, above Toronto. 
 

Can’t expect our goalies to keep us in every single game.

I think this is more to do with the style of play that Green has the Canucks playing than our D being as bad as TOR's D.

 

9 hours ago, coastal.view said:

why help toronto

and harm nucks?

Each side of a trade must believe that they are benefitting, otherwise the trade doesn't happen. You give up something (harms you) to get something (helps you). So by definition this trade should help TOR and VAN in some way, otherwise they wouldn't do it. It is a matter of deciding what stage each party is at, and what they want help with. I get that the Canucks are pushing for the playoffs and losing Tanev would harm this aim, but the 1st round pick also helps us. Do you believe the value is off? Or is it just the timing?

 

9 hours ago, coastal.view said:

why is this obsession with recovering a 1st round pick

so overwhelming on this site

we got miller for our 1st rounder .. that is real value... let's move on

 See my comments above. I'm not obsessed. Best that you let that thought that we are all "obsessed with getting 1st round picks" go if you are going to browse the armchair GM section because you will see it pop up quite often. But it is just you that has the wrong idea about who is obsessed.

 

9 hours ago, coastal.view said:

if toronto is helped by this sort of trade

how low in the 1st round will the returning 1st round pick in fact be

the logic of this sort of trade works against itself

Since TOR are in such a tight cap crunch they are likely at their strongest this season. They are considered cup contenders by some and this trade would help them THIS SEASON. They are unlikely to be drafting 1-10 in 2020 so their 2020 1st is probably going to CAR. Next season TOR are going to have to move some contracts and some higher end pieces. It is most likely that the pick in this proposal to VAN would end up being the 2021 1st. This may well be the better pick since the Leafs could end up tanking in 2020/21 while trying to fix their cap issues. The logic is a bit different to what you suggest - this proposed trade helps TOR in 2019/20 and we likely get a pick based on their 2020/21 performance.

 

 

More thoughts... please don't freak out...

 

Another proposal was put up yesterday around Martinez. Something like Benn + Brisebois + 3rd for Martinez (50% retained).

I liked that proposal and I think it could dovetail nicely into this proposal, as long as no one pulls out the old "Nintendo trade" quote to suggest that two trades can't happen...

 

But switching Benn for Martinez brings in some higher caliber defense that would help to offset the temporary loss of Tanev for this season:

 

Edler Myers

Martinez Hughes

Fantenberg Ceci

 

Allowing the Nucks to bring Tanev and Tryamkin in next season:

 

Edler Myers

Hughes Tanev

Martinez Tryamkin

(Fantenberg)  

 

A good mix of defensive players, size, grit and of course Hughes doing what he does best!

Edited by BigTramFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Why is making the playoffs so important? To loose in the first round? I think its more important to have a 1st round pick and whatever we can do to get short of loosing any core players, I support

This is the next step in the development. This isn't some aging team. We didn't go out to get Miller and Myers for nothing. It's go time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have the potential to be first in the division so not just make the playoffs, but have a win-able first round and make a bit of a push. We should be in no position to sell or down-grade the quality of our players now. I don't think this Canucks team is going to be a seller for a long time.

 

If anything, make a smart hockey trade like Tanev + Gaudette for Ceci + Nylander....

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

We have the potential to be first in the division so not just make the playoffs, but have a win-able first round and make a bit of a push. We should be in no position to sell or down-grade the quality of our players now. I don't think this Canucks team is going to be a seller for a long time.

 

If anything, make a smart hockey trade like Tanev + Gaudette for Ceci + Nylander....

Wee Willie then becomes our highest paid player.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2020 at 2:34 AM, -AJ- said:

IMO, trading Tanev and only getting as much as Ceci in return means kissing our playoff hopes goodbye. We're not in a position to be giving up good roster players for draft picks--we're not a trash team anymore and should be keeping these guys in most scenarios to push for the playoffs.

Tanev's situation is problematic, much like the Guddy conundrum.

Unlike the Guddy situation, however, we are now in the thick of a playoff battle and can ill afford to lose Tanev's experience.

I think it more advantageous to keep Tanev and let him go to free agency.

Brogan Rafferty has really developed nicely and should make a huge push for a spot next season.

If we're going to make blueline changes, I'd rather it be through promotion than from dealing.

This route keeps our important pieces in Vancouver uniforms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.