[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Winnipeg Jets | Jan. 14, 2020

[DeNiro]

Can anyone confirm Green will now be going to the All-Star game?

[Dr. Crossbar]

20 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Can anyone confirm Green will now be going to the All-Star game?

I can confirm if that happens, Green will suddenly be a lot of people's best friend.

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I can confirm if that happens, Green will suddenly be a lot of people's best friend.

Lol yep.

 

I was on the fire Green bandwagon for a bit but I’m off it now. I’ll admit I was wrong.

 

Something still has to be done about our defensive system though. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Lol yep.

 

I was on the fire Green bandwagon for a bit but I’m off it now. I’ll admit I was wrong.

 

Something still has to be done about our defensive system though. 

Yeah, I get the frustration with him but he does deserve time to find his groove. You can see his demeanor changing and getting more confident as a coach. I do think he needs an All-Star type vote of confidence to get people off his back for a while. When AV won coach of the year early, it bought him growth time through the bad times.

 

Absolutely don't like our D system. Our wide Zone D leaves us way too vulnerable and scrambly. We get caught between zone and man-to-man. 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

59 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Can anyone confirm Green will now be going to the All-Star game?

Green's reaction when he gets the nod to coach at the All Star game.

 

[Dumb Nuck]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:42 PM, Knucklehd said:

I actually don't disagree with Greener tonight.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Dumb Nuck]

13 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So there is a common theme here which has existed for a long time. The "gentlemanly" type play has plagued this team through the Nazzy and Sedin years. 

Before the complaints start about "speed and skill" will win us games I have to remind people that we were beaten in the past by being "bullied" where we had no answer for it. Many examples I am sure many of you will remember. We have been manhandled in a game where "aggression" IS a part of the game even if some try to deny it, including Buttman. Part of a teams skillset should be able to initiate and respond to "aggression". If not, your team is lacking and it will give you a disadvantage. 

I have seen on numerous occasions where we have "aggressive" players on our team start off being aggressive and then stop, for some reason. 

Gudbranson- hit on Hamonic and then nothing after that.

Bo-used to hit, got into A fight, and then nothing after that

Jake- Hit on McDavid and has tapered to almost no hitting in his game.

Motte- used to hit everything that moved, now? He has mellowed this part of his game.

Beagle/Roussel- Both scrummed it up in front of the net, not happening now.

Myers- hitting and roughing up players along the boards, not so much now.

These are just examples off the top of my head I am sure others can think of other examples. 

Some say we had the right coach but wrong players before and some say we have the wrong coach but the right players this time. Gotta love Petey's enthusiasm for a light, young player, he is only going to get better.

IMO, this young team needs to learn how to implement this type of play into their repertoire. This will be even more important in the playoffs. 

Is it the Coach? Is it the players? The way things have gone, I am leaning towards the Coach and Management but maybe its the leadership in the room I don't know, but either way, I hope they figure it out sooner rather then later.

I’ve been saying this since AV, we are not nor were built to survive what it takes to win a cup, AV built a soft team and that has perpetuated since and that’s why Green is the wrong coach for us, he’s just AV jr.

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

We have the emergence of Markstrom. 

Look at the point totals of Bo Brock Pete and the addition of Miller and how well he's Played. 

Then we've added Myers and Hughes.

Who are the two D that we are now without that we've all complained about that were so terrible? 

I'd say we are underachieving.  

 

Oh and Pearson has been awesome as well.  And not to shabby a supporting cast with guys like motte rooster and beagle. 

Virtanen is even better. 

And why is Pearson doing awesome?  Green - go and see what he had to say about him.   I'm not sure if we'd be doing much better with a different coach - sure it's possible- but it's also possible we won't and start underachieving.   This isn't a top team (yet), it will take time.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:I’ve been saying this since AV, we are not nor were built to survive what it takes to win a cup, AV built a soft team and that has perpetuated since and that’s why Green is the wrong coach for us, he’s just AV jr.

How did AV built a soft team?  Was he in charge of Burke and Nonis's actions before coming here? The only similarity was his reliance on the PP to carry things - as in retaliation was kept to a minimum (and during the Boston series we had a 2-1 PP advantage not that it mattered, but it could have which was the point).   Maybe Green is doing this too - we do draw more PP then any team in the league, and do have a top five unit (for now he needs to play the second unit more IMO because they shoot the puck rather then get too cute with it) and no way would we be as high in the standings without that strategy.   Maybe we should fire Green and get either NSH or Vegas underachieving more "experienced" coaches here - BUT why?  How much better should this team really be doing?  Top in the division?  The conference?  Get real.  We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were three years ago...

[EdgarM]

8 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

I’ve been saying this since AV, we are not nor were built to survive what it takes to win a cup, AV built a soft team and that has perpetuated since and that’s why Green is the wrong coach for us, he’s just AV jr.

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

How did AV built a soft team?  Was he in charge of Burke and Nonis's actions before coming here? The only similarity was his reliance on the PP to carry things - as in retaliation was kept to a minimum (and during the Boston series we had a 2-1 PP advantage not that it mattered, but it could have which was the point).   Maybe Green is doing this too - we do draw more PP then any team in the league, and do have a top five unit (for now he needs to play the second unit more IMO because they shoot the puck rather then get too cute with it) and no way would we be as high in the standings without that strategy.   Maybe we should fire Green and get either NSH or Vegas underachieving more "experienced" coaches here - BUT why?  How much better should this team really be doing?  Top in the division?  The conference?  Get real.  We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were three years ago...

I think you actually supported what Dumb Nuck was saying. AV refused to retaliate to get more PP yet they went something like 3-35 in the Boston series. Boston was able to nullify the guys who were "too cute" with the puck and were able to overcome that strategy. It never worked then so why would we copy that strategy again?

You said yourself that the second PP unit, is being more successful. This type of Unit is what is going to be more successful in the playoffs as well.

Hard work, shoot on net and go for the rebound type of attack. 

Who cares what kind of success happens during the regular season as long as we make it to the playoffs. Does anybody care that we win another Presidents Cup? 

I think the big argument regarding Coaching is that there is concern that TG may not be able to get this core to the point that they can push themselves to overcoming adversity to win a championship. They seem content to losing and "we will get them next time" type of attitude. Any type of adversity and the excuses come out, "there a good team over there", "we weren't ready", "we have key injuries right now" , "there a big,heavy team" etc. etc. etc. 

That's OK for a bunch of youngsters(AHL?) but I think when you are in the NHL there is a little more expectations. 

There are many "talented" teams(Tampa,Toronto) in the REGULAR SEASON but do they have the "intangibles" to be successful in the post season?

I think its the GM's job to find these players with these characteristics and the Coaches job is to bring the best out of these players. 

Can Travis take these guys to the next level? Can you be successful in the playoffs if you are refusing to body check? Can you build a TEAM when you are not sticking up for each other? 

Why are we better then we were 3 years ago? Petey, Hughes, Miller and the improved play of Marky are probably why. 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

How so? Gallant has no real star players.....Green has had Brock and petey and Hughes to help pad his stats....

 

Stone is a good player but his no star and I could say that about that whole roster other then flury....

 

 

Stone has been a star in this league for quite some time, and most of us on this site wanted him here if we could.  Patches is top ten in goal scoring in this league since he started playing - a ton of other players get more recognition - and he deserves to be in this years all-star game.   MAF is a future HHOFERS goalie, JM resume pales in comparison.   And they have a glut of middle six forwards right down the lines.   

 

We have a rookie and a sophomore that so far appear to be stars BUT still have to do it.  Vegas was considered the best team in our division to start the year - it's definitely the best version of a team that went to the finals a couple years ago too.  

 

Gallant is also a players coach (like Green), and has a better resume - but has also failed to get more or even just remain the same with a much improved roster.  Patches line is the second  best in our division this year so far.  They don't get the recognition (Stones 200 foot solid game and Patches quietly out scoring a bevy of stars that do get recognized) but if we can call EP, QH and BB stars, then Vegas can definitely call Stone and Patches stars too.  

 

If we don't make the playoffs this year I could see us making a change or if we get mired in a losing streek.    Otherwise why rock the boat?  We are the best team in the league standings wise the past 12 games.   9-3.  Also should have won the last game but didn't (we outplayed WNP).  Why is it whenever we lose the fire Green noise amps up, and when we win he has nothing to do about it?  If you haven't noticed we are dont better then expected - maybe we could do even better for sure - and maybe TG is getting better too the same way JB has as a manager.

 

Speaking of which - as manager you don't fire staff for doing their job - which TG has undoubtedly done.   You find better players for him to work with - and only fire someone if they aren't producing to acceptable expectations.   

 

I wouldnt mind Gallant either - but still believe TG is getting a good effort from his players most nights - and the players themselves like him so there is no dressing room issues (for now at least).    Maybe the two teams should switch ha ha.  Who's next to hire one of these recycled coaches?   Gallant won't be out of work long, and neither would Green if he's fired based on what he's managed so far. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by IBatch

[RowdyCanuck]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Stone has been a star in this league for quite some time, and most of us on this site wanted him here if we could.  Patches is top ten in goal scoring in this league since he started playing - a ton of other players get more recognition - and he deserves to be in this years all-star game.   MAF is a future HHOFERS goalie, JM resume pales in comparison.   And they have a glut of middle six forwards right down the lines.   

 

We have a rookie and a sophomore that so far appear to be stars BUT still have to do it.  Vegas was considered the best team in our division to start the year - it's definitely the best version of a team that went to the finals a couple years ago too.  

 

Gallant is also a players coach (like Green), and has a better resume - but has also failed to get more or even just remain the same with a much improved roster.  Patches line is the second  best in our division this year so far.  They don't get the recognition (Stones 200 foot solid game and Patches quietly out scoring a bevy of stars that do get recognized) but if we can call EP, QH and BB stars, then Vegas can definitely call Stone and Patches stars too.  

 

If we don't make the playoffs this year I could see us making a change or if we get mired in a losing streek.    Otherwise why rock the boat?  We are the best team in the league standings wise the past 12 games.   9-3.  Also should have won the last game but didn't (we outplayed WNP).  Why is it whenever we lose the fire Green noise amps up, and when we win he has nothing to do about it?  If you haven't noticed we are dont better then expected - maybe we could do even better for sure - and maybe TG is getting better too the same way JB has as a manager.

 

Speaking of which - as manager you don't fire staff for doing their job - which TG has undoubtedly done.   You find better players for him to work with - and only fire someone if they aren't producing to acceptable expectations.   

 

I wouldnt mind Gallant either - but still believe TG is getting a good effort from his players most nights - and the players themselves like him so there is no dressing room issues (for now at least).    Maybe the two teams should switch ha ha.  Who's next to hire one of these recycled coaches?   Gallant won't be out of work long, and neither would Green if he's fired based on what he's managed so far. 

I like stone but his a star two way player like o'reilly with the blues and only meant they lack offense stars like Hughes , Petey and the list goes on. 

Thats all I meant by that. 

 

Woah I've stated I like green and think he will become a good nhl coach cause of his skills he has but he lacks experience and who does he have on his staff he can turn too? I want experience on the coaching staff , I've been saying that for awhile now....

I know it came across as fire green but I see talent there but I'm done with this learning on the job b.s and I want to see green and the team do well so that's why I'm all about bringing in experience cause I can see it helping Green and the team. 

 

I got roasted pretty good back in I think the one gdt thread awhile back cause I would like to see a coaching staff like the flyers have or blue jackets , I think it would make green a better coach and help him figure out which D system works with his forward system and help cut down on the learning on the fly like he has been doing. 

 

Edit* if I have a green broke horse I don't put a green rider on that horse cause that's asking for problems.....

Edited January 16, 2020 by RowdyCanuck

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Lol yep.

 

I was on the fire Green bandwagon for a bit but I’m off it now. I’ll admit I was wrong.

 

Something still has to be done about our defensive system though. 

DeNiro you have a lot of clout,  not just because your avavtar is maybe the best on the CDC (but if there was a Pacino one it would be a close second) ... really whenever I see whining about Green on here my hackles get up a bit.  He's not perfect - neither is ANY coach.  The team is doing better then they have in years and this is my take on it.

 

#1.   Rules have changed since the lockout - guys like EP and QH can get away with not getting mugged (ok almost - 15 years ago Matheson would be a daily occurrence).  

 

#2.  BB is a bona-fide star.   4th in scoring for R wingers yet whenever he's not scoring there is an element in the CDC that razzes him.  F U mother FU!kers.  This is a young team. We do NOT have the troops right now to dominate.   Every single great team did their time, there is no team in the history of the NHL that won anything with rookies and sophomores.   In other words get real.   Young team.  Young team.  Young team.  Temper expectations.  We are FACTually doing better then the experts predicted.  And yes to one of you -  they are experts. 

 

#3. Miller this Miller that.  Great trade.  How old is he again?  Go back to number two and imagine what those guys can do three to five years from now.  He's awesome and he's teaching our guys how to play the right way.  Won't win anything until the core learns from him.  If we drafted him no way Horvat would be our Captain.

 

#4. Horvat.  Just awesome.  Pearson too - and that's 100% on Green.   

 

#5 Goaltending.  JM All-Star!  By default.   Yes he's playing his best hockey yet - NO hes not elite (yet).  And NO he's not the reason we are where we are like some seem to think.  Andersson in TO has regularly been shell shocked since he came with a much better offense infront of him ... we are where we are at because we've had above average goaltending and the best offense we've seen since the Linden era.   Go look it up.

 

How does this relate to TG?  Well he's their coach and he's the guy that's jobs on the line of we lose too much.   So far he hasn't.   Feel that people think our middling defense is going to magically make us a contender.  It will not. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I like stone but his a star two way player like o'reilly with the blues and only meant they lack offense stars like Hughes , Petey and the list goes on. 

Thats all I meant by that. 

 

Woah I've stated I like green and think he will become a good nhl coach cause of his skills he has but he lacks experience and who does he have on his staff he can turn too? I want experience on the coaching staff , I've been saying that for awhile now....

I know it came across as fire green but I see talent there but I'm done with this learning on the job b.s and I want to see green and the team do well so that's why I'm all about bringing in experience cause I can see it helping Green and the team. 

 

I got roasted pretty good back in I think the one gdt thread awhile back cause I would like to see a coaching staff like the flyers have or blue jackets , I think it would make green a better coach and help him figure out which D system works with his forward system and help cut down on the learning on the fly like he has been doing. 

 

Edit* if I have a green broke horse I don't put a green rider on that horse cause that's asking for problems.....

That's absolutely fair.  I don't read everything on here so sorry if I was a bit rough.  I'm in total agreement that adding good experience would only help this team.  Would be over the moon if Larry Robinson took interest in us like he did with the Blues last year and if he wanted to coach our team would say my goodbyes to Green and wish him all the luck in the world.   I get that Gallant has a neat aura around him and players coaches are my absolute favourite (who wants a to play for a dick right?). Quin was a master at this and every guy on the team would go through a wall for him.  Much better style then fear based as it only goes so far and always backfires eventually (see Babcock, Keenan, old Hitchcock and Torts x 2 - TB and NYR.

 

Rowdy Canuck will stop being a dick to you now that I get it.  Keep up the good fight. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by IBatch

[RowdyCanuck]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That's absolutely fair.  I don't read everything on here so sorry if I was a bit rough.  I'm in total agreement that adding good experience would only help this team.  Would be over the moon if Larry Robinson took interest in us like he did with the Blues last year and if he wanted to coach our team would say my goodbyes to Green and wish him all the luck in the world.   I get that Gallant has a neat aura around him and players coaches are my absolute favourite (who wants a to play for a dick right?). Quin was a master at this and every guy on the team would go through a wall for him.  Much better style then fear based as it only goes so far and always backfires eventually (see Babcock, Keenan, old Hitchcock).

 

Rowdy Canuck will stop being a dick to you now that I get it.  Keep up the good fight. 

Lol funny thing is I don't really care who joins Greens staff DeBor or Gallant....

those guys won't be out of a job long....

i don't want to miss out on some of the good coaches out there and I'm not talking babs either lol

I agree playing for a dick only lasts so long and that's why I like green as a coach he seems like a good guy but gallant would balance him out...i use gallant as a example cause I cant think of any D coaches off the top of my head. 

 

No need to stop lol I enough our conversation or debates on here ha

you don't use name calling and you use facts or you can atleast back up what you say and I respect that ha

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

I think you actually supported what Dumb Nuck was saying. AV refused to retaliate to get more PP yet they went something like 3-35 in the Boston series. Boston was able to nullify the guys who were "too cute" with the puck and were able to overcome that strategy. It never worked then so why would we copy that strategy again?

You said yourself that the second PP unit, is being more successful. This type of Unit is what is going to be more successful in the playoffs as well.

Hard work, shoot on net and go for the rebound type of attack. 

Who cares what kind of success happens during the regular season as long as we make it to the playoffs. Does anybody care that we win another Presidents Cup? 

I think the big argument regarding Coaching is that there is concern that TG may not be able to get this core to the point that they can push themselves to overcoming adversity to win a championship. They seem content to losing and "we will get them next time" type of attitude. Any type of adversity and the excuses come out, "there a good team over there", "we weren't ready", "we have key injuries right now" , "there a big,heavy team" etc. etc. etc. 

That's OK for a bunch of youngsters(AHL?) but I think when you are in the NHL there is a little more expectations. 

There are many "talented" teams(Tampa,Toronto) in the REGULAR SEASON but do they have the "intangibles" to be successful in the post season?

I think its the GM's job to find these players with these characteristics and the Coaches job is to bring the best out of these players. 

Can Travis take these guys to the next level? Can you be successful in the playoffs if you are refusing to body check? Can you build a TEAM when you are not sticking up for each other? 

Why are we better then we were 3 years ago? Petey, Hughes, Miller and the improved play of Marky are probably why. 

We won't know if TG can get us to the next level if we don't give him the chance and so for he's deserved it.

 

We don't have any fighters or big brothers on the roster to give the guys the bump they'd need to hit indiscriminately.   If I was coaching the team all I'd do is exactly the same thing except giving the second unit more PP time.  It's how we are winning our 5 x 5 scoring doesn't do it and TG knows this.   He's also won three games this year on his decisions - one he went to the second unit because the firstborn was flat that game and it worked (basically benched the first unit).   Hey I'm just a regular guy watching it but I'm in favour of playing the units more equally. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm not won't know unless he does it.  This thread has become about whether TG should keep his job and I'm in his corner.  Don't really know if I'm right but the results speak for themselves and until we lose a lot more then we SHOULD be ... I won't change my mind.   He's doing fine - the teams doing fine - we are not a contender (yet) and don't have rose coloured glasses with any of it.  Dont think the 2010-2013 is relevant at all to this team.  Times have changed and refs call it by the book more then ever as they have taken over the policing completely.  Otherwise both EP and QH would be in the infirmary right now.   JB is an early adopter with his picks - genius really.  Next time we make it to the final expect different results.   The way Boston acted wouldn't fly now at all and they'd be done in five games given how many PPs we'd have. 

[erkayloomeh]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

And why is Pearson doing awesome?  Green - go and see what he had to say about him.   I'm not sure if we'd be doing much better with a different coach - sure it's possible- but it's also possible we won't and start underachieving.   This isn't a top team (yet), it will take time.

My point is that it seems we should be higher in the standings with the lineup we have. 

If we're only average which players would you think are not adequate enough to make us higher than we are ?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, erkayloomeh said:

My point is that it seems we should be higher in the standings with the lineup we have. 

If we're only average which players would you think are not adequate enough to make us higher than we are ?

JB made moves to support our young core (who are really good) with quality experienced guys.  We have really good goaltending too.

JB needs to support the entire group now with a top coach.  Our team is a lot better than our current standing.  If Gallant is snapped up, and then we fire Green, that’s a HUGE mistake by us.   

[RowdyCanuck]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

We won't know if TG can get us to the next level if we don't give him the chance and so for he's deserved it.

 

We don't have any fighters or big brothers on the roster to give the guys the bump they'd need to hit indiscriminately.   If I was coaching the team all I'd do is exactly the same thing except giving the second unit more PP time.  It's how we are winning our 5 x 5 scoring doesn't do it and TG knows this.   He's also won three games this year on his decisions - one he went to the second unit because the firstborn was flat that game and it worked (basically benched the first unit).   Hey I'm just a regular guy watching it but I'm in favour of playing the units more equally. Maybe I'm right maybe I'm not won't know unless he does it.  This thread has become about whether TG should keep his job and I'm in his corner.  Don't really know if I'm right but the results speak for themselves and until we lose a lot more then we SHOULD be ... I won't change my mind.   He's doing fine - the teams doing fine - we are not a contender (yet) and don't have rose coloured glasses with any of it.  Dont think the 2010-2013 is relevant at all to this team.  Times have changed and refs call it by the book more then ever as they have taken over the policing completely.  Otherwise both EP and QH would be in the infirmary right now.   JB is an early adopter with his picks - genius really.  Next time we make it to the final expect different results.   The way Boston acted wouldn't fly now at all and they'd be done in five games given how many PPs we'd have. 

A lot of fans see what you see....Green has the tools to be a good NHL coach but for a lot of the reasons you've stated he develops players with the best of them but that's what you want in the ahl not NHL.....

he lacks in game experience and he could get that in the ahl and still develop talent there. 

Honestly I don't put all the blame on him...we have a D system that does him no favors and I've stated before Green has made similar mistakes as willie coaching wise and adding  a vet would go a long way now Green would have someone to turn too. 

 

Your right we don't have a fighter or a big brother type like reeves....we have a roster full of pests and guys that play the right way and I thinking adding even a simmonds or reeves would go a long way and maybe fire up the boys to play bigger and with more fire. 

 

Theres something special about this team and I think if Jim can add say a mean right handed stay at home d man for Hughes and add a fighter we could pull off some upsets in the playoffs and maybe have a run like the oilers did or flames in 03/04....two teams that out worked everybody along the way and played mean.