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Coronavirus outbreak

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Just now, HKSR said:

Sounds good!  Let's keep it rolling!  Let everyone keep it flowing in and out.  It's here, it's too late, we shouldn't do anything further to keep more cases from entering.  Wonder what would happen if China all of a sudden let people freely flow in and out of their country... hmmm.... 

So you try to logically argue for border closing and then when confronted with some expert opinions (there is a lot more) you go for the emotional play.  China if you don't recall actually at the very outbreak when it could have been stopped or contained the Chinese Communist Party pretended it wasn't happening.   Remember?    You should get a 5 minute penalty or something for this.

 

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4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Particularly given how much issue there is just down our coast in Washington and California. If we're attempting to flatten the curve, continuing to freely allow our people down there and theirs up here would seem to do the opposite...

again look at what the experts say not what you think makes sense.  And lets be honest right now not a lot of people are going on trips.   it is pretty much essential purposes.    Social distancing means keeping distance from people and large groups.  Driving from Seattle to Van doesn't necessarily lead to that does it?   

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1 minute ago, samurai said:

So you try to logically argue for border closing and then when confronted with some expert opinions (there is a lot more) you go for the emotional play.  China if you don't recall actually at the very outbreak when it could have been stopped or contained the Chinese Communist Party pretended it wasn't happening.   Remember?    You should get a 5 minute penalty or something for this.

 

These experts are failing miserably in the Western world to contain this virus.  Might there be some political and economical aspects to the decisions that countries are making?  Notice how every medical expert usually finishes their response with something along the lines of how it would be detrimental to the nation economically.

 

Again, what on Earth do the experts think would happen if China opened all of its borders again... RIGHT NOW.  What do YOU think would happen? 

 

Don't be blinded by politically/economically charged responses from medical leaders.  They still have someone they need to report to at the end of the day.

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Just now, HKSR said:

These experts are failing miserably in the Western world to contain this virus.  Might there be some political and economical aspects to the decisions that countries are making?  Notice how every medical expert usually finishes their response with something along the lines of how it would be detrimental to the nation economically.

 

Again, what on Earth do the experts think would happen if China opened all of its borders again... RIGHT NOW.  What do YOU think would happen? 

 

Don't be blinded by politically/economically charged responses from medical leaders.  They still have someone they need to report to at the end of the day.

i got to agree with this.

 

The whole goal of the current measures are to slow the outbreak and "flatten the curve".  If there are 12 people (hypothetically) in Vancouver seeding this disease, unknowingly, and then you are letting in an indeterminate number people carrying the disease through the border, doesn't that speed up the spread?  Sure the cat is out of the bag already, but if the whole goal is to slow this thing down why add more seeds into the community?

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13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No it’s not.  It’s culling those who are sickly and weak.  Children mostly don’t even present symptoms.  Strong healthy adults don’t have issues either.  Elderly even get better, providing they weren’t sickly to start with.  It’s getting smokers though.  But smokers are kind of sickly to start with.  

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-age-older-people-higher-risk-2020-2

 

Chart of death rate  by age.

10-19 yrs       .2%

20-29             .2%

30-39             .2%

40-49             .4%

50-59             1.3 %

60-69             3.6%

70-79             8%

80+                14.8%           

 

So as I said, it is killing children, and young adults in their prime, just not at the much higher rate for the rest of the people.

 

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46 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You're missing the point Jimmy.  I'm not disagreeing with you that goods can continue to move from country to country.  I'm saying that the poltical table is definitely pitting medical professionals against economic/business folks, and Trudeau is providing solutions in the middle when in reality, if stopping the virus is the priority, the borders need to close, and measures need to be taken within Canada to enforce social distancing.

I'm sure it is, we won't know to what degree until we have more data. Whats refreshing to me is a lot of major companies seem to be very much on board with restrictions. 

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Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm sure it is, we won't know to what degree until we have more data. Whats refreshing to me is a lot of major companies seem to be very much on board with restrictions. 

Agreed.  I hope more join in soon.

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31 minutes ago, samurai said:

dude this is cool - people should look and learn

it really is, its the best thing I've seen yet that compares quarantine vs social distancing. 

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People looking to and blaming the federal government for their response so far make me laugh. There are, as far as I now 375 cases across Canada. Is that cause for concern? Sure. How can you mitigate this? If you're one of the complainers, well, what are you doing about it? Are you self-quarantining while healthy? Or performing activities as usual?   

 

I'm avoiding all crowds, transit, person to person contact where possible. Exceptions are groceries and alcohol.  

 

Pay attention to your own actions, reflect upon whether or not you are doing what you can to keep the curve from spiking.  

 

The only thing I'm not to versed on which I'll pipe up about is ground/air travel from the US. Shut it down is my stance. Full stop. If you're Canadian you have to drive across. In Florida? Fly to the border and rent a car. My 2 cents on that.  

 

In the meantime, whatever decision Trudeau announces today will not have been made lightly. We're right on track to beating this brush fire back, but some common sense from individuals is needed to help. 

 

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4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

These experts are failing miserably in the Western world to contain this virus.  Might there be some political and economical aspects to the decisions that countries are making?  Notice how every medical expert usually finishes their response with something along the lines of how it would be detrimental to the nation economically.

 

Again, what on Earth do the experts think would happen if China opened all of its borders again... RIGHT NOW.  What do YOU think would happen? 

 

Don't be blinded by politically/economically charged responses from medical leaders.  They still have someone they need to report to at the end of the day.

Well they apparently got it right in Taiwan.  If they opened the borders in China right now I don't think many Chinese would be flying to NA or Europe for a holiday.  

 

Medical experts, good ones at that know that they cannot apply ideal in the lab views to real life contexts.  If you haven't noticed people on this site are getting laid off and losing their livelihood. Those outcomes are what good scientists also think about.   There are always humans variables that impact medical decisions.  

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, nux4lyfe said:

 

I like what he has said so far. lol.

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it really is, its the best thing I've seen yet that compares quarantine vs social distancing. 

 

data visualization is a hobby of mine, and it is shame more people won't see this.  people don't read or want to at the level they need to in order to understand how it works so this would make it a lot easier.  I am going to look at it a few more times.   

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Natural vaccine is far off.  A year likely.  Best we accept reality, and let nature take its course.  This virus culls the weak.  It’s not harming our children and healthiest working class.  Seems like it’s nature doing what nature does.  

It's unfortunate, because i've generally enjoyed your post for a long while now, but the ignorance, negativity & and stupidity in your posts for the last while is astonishing!!! It may be best if you take a break from posting and go do other stuff / enjoy some other aspects of life!!

Edited by IRR
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3 minutes ago, samurai said:

Well they apparently got it right in Taiwan.  If they opened the borders in China right now I don't think many Chinese would be flying to NA or Europe for a holiday.  

 

Medical experts, good ones at that know that they cannot apply ideal in the lab views to real life contexts.  If you haven't noticed people on this site are getting laid off and losing their livelihood. If you haven't noticed, people around the world are getting sick and losing their lives.Those outcomes are what good scientists also think about.   There are always humans variables that impact medical decisions.  

 

 

 

 

 

For China's sake, it wouldn't matter how many Chinese leave China.  It's the problem of how many people would fly back into China to get back to loved ones.  This is the boomerang issue that China has been talking about.  The fear of the virus coming back in while the rest of the world is in shambles right now.  That right there is clear evidence of the value of closing borders right now. 

 

I fixed your second paragraph for you.

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Posted (edited)

Just wondering how you feel about the NHL allowing players to go back home?

 

Do you think it’s wise, given no players are currently positive with the virus, and they will be travelling on planes, and possibly be going to more high risk areas?

Do you think the NHL has probably decided the season is over given this decision?

 

 

 

Edited by redhdlois

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1 minute ago, redhdlois said:

Just wondering how you feel about the NHL allowing players to go back home?

 

Do you think it’s wise, given no players are currently positive with the virus, and they will be travelling on planes?

Do you think the NHL has probably decided the season is over given this decision?

 

 

 

At the end of the day, players are just people like you and I.  It really should be at their own discretion what they want to do.

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3 minutes ago, gurn said:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/685d0ace521648f8a5beeeee1b9125cd

168,019 cases

6,610 deaths

147 counties or territories

March16 16:00 CET

 

Now at  1 in 25.4 dying.     Not scientific by any means, but when this virus got going in China the rate was  1 in 34 ish.

I read an article talking about how viruses change as they hop from animal to human, and when they do so they are "young" from a human standpoint. It took an evolution to make such a leap, and viral evolution is not uncommon, which is why we have so many flus and not 1 true vaccine, for example. As a virus' main concern is to replicate and pass to a new host, it is not advantageous to be lethal prior to transmission. Our immune system is different of that of birds and bats so the virus must mutate to use us effectively as hosts, and most importantly, those mutations are not necessarily bad for us as its an automatic compromise between the virus and our immune system.

 

His point? Sort of the opposite of your last line, and keep in mind 2 things: we can't really trust the numbers out of China, and we probably can trust the numbers out of Italy, but they have an aging population that is exactly who this virus thrives in.  

 

No source, can't remember where I read it.

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