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deus.ex.makina

[Discussion] Getting Domi

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27 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Hockey buzz. Lol. There’s your problem. 

well, carol schram writes on there for the canucks and is quite good. i don’t read ekland. 

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Not even in the ballpark for what Domi would be worth in a trade...  not that Montreal would be looking to trade him.

 

Maybe something like:

 

Virtanen

Stecher

Madden

2nd round pick 

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3 minutes ago, Provost said:

Not even in the ballpark for what Domi would be worth in a trade...  not that Montreal would be looking to trade him.

 

Maybe something like:

 

Virtanen

Stecher

Madden

2nd round pick 

They’re at 49/50 contracts.  It would have to be a 1/1 trade. Quality for quality. There’s no reason for them to move him. 

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I think you'd be looking at something like Virtanen, Lind, and a 2nd...at which point I'm not sure it's worth it.

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1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

I think you'd be looking at something like Virtanen, Lind, and a 2nd...at which point I'm not sure it's worth it.

Less quantity. More quality. Would you trade Horvat for that? 

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Just now, qwijibo said:

Less quantity. More quality. Would you trade Horvat for that? 

Horvat is more valuable than Domi, imo, albeit only slightly. 

 

Lind looks very good in Utica this year and I think is likely to end up as a good 2nd/3rd line player. Virtanen is already a good and young 2nd line player with great physicality to boot. I debated between a 2nd and 1st rounder, but either way, those are fairly high picks. I don't feel that value is far off and it's much closer than the OPs proposal.

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9 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Horvat is more valuable than Domi, imo, albeit only slightly. 

 

Lind looks very good in Utica this year and I think is likely to end up as a good 2nd/3rd line player. Virtanen is already a good and young 2nd line player with great physicality to boot. I debated between a 2nd and 1st rounder, but either way, those are fairly high picks. I don't feel that value is far off and it's much closer than the OPs proposal.

The only real difference value wise is the fact that Horvat is signed for 3 more seasons (at which point he becomes UFA). Domi is RFA this summer.  So potentially he can remain under team control for up to 5 more years if the team chooses an 8 year contract.  So I’d say that negates the difference there

 

They’re the same age. Were  drafted 3 spots apart. Horvat is a C. Domi has shown he can play at C or W

Horvat has 264 points in 426 games (.619 ppg average) 

Domi has 241 points in 354 games (.681 ppg average) 

Horvat is bigger, Domi plays with more of an edge.  
 

I really don’t see how Horvat is more valuable. So I ask again. Would you trade Horvat for an equivalent package? 

Edited by qwijibo

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2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

How would you feel if the Habs offered Lehkonen, Mike Reilly and Karl Alzner for Brock Boeser?

For a RFA Brock Boeser who could walk for nothing ? Tell me you if you would turn down on Lehkonen... 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, deus.ex.makina said:

For a RFA Brock Boeser who could walk for nothing ? Tell me you if you would turn down on Lehkonen... 

 

 

Do you not understand the difference between an RFA and UFA?  An RFA can’t “walk for nothing”. 

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54 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Less quantity. More quality. Would you trade Horvat for that? 

I don't agree with the Horvat comparison, and we are in a much different position than Montreal is.  They need to massively rejig their lineup and are nowhere near the playoff bar.  A package that included a small step down in terms of a roster player along with a package of futures would certainly have more appeal to them than a team in the hunt for a playoff spot.

Having said that, I prefaced my comments with the note that I don't see any reason why Montreal would move him.  They have other pieces to move that could attract interest (even at a low return) that would free up lots of cap space in order to make deals either to take on some slightly inefficent cap space or to sign UFAs to relatively good value deals in the summer when most other teams won't have any money.

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1 minute ago, Provost said:

I don't agree with the Horvat comparison, and we are in a much different position than Montreal is.  They need to massively rejig their lineup and are nowhere near the playoff bar.  A package that included a small step down in terms of a roster player along with a package of futures would certainly have more appeal to them than a team in the hunt for a playoff spot.

Having said that, I prefaced my comments with the note that I don't see any reason why Montreal would move him.  They have other pieces to move that could attract interest (even at a low return) that would free up lots of cap space in order to make deals either to take on some slightly inefficent cap space or to sign UFAs to relatively good value deals in the summer when most other teams won't have any money.

What dont you agree with with regards to the Horvat comparison?  I think they’re very good comparables 

 

Also. Montreal is not in nearly as dire shape as you suggest.  They were a 96 point team last year. They got nailed with simultaneous injuries to 3 of their top 6 (4 of their top 9) forwards.  They didn’t have the depth to deal with it. Prior to the rash of injuries they were right near the top of the Atlantic.  They have a number of very good young players with blue chip prospects at all positions. They have a boatload if picks in this years draft. And a bunch of cap space with Domi the only notable RFA this summer. 
 

Domi is 24, has put up a 72 point season, and loves playing in Montreal. He’s part of the solution. He doesn’t get traded short of a massive overpay. (Like Horvat in Vancouver). 

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Really? Leivo, a guy so badly concussed he isn't even in the NHL, and Fantenberg? It's trades like this that gives the proposal section a bad name. If you were Montreal would you accept that deal for Domi? Lol. If the answer is yes stop doing drugs.

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1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

Do you not understand the difference between an RFA and UFA?  An RFA can’t “walk for nothing”. 

Sure i could have said "barely nothing". If he still struggles to produce, and get an offersheet for something like 4M due to this current season, i guess the return is something like a second round pick. and a second round pick for Domi is barely nothing for a player like that. The price would be way too high to offer sheet him more than 4.2M, who turns into a 1st and a 3rd or something like that.  
that would be a bridge deal under 4.2 to limit the return, then a 6-7.5M a year after if he would be back to his old production. 

lets say i was very under the price tag here - and i assume- 

would you do a Pearson + Leivo + Fantenberg for Domi ?    
that would immediately help ther deplated lineup, and we get the last top 6 to our group. and not anyone, but Horvat's best friend.  

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11 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

It's trades like this that gives the proposal section a bad name. 

Really ? it's not the fact that everytime there is a trade somewhere in the league it takes the CDC so called "experts" off guards ? 
"could'nt see it coming" "completely loopsided" "where were you Benning?" lol how many times i read that. 
so take it easy expert, this kind of deal is not that uncommun, and we don't know what s going on behind the scene. 
kiss :) 

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17 minutes ago, deus.ex.makina said:

Sure i could have said "barely nothing". If he still struggles to produce, and get an offersheet for something like 4M due to this current season, i guess the return is something like a second round pick. and a second round pick for Domi is barely nothing for a player like that. The price would be way too high to offer sheet him more than 4.2M, who turns into a 1st and a 3rd or something like that.  
that would be a bridge deal under 4.2 to limit the return, then a 6-7.5M a year after if he would be back to his old production. 

lets say i was very under the price tag here - and i assume- 

would you do a Pearson + Leivo + Fantenberg for Domi ?    
that would immediately help ther deplated lineup, and we get the last top 6 to our group. and not anyone, but Horvat's best friend.  

Lol. If someone convinced Domi to sign an offer sheet for $4.2m Montreal would immediately match it and send a bottle of wine to the GM that signed him to that gift. So no. I wouldn’t take a couple bottom 6 players for a young top line 72 point C/W

Edited by qwijibo

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4 hours ago, deus.ex.makina said:

For a RFA Brock Boeser who could walk for nothing ? Tell me you if you would turn down on Lehkonen... 

 

 

An RFA can't "walk for nothing". And even if he could, chances are the Habs could do a lot better at the trade deadline than a 7th Dman, a injured middle 6 forward and a cap dump. 

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5 hours ago, qwijibo said:

The only real difference value wise is the fact that Horvat is signed for 3 more seasons (at which point he becomes UFA). Domi is RFA this summer.  So potentially he can remain under team control for up to 5 more years if the team chooses an 8 year contract.  So I’d say that negates the difference there

 

They’re the same age. Were  drafted 3 spots apart. Horvat is a C. Domi has shown he can play at C or W

Horvat has 264 points in 426 games (.619 ppg average) 

Domi has 241 points in 354 games (.681 ppg average) 

Horvat is bigger, Domi plays with more of an edge.  
 

I really don’t see how Horvat is more valuable. So I ask again. Would you trade Horvat for an equivalent package? 

Intangibles. Horvat is our team leader and inspires our guys. 

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Just now, -AJ- said:

Intangibles. Horvat is our team leader and inspires our guys. 

I think the point is that it's still semi-close value. Boeser is the example I would preferably use, but the point still stands. We're not landing a star player for the stuff lying in our junk drawer. 

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5 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think the point is that it's still semi-close value. Boeser is the example I would preferably use, but the point still stands. We're not landing a star player for the stuff lying in our junk drawer. 

Fair enough, but I feel my offer to substantially more than the OPs proposal. Lind and Virtanen aren't exactly in our junk drawer. Throw in a high pick like a 1st and I'm not sure you're too far off in value.

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5 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I think you'd be looking at something like Virtanen, Lind, and a 2nd...at which point I'm not sure it's worth it.

Really? I’ll take that deal and won’t look back. 

 

The chances of Lind and that 2nd turning into a viable NHL player are pretty low. Lind is having a great season in the minors, but as you and I know that means very little until he can show what he can do in the NHL. I mean, take a look at what Pouliot is doing in the AHL, currently. A near point per game player in the minors, but he struggle to stay on a NHL roster.

 

So, essentially the deal for Montreal is Virtanen and two hopefuls for Domi.

 

Edited by shiznak
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