oldnews Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Overall, I see the Canucks' position this way: 1) they are showing that they can compete with the players they presently have - the pressure or need to add is tapering off somewhat. They also have some good, improving options from within. 2) they have done their spending when the market was low - via last summer's cap crunch for a lot of other teams = Miller, Myers, Ferland, Benn....there isn't a lot of flexibility left - there may be shorter term flexibility via Leivo and Ferland IR cap relief, but any deal is either a rental, sending cap back, or bloody well worth it. 3) the relative benefit of a rental has to be weighed against the asset costs - and imo it's better to retain their youth, prospect, picks at this point, and the flexibilty they afford moving forward, unless that rental is a game-changing, low risk addition that could put them 'over the top'. For me that boils down to a limited field, which I wouldn't put Granlund in. Ie A guy already mentioned in this thread = Kreider. Always wanted him - would pay a reasonable price to 'rent' and dream of re-signing him (that would cost additional assets to clear the space for him) - but if you are looking to enhance your competitiveness short term for a run, that is the player - that when added to a mix with Miller, Pearson, Horvat, Virtanen, etc - becomes intimidatingly heavier - and a 'run' might become a realistic possibility if you add a player like that. I'd probably kick that tire, but my expectations would be very low - and my underlying disposition a bit conservative at this point. With the Rags falling off the pace though, he's possibly going to be hitting the market, so I can see why Nashville would want to get out ahead of that and shop a Granlund early. haha. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: $1.6m Baer is not likely to interfere with them going after Hall, Kreider or whoever. They're unlikely to get solely picks/prospects for Granlund at his present value. Other playoff teams will want/need to send cap back. Did I suggest Stecher would overtake Fabbro? Nope, I clearly suggested he would be an upgrade on Weber/Irwin. Both of whom expire this summer. Nor does Stecher necessarily stop them from going after Dillon this summer. Ellis, Fabbro, Dillon/Stecher would be a vast improvement on their right D from what they have this year. They have a couple of D prospects who are going to be waiver eligible - Alex Carrier being one. He's an AHL All-star. I don't see them interested in Stecher when they have young Ds they've developed and he doesn't bring size. Irwin/Weber are being paid league minimum and play some 10-12min when their top-4 are healthy - spend a lot of time in the pressbox. Stecher is expensive to have that role. I don't see where they would play Baertschi. They are most certainly bringing back Grimaldi and have Trenin ready for a spot. Their top-6 is too soft and needs size - it's been an issue for a while. Poile talked of how valuable cap space is. I can't see him wanting to limit his flexibility in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 I'd love to add Kreider as well @oldnews, he's likely to cost a bit more than Granlund though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 So with 18 million Dollars to spend this summer we will not have much free money to spend on Grandlund 27 yrs old, 5'10. 185 lbs.. So 18 million and players to sign..... 30 - Markstrom 5.5 million - 4 yrs -- hope we have clues to trade in season 2021 with expansion if we need to... 23 - Virtanen - 3.5 x 4yrs -- This important young forward is key with his size and skill, speed..6'1 -220 lbs -- 20-25 G -- 44-48 points 26 - Lievo - 2.5 x 3 yrs -- solid top 9 forward can move up lineup.. 30 - Tanev - 5 million x 4 yrs ? might sign or trade ? 25- Stetcher - 3.8 million x 4 yrs ?? I really feel Stetcher will be packaged in trade.. So with 18 million Jim will have to move some bodies out but we have some bodies in Utica ready to move up.. Rafferty D - 24 yrs old, 6'2 -- Juolevi D , 22 , 6'2 will be future #2 o # 3 D man for many years.. MacEwen 6'4 - 23 ready for 4th line role.. Bright exciting future stay on path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, aGENT said: I'd love to add Kreider as well @oldnews, he's likely to cost a bit more than Granlund though. Obviously - a whole lot more - but if you're renting players the point is to compete/contend (otherwise you're not sacrificing futures).- and half-measures like Granlund are probably not who you have in mind. With a trade partner like the rethinging Rags, you may have the possibility of sending cap back as part of a larger deal - even there, they have RFAs like DeAngelo and Strome expiriing - probably some flexibility moving forward - but whether they're in 'asset management' mode where they're looking for assets to eat cap is doubtful = I think that's less on the priority list of competent rethingers than it is in the minds of fans thinking they're maximizing asset management with every mid pick they can get by eating dead weight. If I'm the Rags, I probably try to sell high on Strome as opposed to let go of Kreider - they may be looking to retain both - simply falling out of a playoff race doesn't necessarily make a team a seller where their best assets are concerned - but from a Canucks perspective, I'm not really that hard into the market at this point - and if I am it's because I'm serious about this year's possibilities. One thing that factors in = if you spend on a worthwhile asset like Kreider and enhance your possibility of a run, you can reduce the potential cost of MIller in the process - ie if you finish fairly respectably high in the standings....the pick you're sending the Bolts could be a relatively low % mid to late 1st. I'm not sure how many contending teams would be in a position to rent and re-sign Kreider, but the likelihood that he's dealt probably depends on the kind of return the Rags would get in that kind of circumstance, otherwise acquiring him is probably a pipe-dream. If things work out and this team makes the playoffs - I think we may have already got one of those when we landed Miller for a non-lottery late rounder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Canucks need better D more than better forwards Wrong target 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Shift-4 said: Canucks need better D more than better forwards Wrong target This I agree with. But I wouldn't say no to cheap Granlund either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, wildcam said: So with 18 million Dollars to spend this summer we will not have much free money to spend on Grandlund 27 yrs old, 5'10. 185 lbs.. So 18 million and players to sign..... 30 - Markstrom 5.5 million - 4 yrs -- hope we have clues to trade in season 2021 with expansion if we need to... 23 - Virtanen - 3.5 x 4yrs -- This important young forward is key with his size and skill, speed..6'1 -220 lbs -- 20-25 G -- 44-48 points 26 - Lievo - 2.5 x 3 yrs -- solid top 9 forward can move up lineup.. 30 - Tanev - 5 million x 4 yrs ? might sign or trade ? 25- Stetcher - 3.8 million x 4 yrs ?? I really feel Stetcher will be packaged in trade.. So with 18 million Jim will have to move some bodies out but we have some bodies in Utica ready to move up.. Rafferty D - 24 yrs old, 6'2 -- Juolevi D , 22 , 6'2 will be future #2 o # 3 D man for many years.. MacEwen 6'4 - 23 ready for 4th line role.. Bright exciting future stay on path. yep I hate to say it Stecher isn't worth the 3.8 and neither is Leivo at 2.5 , its not that I don't like them, we just need the cap space and we have Rafferty Joelevi, Hoglander , Lind etc to fill those spots.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, oldnews said: Overall, I see the Canucks' position this way: 1) they are showing that they can compete with the players they presently have - the pressure or need to add is tapering off somewhat. They also have some good, improving options from within. 2) they have done their spending when the market was low - via last summer's cap crunch for a lot of other teams = Miller, Myers, Ferland, Benn....there isn't a lot of flexibility left - there may be shorter term flexibility via Leivo and Ferland IR cap relief, but any deal is either a rental, sending cap back, or bloody well worth it. 3) the relative benefit of a rental has to be weighed against the asset costs - and imo it's better to retain their youth, prospect, picks at this point, and the flexibilty they afford moving forward, unless that rental is a game-changing, low risk addition that could put them 'over the top'. Benning said as much today. He's happy with not only how the team is playing, but the chemistry that has developed. So he's not only more hesitant to try to add a top-6 now, but figures there is enough in the pipeline to supplement or "add" internally. Not only with Ferland and Leivo to return, but others like Bailey he'd like to have a look at as well. No to Granlund, especially at that price. Kreider would be great, especially for playoff heaviness, but at what cost. Not to mention there will be other suitors willing to bid him up. Edmonton and Calgary would love to get someone like Kreider into their fluffy lineups. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, aGENT said: $1.6m Baer is not likely to interfere with them going after Hall, Kreider or whoever. They're unlikely to get solely picks/prospects for Granlund at his present value. Other playoff teams will want/need to send cap back. Did I suggest Stecher would overtake Fabbro? Nope, I clearly suggested he would be an upgrade on Weber/Irwin. Both of whom expire this summer. Nor does Stecher necessarily stop them from going after Dillon this summer. Ellis, Fabbro, Dillon/Stecher would be a vast improvement on their right D from what they have this year. Isn't Dillon a LD? Unless he's one of those left handed RD types. Stecher wouldn't get in the way of Dillon positionally to further your argument (if he's an LD like I thought). Dillon would replace Hamhuis quite nicely while Stecher would fill in for Weber/Irwin as suggested and Nashville seems to love their BC boys. We would certainly have to make even more moves to open up some winger spots to add another though. I do wonder if they don't take Baertschi, would Sutter be of interest to them. They aren't in a huge need for centers, but Sutter can play wing well and is good insurance as a center. Sutter does have a modified NTC, but surely he would love to go to a country town like Nashville. A couple of players with actual NHL value for a guy that isn't working out for them seems fair. They take the risk of Sutter being hurt, but we take the risk of Granlund being a dud. They take on an extra year, but gain a young-ish dman who's an upgrade to their current RD IMO who's still an RFA, so they have negotiating rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, theo5789 said: A couple of players with actual NHL value for a guy that isn't working out for them seems fair. They take the risk of Sutter being hurt, but we take the risk of Granlund being a dud. They take on an extra year, but gain a young-ish dman who's an upgrade to their current RD IMO who's still an RFA, so they have negotiating rights. I think we're better-off with Sutter, he's a better fit in our lineup right now. Sure we have another year of cap, but next year isn't a problem anyway. Scoring isn't an issue, we need to tighten up on preventing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Gaudette Celly said: Benning said as much today. He's happy with not only how the team is playing, but the chemistry that has developed. So he's not only more hesitant to try to add a top-6 now, but figures there is enough in the pipeline to supplement or "add" internally. Not only with Ferland and Leivo to return, but others like Bailey he'd like to have a look at as well. No to Granlund, especially at that price. Kreider would be great, especially for playoff heaviness, but at what cost. Not to mention there will be other suitors willing to bid him up. Edmonton and Calgary would love to get someone like Kreider into their fluffy lineups. Just to be Devil's advocate , he also said this: Quote SN: Does that mean you won’t be looking for another top-six winger which you said in December you were targeting? JB: I’m not saying that. I’m going to be in the marketplace. But I’m not necessarily going to sacrifice draft picks to make the team better for two months. I hope that we keep competing and win our share of games because I want to make the playoffs. But on rentals, I’m going to be careful that we’re not going to be giving up high draft picks or the prospects we’ve worked to develop just for help for a couple of months. Edited January 21, 2020 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Isn't Dillon a LD? Unless he's one of those left handed RD types. Stecher wouldn't get in the way of Dillon positionally to further your argument (if he's an LD like I thought). Dillon would replace Hamhuis quite nicely while Stecher would fill in for Weber/Irwin as suggested and Nashville seems to love their BC boys. We would certainly have to make even more moves to open up some winger spots to add another though. I do wonder if they don't take Baertschi, would Sutter be of interest to them. They aren't in a huge need for centers, but Sutter can play wing well and is good insurance as a center. Sutter does have a modified NTC, but surely he would love to go to a country town like Nashville. A couple of players with actual NHL value for a guy that isn't working out for them seems fair. They take the risk of Sutter being hurt, but we take the risk of Granlund being a dud. They take on an extra year, but gain a young-ish dman who's an upgrade to their current RD IMO who's still an RFA, so they have negotiating rights. Alex Carrier is waiver eligible next season and a RD. He has been named to the AHL All Star later this month. At F their need is top-6 with size and physicality. Last game they played 4th liner Watson on the Johansen line. Forsberg Duchene (Granlund replacement) Jarnkrok Johansen Arvidsson Grimaldi Bonino (Smith UFA is also on the trade block) Watson Turris Sissons Trenin has looked really good when called up - they sent him down as he is going to the AHL All Star but he'll likely get a spot in their bottom-6 next season - Smith is also on the trade block which opens up that spot. Trenin is waiver eligible next season. Bonino, Turris, Sissons and Trenin are all Cs. Jarnkrok can also play C. There is no roster spot for Sutter and they have plenty of Cs. Poile says that his preference is to keep the group together - that's why he signs players long term. He does say that if someone is too comfortable/complacent he'll do something about it - but everyone now has a clean slater under Hynes. If they all get their act together, which is Poile's hope, there's no open spot other than Granlund's in the top-6. Edited January 21, 2020 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnuckleHead16 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Definitely worth picking up the phone To listen what their return value is... Sutter + Leivo + b prospect sounds ideal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 beginning of the end perhaps let me know when forsberg is available big big fan of that man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, aGENT said: From a Canucks perspective, he'd certainly fit the bill as the additional 'top 6 F' Benning stated he's looking for. And he'd almost certainly be one of the cheaper options. Seems to have just been a good player but really bad fit in Nashville. Well? Granlund has withered & wilted in Nashville. I reckon it has more to do with Matt Duchesne. This wilting & withering? It seems to have followed him around... I suspect Granlund will make a good aquisition for some team. That he will be low cost based on circumstance could make it a win for someone. But I dont want our Canucks paying futures. I have very little interest in rentals. Cheap or otherwise. Unless vvery cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gaudette Celly said: I think we're better-off with Sutter, he's a better fit in our lineup right now. Sure we have another year of cap, but next year isn't a problem anyway. Scoring isn't an issue, we need to tighten up on preventing. I think we are a better team with Sutter in the lineup as well. But we also need to get creative with opening up some cap space. Gaudette has pretty much taken Sutter's spot and he's a pricey 4th liner. This also opens up a roster spot should Tryamkin return or when bodies get healthy. Granlund was a 60+ point player not too long ago, so maybe a new team sparks him back (see JT Miller). If not, then it's one year and we move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, mll said: Alex Carrier is waiver eligible next season and a RD. He has been named to the AHL All Star later this month. At F their need is top-6 with size and physicality. Last game they played 4th liner Watson on the Johansen line. Forsberg Duchene (Granlund replacement) Jarnkrok Johansen Arvidsson Grimaldi Bonino (Smith UFA is also on the trade block) Watson Turris Sissons Trenin has looked really good when called up - they sent him down as he is going to the AHL All Star but he'll likely get a spot in their bottom-6 next season - Smith is also on the trade block which opens up that spot. Trenin is waiver eligible next season. Bonino, Turris, Sissons and Trenin are all Cs. Jarnkrok can also play C. There is no roster spot for Sutter and they have plenty of Cs. Poile says that his preference is to keep the group together - that's why he signs players long term. He does say that if someone is too comfortable/complacent he'll do something about it - but everyone now has a clean slater under Hynes. If they all get their act together, which is Poile's hope, there's no open spot other than Granlund's in the top-6. If they're looking for an effective replacement in their top 6, then they're not getting that in a Granlund deal. Unless they hope Baertschi can fill that need. Granlund's value is low and not many teams are going to be able to fit his contract even this season. I said in my post that I'm aware they aren't in need of centers, but Sutter has been playing wing just fine and is another insurance marker as a center. Gives them options to load a line by having Duchene and Johansen together or whatever to fill that top 6 hole potentially unless they want to offload picks and prospects to bolster the top 6 instead. I'd also suggest that Sutter would make a much better 4th line center than the projected Turris that you have there. Sutter would add experience on Trenin. They could still trade Smith as well for a pick or whatever. Also having a bunch of listed centers doesn't mean they are good at center eg Markus Granlund was a listed center when he was here, same with Gagner, neither were good in that role at the NHL level. Carrier could be an extra dman or rotate in for Stecher if need be. Both Weber and Irwin are 30+ year old UFAs that could be replaced and upgraded with more youthful Stecher and Carrier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, mll said: They have a couple of D prospects who are going to be waiver eligible - Alex Carrier being one. He's an AHL All-star. I don't see them interested in Stecher when they have young Ds they've developed and he doesn't bring size. Irwin/Weber are being paid league minimum and play some 10-12min when their top-4 are healthy - spend a lot of time in the pressbox. Stecher is expensive to have that role. I don't see where they would play Baertschi. They are most certainly bringing back Grimaldi and have Trenin ready for a spot. Their top-6 is too soft and needs size - it's been an issue for a while. Poile talked of how valuable cap space is. I can't see him wanting to limit his flexibility in the summer. Carrier is 5'11'' & 175lbs. If he had Ryan Ellis's ability to handle the puck under pressure. In the defensive end that is? He would already have more than 5 NHL games to his CV at age 23. As it is, he is a PP QB specialist that is not really going to supplant anyone in their line up. About to finish his post ELC 2knd 3 NHL contract having played just those 5 NHL games. You have a way of quoting the party line of each team. As if it is gospel. I recall 6 months ago you quoting the party speach, ie coaching stretegy, as spoken by their now just fired coach Laviolette. As reason they should not consider any of our forwards in trade. Because they would be a poor fit. But here we are & they have a new coach. We are ahead of them in the standings. And players on their own team are now on the trade block. But they don't need any of our guys? There is as much liklihood Carrier clears waivers next year. As there is him becoming the next Matt Grzylcyk. Clendenning was also an AHL all star. Stecher is a fearce battler in all zones by a comparison. There is a reason he is in the NHL and Carrier is not. I give Allard in their system a better chance. He is also that battler who punches above his weight defensively. And I believe Stecher would help Nashville more than Weber or Irwin who currently occupy their 6th & 7th man defensive roles. Price regardless, as Stecher has not earned any great raise. But is better than those two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, aGENT said: I'd rather keep Pearson thanks. Miller, Pettersson, Virtanen/Boeser Pearson, Horvat, Granlund wouldn't be a bad top 6 heading in to spring. not suggesting trading Pearson, wondering if it's a situation similar to what Pearson went through in Pittsburgh is all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now